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bosch fuel pump
- Thread starter fafnir
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2001
- Location
- Chesterfield Uk
fafnir
You need to re-read the replies as I for one am not saying "we dunno cause its for cars"
Yes it will work........ but for how long or how well is the point we are trying to get across. I have a few of these pumps in my garage and wouldn't ever use one for PC water cooling myself. I work in motorsport and fuel injection pumps are generally quite unreliable in that environment. Regardless of how good "100,000 miles" sounds, that's "normal usage for the purpose it was designed for .......namely fuel transfer..... which is very different to 24/7 circulating the same water.
This is why I suggested getting a cheap second hand one to test with from a scrap yard, you could just set it up in a test loop, (no PC involved), and run it for a few weeks to see how it coped with water running non stop.
That Aquaflow sounds quite good, however its concerning they are shy about the price, and just saying its "quiet" is not very useful if comparing to a lawn mower
You need to re-read the replies as I for one am not saying "we dunno cause its for cars"
Yes it will work........ but for how long or how well is the point we are trying to get across. I have a few of these pumps in my garage and wouldn't ever use one for PC water cooling myself. I work in motorsport and fuel injection pumps are generally quite unreliable in that environment. Regardless of how good "100,000 miles" sounds, that's "normal usage for the purpose it was designed for .......namely fuel transfer..... which is very different to 24/7 circulating the same water.
This is why I suggested getting a cheap second hand one to test with from a scrap yard, you could just set it up in a test loop, (no PC involved), and run it for a few weeks to see how it coped with water running non stop.
That Aquaflow sounds quite good, however its concerning they are shy about the price, and just saying its "quiet" is not very useful if comparing to a lawn mower
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2002
- Location
- Williamsport, PA
i remember hearing that this wouldn't work because of the nature of fuel pumps. fuel pumps pump in spurts, not constant flow.
also 25PSI in a fuel system is going to be different then 25PSI in a WC kit. i'm willing to bet that a fuel system in a car has much much more volume then what's in a WC setup. that being said, 25psi in a fuel system would be much more in a computer because there's much less volume.
add to that the fact that they're not made to be quiet or even tolerable when it comes to noise output because they're usually partly submerged and mounted underneath lots of metal and the back seat cushions.
also 25PSI in a fuel system is going to be different then 25PSI in a WC kit. i'm willing to bet that a fuel system in a car has much much more volume then what's in a WC setup. that being said, 25psi in a fuel system would be much more in a computer because there's much less volume.
add to that the fact that they're not made to be quiet or even tolerable when it comes to noise output because they're usually partly submerged and mounted underneath lots of metal and the back seat cushions.
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
even if the pump is good for 100,000 miles that brakes down like this
100,000 / 60 (miles per hour) / 24 (hours per day) = 69.44 ... days.
lets say it makes it to 100 days, thats still more the 3 per year, and by then you have paid for a good ehiem, and keep in mind that they most likely not last that long, because they are not designed for 24.7 operation.
100,000 / 60 (miles per hour) / 24 (hours per day) = 69.44 ... days.
lets say it makes it to 100 days, thats still more the 3 per year, and by then you have paid for a good ehiem, and keep in mind that they most likely not last that long, because they are not designed for 24.7 operation.
- Joined
- May 27, 2002
- Location
- Purdue University, IN
I agree with the need for more pressure in a watercooling system but we really cant use something that was never meant to push what we are using. Fuel pumps use the fuel as a lubricant and the water just wont provide the lubrication needed. Someone here tried a home heating pump, meant for 24/7 usage and have amazing head, and got good results. Personally I think you are better off trying a high end home heating pump that has like 20m head atleast. You will be happier because it will last longer and is proven to pump water not fuel.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2003
- Location
- I AM CANADIAN
well in my days as a mechanic i always wnet to NAPA auto parts.. if they didnt have it 99% of the time they could get it in.. tha tis a good fuel pump by the way..nice equipmentfafnir said:
anyone know where to get one of these things thats a bit smaller than the $200 5 bar version pictured?
http://www.boschautoparts.co.uk/pcPump1.asp?c=2&d=1
- Thread Starter
- #27
oh no, i'm not coming at you BladeRunner, the post wasn't directed at you, but just in general, but yeah, your post was one of the things i was looking for,
i'll go ahead and take ur advice on trying one of these out first, but otherwise seriously, don't you also want *MORE* pressure?!?
i'll go ahead and take ur advice on trying one of these out first, but otherwise seriously, don't you also want *MORE* pressure?!?
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2001
- Location
- Chesterfield Uk
Unfortunately its far more complex overall than just more pressure. More specifically directed pressure on the CPU area maybe, but again it depends on so many variables. You see, say for arguments sake I'm proved wrong and the fuel pump works fine giving good flow and pressure, but a side effect is more heat, the results overall could be higher temps anyway.
It's been proven now almost without any doubt that any given waterblock will perform better with more flow up to the saturation point of its design or flow characteristics. More pressure would probably only help an impingement block design by an easily measurable amount, but like said there are so many real world variables, and in theory too much pressure could also create heat, although I think keeping things from exploding would happen long before that.
From my experience of those types of pumps, (using fuel which is thinner than water), they keep good pressure in a fuel line but when run unrestricted are not high flow, so you'd possibly be substituting pressure for flow.
By all means test one, just don't throw money at a new one, find a cheap one in a scrapper and do some tests, if you were UK based I'd send you one I have here.
I've e-mailed that company about a price on the Aquaflow btw and will post it here if they reply.
It's been proven now almost without any doubt that any given waterblock will perform better with more flow up to the saturation point of its design or flow characteristics. More pressure would probably only help an impingement block design by an easily measurable amount, but like said there are so many real world variables, and in theory too much pressure could also create heat, although I think keeping things from exploding would happen long before that.
From my experience of those types of pumps, (using fuel which is thinner than water), they keep good pressure in a fuel line but when run unrestricted are not high flow, so you'd possibly be substituting pressure for flow.
By all means test one, just don't throw money at a new one, find a cheap one in a scrapper and do some tests, if you were UK based I'd send you one I have here.
I've e-mailed that company about a price on the Aquaflow btw and will post it here if they reply.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
- Location
- Central PA
A couple notes...
First of all, to use a fuel pump for water only, you'll need an additive to act as a lubricant. Redline has such a product but I don't recall its name (and no, its not WW). My buddy is working on using a Bosch CIS fuel pump for water injection in his turbocharged 320 project. He's the one who called up Redline and got the low down. Feel free to call them yourself.
Secondly, with pumps, the more pressure you output, the less flow there is. I don't know anything about computer water cooling, but I can assure you that high psi equals low flow. I would definitely run a pressure regulator with something like that.
Thirdly, if you really want a high psi, high flow pump for cheap, look for CIS cars in your junkyard. Keep in mind that these things are nowhere near silent. As for amperage, they generally draw about 5 amps or so. Most cars use a 10amp fuse for the fuel pump. Undervolting them increases pump whine generally.
Anybody try RV pumps? I know some WI guys use them. Seriously, use your resources and find out what people in other circles use. WI guys use water or methanol or a mix there of, so what works for them, probably stands a chance to work for you.
Mark
First of all, to use a fuel pump for water only, you'll need an additive to act as a lubricant. Redline has such a product but I don't recall its name (and no, its not WW). My buddy is working on using a Bosch CIS fuel pump for water injection in his turbocharged 320 project. He's the one who called up Redline and got the low down. Feel free to call them yourself.
Secondly, with pumps, the more pressure you output, the less flow there is. I don't know anything about computer water cooling, but I can assure you that high psi equals low flow. I would definitely run a pressure regulator with something like that.
Thirdly, if you really want a high psi, high flow pump for cheap, look for CIS cars in your junkyard. Keep in mind that these things are nowhere near silent. As for amperage, they generally draw about 5 amps or so. Most cars use a 10amp fuse for the fuel pump. Undervolting them increases pump whine generally.
Anybody try RV pumps? I know some WI guys use them. Seriously, use your resources and find out what people in other circles use. WI guys use water or methanol or a mix there of, so what works for them, probably stands a chance to work for you.
Mark
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2001
- Location
- Chesterfield Uk
Aquaflow Pump 12V, 6A, MK3 (Reference 07700)
This product retails at £46.75 + VAT. Please visit our website on
www.aqua-marine.co.uk for details of a dealer in your area.
Regards Sales
This product retails at £46.75 + VAT. Please visit our website on
www.aqua-marine.co.uk for details of a dealer in your area.
Regards Sales
Cheers for that one BLaderunner.
£46.75 +VAT doesn't that make it less than a swiftech, I wonder how it is for heat and noise though?
Are pumps like fans could i undervolt it if needed? or will there be some kind of minimum voltage it requires to work?
£46.75 +VAT doesn't that make it less than a swiftech, I wonder how it is for heat and noise though?
Are pumps like fans could i undervolt it if needed? or will there be some kind of minimum voltage it requires to work?
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2001
- Location
- Chesterfield Uk
It's not a bad price lets hope it's as good as it sounds. 6 amps is a fair draw, but it will need some power to get those great specs. I can't remember exactly off the top of my head but thats probably similar to running an 80 watt TEC @ 12v. (a 220watt tec I had took 22 amps @ 13.8v). A decent 400 watt or above PSU should have no problem, although it might run hotter.
Undervolting should be possible but may damage it, depends on the motor type I guess. I see you are UK NE....... I'm in Chesterfield atm btw
Undervolting should be possible but may damage it, depends on the motor type I guess. I see you are UK NE....... I'm in Chesterfield atm btw
Can you help explain why undervolting the pump can damage it as my knowledge is fairly limited. I thought it undervolting makes the pump run below spec but would therefore produce less heat and noise if those are an issue. As thats what i was planning, it has great specs but i don't need pump that powerful so being able to undervolt it would be useful say like 7v but if thats means damaging it then i probably don't want to do that. I can always check at the shop.
Chesterfield eh? near Sheffield pretty near to me then i'm in York atm.
Chesterfield eh? near Sheffield pretty near to me then i'm in York atm.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2001
- Location
- Chesterfield Uk
Round the corner from each other then on a global scale but "talking" via a US forum....... weird world
It's probably unlikely but some DC motors are voltage specific and not designed for lower rotation. If it has carbon brushes they can wear more or arc, but I'd doubt it would be an issue with this pump, just avoid running it near stall point. It was just a general comment, and I have no Idea what type of motor it has.
As mentioned generally in this topic, when you use anything for a task it wasnt designed for or use it out of its specific specs there are possible risks that it may wear quicker or fail earlier.
If it doesn't mention on the box about lower voltage being ok, best to ask the company if you want to be 100% sure, just say you may want to vary the flow so will the pump be ok with 7v to 12V.
One thing, don't run it at 7v from your PC PSU using the 7v trick as 6 amps draw will more than likely be to much.
It's probably unlikely but some DC motors are voltage specific and not designed for lower rotation. If it has carbon brushes they can wear more or arc, but I'd doubt it would be an issue with this pump, just avoid running it near stall point. It was just a general comment, and I have no Idea what type of motor it has.
As mentioned generally in this topic, when you use anything for a task it wasnt designed for or use it out of its specific specs there are possible risks that it may wear quicker or fail earlier.
If it doesn't mention on the box about lower voltage being ok, best to ask the company if you want to be 100% sure, just say you may want to vary the flow so will the pump be ok with 7v to 12V.
One thing, don't run it at 7v from your PC PSU using the 7v trick as 6 amps draw will more than likely be to much.
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #37
well, hows this, found404, would ya mind testing it and then tell me what you think, and then if its good i'll get one too, and meanwhile i'm gonna go try the fuel pump, and i'll post back on how thats going and all
sound good?
sound good?
fafnir I will look in to it and ask around at the shop although i can't go look at it till next week and i think i will ring to see if they have one in before going. But if it looks good i will i will definately give it a go as it seems perfect for my external box project.
Yeah very weird Bladerunner.
Do you mean that with the 7v fan trick 6a is too much with my psu loaded with other stuff as well? Because i have an old power supply that has an on off switch for At boards i think i am planning on using. The output sticker says 5v 10a and 12v 4a, so to just run a fan and the pump i think it should be ok? With all this said i don't even know if i can undervolt the pump yet.
Anyway i will keep you guys posted on my progress.
Yeah very weird Bladerunner.
Do you mean that with the 7v fan trick 6a is too much with my psu loaded with other stuff as well? Because i have an old power supply that has an on off switch for At boards i think i am planning on using. The output sticker says 5v 10a and 12v 4a, so to just run a fan and the pump i think it should be ok? With all this said i don't even know if i can undervolt the pump yet.
Anyway i will keep you guys posted on my progress.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2003
- Location
- Indiana
Undervolting will budn the motor up due to the much higher current. Put VERY simply, the volts do the work and the amps provide the current or flow. If the volts drop then flow increases and most windings in a motor (or any other electromechanical device) are designed to only take so much current.
A low battery in a car that's sat in storage and the batteries dropped to say 1 volt, can actually cause the car to catch on fire due to the very high current that the wirings not designed to take.
As for automotive fuel pumps, I've used quite a few high performance pumps in my years of racing and have yet to see one that didn't have rubber and steel inside somewhere exposed to the fuel. Water would destroy that type of rubber and obviously would corrode the steel.
Plus water and fuel are very different viscosities, makes a big diff on the pumps abilities. Water would probably strain a fuel pump too much and shorten it's life even further.
A low battery in a car that's sat in storage and the batteries dropped to say 1 volt, can actually cause the car to catch on fire due to the very high current that the wirings not designed to take.
As for automotive fuel pumps, I've used quite a few high performance pumps in my years of racing and have yet to see one that didn't have rubber and steel inside somewhere exposed to the fuel. Water would destroy that type of rubber and obviously would corrode the steel.
Plus water and fuel are very different viscosities, makes a big diff on the pumps abilities. Water would probably strain a fuel pump too much and shorten it's life even further.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Location
- North America
A couple of thoughts ...
The Bosch pump in the Hydrocool is not a washer pump, actually it is a water recirculating pump used for auxiliarly heater heating of the car interior ... it is good for about 5 psi, I think.
There are problems with using a fuel pump for water cooling, the first of which somebody mentioned is that it probably is not compatible with a water mix (not for very long, in any case). Also, depending on where it is used in the fuel system, the pressure may be too high and the flow too low. If it simply feeds fuel from the gas tank to the fuel injection pump, it may produce 10 - 25 psi, which may be OK, but also may make your system leak, or worse. If it is an all-in-one pump to feed the fuel injection system directly, it may develop something like 125 psi ... it would probably blow your power supply fuse first, but if not, then you would likley blow-up the weakest link in your water cooling loop. Good luck and be careful!
KK
The Bosch pump in the Hydrocool is not a washer pump, actually it is a water recirculating pump used for auxiliarly heater heating of the car interior ... it is good for about 5 psi, I think.
There are problems with using a fuel pump for water cooling, the first of which somebody mentioned is that it probably is not compatible with a water mix (not for very long, in any case). Also, depending on where it is used in the fuel system, the pressure may be too high and the flow too low. If it simply feeds fuel from the gas tank to the fuel injection pump, it may produce 10 - 25 psi, which may be OK, but also may make your system leak, or worse. If it is an all-in-one pump to feed the fuel injection system directly, it may develop something like 125 psi ... it would probably blow your power supply fuse first, but if not, then you would likley blow-up the weakest link in your water cooling loop. Good luck and be careful!
KK
