Can I run 1 DIMM until I can afford a second?

[Browseruk]

I currently run 2x4GB DDR4-2132 (1066 MHz). Need to upgrade.

I'm wondering if I can purchase 1 16GB (eg. Crucial RAM CT16G4DFRA266 16 GB DDR4 2666 MHz CL19 ) now, and another later?

Thanks.

 

[BugFreak]

Welcome to the forums. Sure you can. I'm running one stick on my remote office machine daily and have been for about a year now. Depending on what you are doing with it you might not even notice.

Unless you need it asap I would save up to buy the set though.

 

[Browseruk]

Depending on what you are doing with it you might not even notice.

Could you elaborate on that a litte please?
Ie.
What would I have to be doing in order to notice?
What would I notice?

Unless you need it asap I would save up to buy the set though.

I really do need it now. I'm running CAD and even my simple models are moving me into swapping. (They are also generating page faults at a stupid rate, but I think that's because they are using MS malloc; but that's a different story.)

And as a retired programmer who's pension doesn't kick in for another couple of years, its not so much a case of "saving up", as deciding what else not to spend my very limited income on this month.

Thanks, Buk

 

[EarthDog]

It may effect CAD. Not sure. I'd imagine it would depending on the size and scope of the project. What that is specifically, no idea. Why not 2x8GB instead of 1x16? You get the same capacity and dual channel that you're supposed to run with.

What is your system specs in the first place? That RAM stick you want to buy is slow and with higher CL latency.

For example you can get thjs... $80 2x8gb ddr4 3000 - https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

[Browseruk]

Why not 2x8GB instead of 1x16? You get the same capacity and dual channel that you're supposed to run with.

Because I eventually want to expand to 2x16GB, but don't want to get there via 2x8GB, only to throw them (as well as my existing 2x4GB) away in a couple of months.

What is your system specs in the first place?

AMD A10-9700 RADEON R7 -- never gonna set the gaming world on fire

That RAM stick you want to buy is slow and with higher CL latency.

For example you can get thjs... $80 2x8gb ddr4 3000 - https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

My first priority is to avoid swapping, thus I need more rather than faster -- that alone will speed things up hugely.

If I understand the numbers soup correctly, at 1333.33MHz -- 21333.33MB/s, the module I listed above is already a significant jump up from my existing 2x4GB at 1066MHz -- 17066.67MB/s. For my use, latency is less of a consideration.

I'm a non-gaming old fart, I've no need for RAD packaging or rainbow leds (Hell, I'm still trying to find a way to disable the leds in the fan on this machine, being surrounded by an eery blue glow may be very cool, but it plays havoc with your sleep cycles.)

 

[EarthDog]

Why throw them away? Why not add the same kit down the road when you need it.

With an APU, you aren't setting CAD on fire either, my friend. Can you please list the rest of your system? Power supply, gpu, etc.

I'm trying to get you more capacity the most performant and least expensive way possible. CAD uses the GPU and I'd guess you don't have a discrete GPU. Assuming that thought is correct, you want faster RAM too as the integrated graphics on the APU uses system RAM. The faster it is (and in some cases more) the better that iGPU performs.

I understand budget is a primary concern, but you can get 16GB of DUAL channel and faster RAM for the same price as your single stick. Respectfully, IMO, you aren't looking at it right. When you need more, buy a second kit just like it. Simple. The kit I linked was just an example. You can look up 2x8GB DDR4 2933 kits without RGB at Newegg or your vendor of choice.

 

[JLK03F150]

We need to know if the motherboard has 2 slots or 4 slots for RAM. If there are 4 slots, buying 2x8 now, then adding 2x8 later is the best option. If there are only 2 slots a 1x16 now, then another matching 1x16 later is the way to go.

 

[Browseruk]

You hit the nail on the head. The motherboard only has two slots.

Why throw them away? Why not add the same kit down the road when you need it.

Only two DIMM slots.

With an APU, you aren't setting CAD on fire either, my friend.

GPU (Radeon RX 550 4GB GDDR5) ordered and on its way.

Can you please list the rest of your system? Power supply, gpu, etc.

AMD A10-9700 in AM4 socket on a GigaByte A320M-S2H-CF motherboard. 500W power supply.

I'm trying to get you more capacity the most performant and least expensive way possible. CAD uses the GPU and I'd guess you don't have a discrete GPU. Assuming that thought is correct, you want faster RAM too as the integrated graphics on the APU uses system RAM. The faster it is (and in some cases more) the better that iGPU performs.

I understand budget is a primary concern, but you can get 16GB of DUAL channel and faster RAM for the same price as your single stick. Respectfully, IMO, you aren't looking at it right. When you need more, buy a second kit just like it. Simple. The kit I linked was just an example. You can look up 2x8GB DDR4 2933 kits without RGB at Newegg or your vendor of choice.

Only 2 DIMM sockets!

 

[EarthDog]

Only two DIMM slots.

Which is why I asked for system specifications that include your motherboard... hard to know that if we don't have the info. Consider a majority of motherboards have four slots in the first place.

GPU (Radeon RX 550 4GB GDDR5) ordered and on its way.

That's better than the integrated, surely.

Only 2 DIMM sockets!

We're good here, but not mind readers. Thank you for sharing the information we asked for.

I still suggest buying a 2933/3200 stick with a lot lower CL rating. Latency and bandwidth go hand in hand.

In short, yes, you can use a single stick (read the manual for which slot to stick it in), though you're likely leaving performance on the table. How much in your specific use case, I don't know.

 

[JLK03F150]

I did a little looking around at AMD graphic drivers & it seems they have a Radeon™ Pro Software for Enterprise instead of the standard Win10 Radeon gaming driver. That should hopefully help give you a boost in CAD as well.

What got me looking was I remembered years ago you could flash an nvidia Geforce video card with a Quadro BIOS. It is nice AMD just created a driver so we don't have to risk bricking a new video card to convert it to a pro series card.

Please keep us updated on your upgrade progress.

 

[Browseruk]

Oh dear. Here I go again.

I originally tried to run Windows 10 in a VirtualBox under linux. I attempted to install the Drivers (to pursuade W10 to recognise there was a GPU, if only a meager integrated one) using their 'Auto-Detect and Install', but despite that CPU-Z, SystemInfo, and a bunch of other software could recognise that they were running on an AMD processor (from within the virtualBox VM) their software steadfastly refused to even recognise that the CPU was AMD.

Fast forward 1 year + of email to-and-fro with their support guys and, the only solution was to install W10 native if I wanted the iGPU to be seen.

Bottrom line: thanks for pointing out the Enterprise Pro stuff. Hopefully that won't come with the MegaGigs of crap (that I have no interest in and will nevr use) that their Adrenalin package installs.

(You youngun's won't get this) but when did installing a driver start requiring 2GB+ of disk space and require I concent to having everything I do on my PC logged to a remote server somewhere?

More to the point. When did the underdog -- and enthusiasts favorite -- start acting like their sworn enemy, The OverLord (I Not Troubled for Enthusiasts Love?) And why?

 

[Browseruk]

Which is why I asked for system specifications that include your motherboard... hard to know that if we don't have the info. Consider a majority of motherboards have four slots in the first place.

We're good here, but not mind readers.

FTR:

The reason I asked "1-DIMM-until-I-can-afford-a-second", not "Can I run 3 dimms until I can afford 4", is because *I know" my MB only has two slots.

You do not need to be a mind reader to answer my question. You only need to answer the question asked, and not feel the need to extend the scope to a question that was not asked.

I still suggest buying a 2933/3200 stick with a lot lower CL rating. Latency and bandwidth go hand in hand.

The trouble with that is:

1) I cannot afford the premium such items carry.
2) In any case, most (every that I have seen) 3200 DIMMs require 1.35v; but (TTBOMK) my system only provides 1.2v.
3) The CL rating of the 3200 sticks I've looked at are little or no better than that of the the 2400 sticks I am considering. ie. CL 18 -v- CL 19. (but with a 2x to 5x higher cost.)
4) I did not ask for advice on what to purchase; only on whether running 1x16B was viable until I could afford 2x16GB.

In short, yes, you can use a single stick (read the manual for which slot to stick it in), though you're likely leaving performance on the table. How much in your specific use case, I don't know.

The "performance on the table" is single channel -v- dual channel. Essentially, half the speed, but I knew this when I asked my question.

The only thing I did not know was whether my machine would work with only a single DIMM installed; which sis why I askd my question.

You eventually answered that question, and thankyou for that; and please do not feel agrieved by the above. Just understand that sometimes, the question asked, is the only question that needs to be answered.

 

[EarthDog]

Apologies for being thorough in order to give the best advice I could. I didn't mean to feed ya water from a fire hose..

Edit: as far as your questions...
1. Got it. Budget limited.
2. Your board will supply 1.35V to the sticks when it needs to. If the memory requires it, setting XMP/DOCP/AXMP will set up the voltage and timings for you if it isn't programmed in JEDEC.
3. Right.. but 2400 should have a lot lower CL for the speed...14 or so. A "sweetspot" is 3200 CL14/16. Above that is considered slower. 2400 CL18 is hjgh CL for the speed. If you can't/choose not to get the faster sticks,, no problem. I simply put it out on the table...buffet style. What you choose to eat is up to you. Nobody is force feeding ya so much as they were giving a big picture view.
4. Your manual tells you that... and since it does/is pretty elementary, is partly why I dug a bit deeper to make sure you were aware of the results of that decision. Most asking this kind of question don't know.

Anyway, please keep us posted on the results of your new stick! Love to see some 1:1 comparisons of before and after. Wondering if removing the paging out issue (do you have an ssd?) versus moving to single channel how that will work out. I'd imagine you'll still end up ahead.

 

[Browseruk]

Anyway, please keep us posted on the results of your new stick!

It finally arrived and I installed the new 16GB stick along with one of the original 4GB sticks.

Result: 20GB of ram of which 8GB (4GB dimm + 4GB of 16GB) appears to be ruinning as dual data rate:

https://imgur.com/4g1MCfi

I don't know of a simple way to confirm that (8GB running a dual data rate)?

In any case, avoiding my CAD models being swapped to SSD makes a HUGE difference.

Again, I don't have any easy way of demonstrating the difference, but it is really noticable when navigating the model,
or performing exensive operations like tesselating a complex model.

 

[Mr.Scott]

Yes you're running dual channel.
Dual channel wasn't the problem though, lack of quantity was.

 

[JLK03F150]

Glad to see you're getting good results by avoiding the swap file.
Dual channel has been able to work with mis-matched sticks for many generations now. Years ago I had a Core 2 notebook (with a 32bit O/S) running dual channel memory with 2GB & 1GB modules.

 

[Browseruk]

Glad to see you're getting good results by avoiding the swap file.
Dual channel has been able to work with mis-matched sticks for many generations now. Years ago I had a Core 2 notebook (with a 32bit O/S) running dual channel memory with 2GB & 1GB modules.

It's a shame that information is so hard to come by. This is the response I got from Crucial tech support:

Thank you for contacting Crucial. In response to your query, we would like to inform you that when two non identical RAMs are installed in system, the system will choose to run at speed which is lowest among both RAMs. Like wise the system will only consider the lower density i.e. if a 4GB and 16GB RAMs are installed together the system will consider it to be 2 4GB RAMs. This error is called mix match error.

I'm really happy with my decision to buy 1x16GB now. I have the same 8GB I had running at the same speed + 12GB more running more slowly, but still a darn sight faster than swapping to ssd. And the ssd (recently repurposed from a TV) gives me an effective memory capacity of upto 64GB; albeit with pregnant pauses.

Now if only I could get the system to use my new gpu, I'd be really happy.

 

[EarthDog]

And the ssd (recently repurposed from a TV) gives me an effective memory capacity of upto 64GB; albeit with pregnant pauses.

I thought you were trying to avoid swapping to the slower SSD?

Flex Mode (at the bottom): https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005657/boards-and-kits.html#flex

 

[Browseruk]

I thought you were trying to avoid swapping to the slower SSD?

That is my goal; and for the most part I now can. My CAD project is BIG; but is broken up into a bunch of sub assemblies that I work on individually.
However, occasionally, I like to load up the main project and get an overview of the whole thing; and that currently requires just under 30GB if I pull in everything.

I've never been able to do that before, but now I can.

Flex Mode (at the bottom): https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005657/boards-and-kits.html#flex

Thanks for this. I looked and looked for an authoratative source for this information, but barring a couple of mentions in chats and blogs, found nothing.