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Did Microsoft deliberately RootKit everyones computer to allow spying by the NSA, CIA

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Ascii2

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Did Microsoft deliberately RootKit everyones computer to allow spying by the NSA, CIA

I found the article at http://www.prognosisx.com/cgi-bin/c...?database=JanEE.db&command=viewone&id=82&op=r to be interesting. The article is quoted below.

The story as we understand it so far is this : Steve Gibson was curious about why Microsoft was not releasing a patch for the earlier versions of Windows to remedy the WMF vulnerability. MS had stated in their Technical Bulletin that they saw no need to patch the older Windows operating system because the WMF 'vulnerability' didn't affect those OS's. Steve wanted to check this out and did a little research on the patch issued by MS, visited the hacker web sites that explained how to exploit the vulnerability and with a few test machines configured with the older OS's he found that he could not find a way to trigger the vulnerability. At this point his findings agreed with MS. .

On further examination of the recent versions of the Microsoft operating systems, Steve found that there was a function call in the Microsoft code that had absolutely nothing to do with the graphics. It in fact was more closely related to a function call for stopping a printing job. On even closer examination it was found that by submitting the digit of " 1 " to this function call you were able to a remote code execution - better known as a 'backdoor'.

Steve is playing down any direct accusations at whether Microsoft had intentionally put this 'backdoor' into all the latter versions of the Microsoft operating systems. Theories from begun to surface from some security pundits that suggest Microsoft may have 'deliberately' placed this backdoor in their code as a means of allowing the NSA, CIA or FBI or just about any law enforcement agency to gain full access to ANY computer on the Internet running these latter versions of the Microsoft operating system.

Also being suggested by some pundits is the theory that one of the Microsoft 'code serfs' may have planted this code for purely innocent purposes during the code development stages ( and it simply was forgotten about ) or that it was put in there deliberately by one of the MS code slaves for a more malicious purpose.

Either way... Steve has now opened a tempest of questions that will now need to be resolved. You can't simply raise the spectre of global spying and hidden rootkits planted by Microsoft without either proving or disproving the allegation. If you cannot trust Microsoft than what can you do ? And if there was 'one' hidden rootkit than what is there to say that there is not a 'second' or 'third' fail safe hidden rootkit - as a safeguard should one be discovered or exposed ? With the recently revealed 'deliberately installed rootkits' found in Sony DVD products, and now the latest allegations that Symantec and Kaspersky have also been planting rootkits in their products, it leaves you to wonder if this is all just a little too coincidental..

What theories do the OCForums members have about the topic of the article?
 
Short of the US Govt decreeing that Microsoft insert a backdoor, I can't see it happening. After all, imagine the backlash from countries other than the US when they discover their networks are all vulnerable to the US Govt and any half-intellegent hackers.

The loss of income and contracts would be huge. One would most likely see the same thing happen within the US itself.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory. As much as I hate Microsoft software, I really don't believe they are that stupid. It will just be another piece of poor coding on Microsofts part.
 
IMO i dont think that this is the case, microsoft doesnt deliberatly make bad products, they are just very bad at making secure products... like ford are bad at making good cars ;)
 
gorilly said:
IMO i dont think that this is the case, microsoft doesnt deliberatly make bad products, they are just very bad at making secure products... like ford are bad at making good cars ;)
Precisely. Except Microsoft doesn't have a GM to make it look good, like Ford does...
 
Now to me if this backdoor was installed there for law enforcement agencies to gain access to your system, I woudl think that the computer crime labs would be using this rather then spending thousands of dollars on hardware and software to backup and search for things like child porn. When I was in school for my BAchelors in Computer Security one of my teachers was part of a Cybercrime taskforce, believe me if there was a backdoor like this to use to make things like catching child porn offenders easier they would use it.
 
Ascii2 said:
If you cannot trust Microsoft than what can you do ?
Solved that problem a long time ago. Open source software doesn't have this issue. You don't have to implicitly trust the programmers if you can read their work. Theoretically, hundreds, thousands, or even millions of eyes are watching the code, so back doors, although possible, would not get far. For large projects, like Mozilla or Apache, there are huge numbers of people developing it, and huge numbers of people tweaking it on their own.. stuff like this would never get far before getting seen. Major distros backport new patches to old versions, and it would get discovered quickly. If it does get out, anyone with a little knowledge can remove it, and put out a patch so others can remove it.

Plus, IMHO, Steve's an idiot, blows everything out of proportion to sell his security products. I'm sure he'll be putting out a vulnerability scanner for this in a day or two, and selling a program that fixes it.
 
Exactly how is this a rootkit? This seems different to me than the Sony BMG and the root kits from the ani-viri companies like Kasperskey.
 
I think we're not talking about a rootkit, but a backdoor. And under a law that I believed failed (The Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act) there were supposed to be a bunch of backdoors to help law enforcement, hopefully with a warrant, do their jobs. How much sense does it make, in this day and age of terror, to build security holes in stuff that runs the country's infrastructure? (It doesn't.)

To give you an idea of how powerful Microsoft really is, Chinese President Hu Jintao landed in Seattle the other day. Now, normally, you'd expect visiting heads of state to have dinner with the President and the State Department first, but not this time--they had dinner with 100 guests at the Bill/Melinda residence on Lake Washington. So I suppose they're doing the diplomacy now. Smelly. I thought the President was our nation's diplomat, not Microsoft's 'creative chairman'. So if this is true I wouldn't be surprised. Let's face it. Microsoft stood up to the District Court of the United States and really won (the settlement, while in the government's favor, was a slap on the wrist). And they're doing it again through the Intel Viiv program and PlaysForSh-t...erm, I mean WMA PlaysForSure. ;)

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security. Or, put another way, "Liberty may not matter much when you're dead, but neither does security." I'd rather die a free man with my privacy intact than live while being spied on. Play Half-Life 2 and really think about the messages it has.
 
Magilla said:
Short of the US Govt decreeing that Microsoft insert a backdoor, I can't see it happening. After all, imagine the backlash from countries other than the US when they discover their networks are all vulnerable to the US Govt and any half-intellegent hackers.

The loss of income and contracts would be huge. One would most likely see the same thing happen within the US itself.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory. As much as I hate Microsoft software, I really don't believe they are that stupid. It will just be another piece of poor coding on Microsofts part.

I agree :)
 
klingens said:
The "cc hack" was a demonstration (iirc, it was used positively for a while). It was a closed-source hack of CC... if it was open source, people would see the code, thus the point of the hack was to hide it where users couldn't see.

I said "You don't have to implicitly trust the programmers if you can read their work.".. I believe it still stands; as you can't read compiled work. That hack is possible, but not as plausible nowadays.

Back when the CC Hack was originally built and demonstrated (1984, I wonder if this was meant to be a reference to Orwell..), Dennis Ritchie and a few others were the only UNIX admins slash programmers around, and CC was built and handed out by him and his team (of one other person?). There is no way to spread a hack like that as easily as Windows Update nowadays, it would take a lot to poison every binary distribution of GCC, and GCC is only handed out in source from the FSF. That's not to mention that authentication is decentralized in Linux.. usually PAM, but can be shadow, passwd, etc. The whole deal will eventually fall apart when the authentication code is slightly changed, either missing the new code entirely, or breaking it.
 
su root said:
Plus, IMHO, Steve's an idiot, blows everything out of proportion to sell his security products. I'm sure he'll be putting out a vulnerability scanner for this in a day or two, and selling a program that fixes it.

Thats probably what it is, in addition to microsofts bad code
 
su root said:
I said "You don't have to implicitly trust the programmers if you can read their work.".. I believe it still stands; as you can't read compiled work. That hack is possible, but not as plausible nowadays.
I agree with you, but what you said actually fired off a neuron in my head.

The reason open-source dosen't need to be implicietly trusted is that you have access to the code. However, given a decompiler, the same could be said of any software. Admittedly, decompiled code isn't the easiest to read (and decompiling itself is in a legaly grey area what with the DMCA), but then again, who says open-source has to be easy to read? A project with very few devs could have really horrible code and introduce a hard-to-find backdoor fairly easily.

JigPu
 
z0n3 said:
Exactly how is this a rootkit? This seems different to me than the Sony BMG and the root kits from the ani-viri companies like Kasperskey.

By definition, it isn't a rootkit. A rootkit is a foreign piece of software (not part of or included with the OS) that once installed, can mask its' presence from the OS. Other functionallity falls into other areas. The rootkit part of the code interferes with the system calls to do the masking.
 
JigPu said:
The reason open-source dosen't need to be implicietly trusted is that you have access to the code. However, given a decompiler, the same could be said of any software. Admittedly, decompiled code isn't the easiest to read (and decompiling itself is in a legaly grey area what with the DMCA), but then again, who says open-source has to be easy to read? A project with very few devs could have really horrible code and introduce a hard-to-find backdoor fairly easily.
I've never actually seen anything decompiled, no-one I know has ever bothered.. the only real reason for decompiling is to reveal the source to rip off & duplicate ("R&D").. but yeah, you could decompile windows and all of the programs you run under windows, and their libraries and look for back doors if you like.. I'm sure there are people out there already doing this.

I've seen my share of bad programming, not to mention that there's obfuscators out there to make the job harder. Bad programming tends to even itself out... any popular app will gather contributors and hackers. People won't contribute to a horribly coded app, they would just start up their own project, or spend the time de-horrifying the app... nobody wants to program on top of a foundation of garbage.
 
I was hoping the read some conpiracy theories about this topic (and some off topic) from here.
 
Ascii2 said:
What theories do the OCForums members have about the topic of the article?


The story as we understand it so far is this : Steve Gibson was curious

At this point I stopped reading !!!! Steve Gibson :bang head

Steve Gibson often is referred to as being a "Security Expert", yet one has to see his appearances on *real* security boards/interviews/gatherings. Where was Steve Gibson at Defcon/BlackHat Conference ? Why doesn't he comment/ on Bugtraq or other Security Focus mailing lists ?
The answer is quite simple: he would get nailed down by arguments and facts from real security experts in less then a minute. These persons tend not to be very impressed by self-proclaimed Security Experts and his obfuscation of the real issues and intentions.

As you can read on his resume page, Gibson worked for years as a marketer "Gibson founded a proprietorship specializing in media advertising and public relations" , and that's what he is really good at.

http://www.grcsucks.com/

Don't believe the hype Gibson Research Centre (GRC) is flawed information - nothing more nothing less
 
Steve Gibson really rattles my cage its like all that BS about 'nanoprobes' in his ShieldsUp security diagnostic tool WTF is a nanoprobe, has anyone heard of one from anywhere else but GRC ?....... The reason is its nothing but a SYN packet

http://www.grc.com/np/np.htm <----- What Gibson thinks a nanoprobe is

http://www.grcsucks.com/nanoprobes.htm <---- Dissecting GRC's NanoProbes

Don't take my word about it, do the tests yourself.... GRC is a joke
 
gorilly said:
IMO i dont think that this is the case, microsoft doesnt deliberatly make bad products, they are just very bad at making secure products... like ford are bad at making good cars ;)


I resent that!!! I am highly offended by that statement! I would like to see anyone in here be able to seriously scoff at my 83 f-150 with it's I6. Read up on that motor and the c6 trannies. You might have a different tune then.

But on a more serious note. You really cant beat my ford festiva POS. I mean that's a special model. It's a performance machine!
 
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