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E8400 Core Temps

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I was able to update the bios to F3 (I know, I'm astonished too).

Idle Rosetta 100%
TMPIN0 35C 35C
TMPIN1 22C 30C

Idle Rosetta 100%
Core 0 47C 55C
Core 1 35C 41C

+12V is running just over 5V.

:confused:


eta: Stuff on the processor: Q801A290, 2V74808, 5A0567
 
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So, to increase the temperature a little, I unplugged the fan on the heat sink. Temperatures are rising slowly. Case fans to minumum.

Not much change. Temps went up but not by much. Still a significant difference between cores.
 
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According to Intel, this is not a problem with the CPUs. It's an issue with immature BIOS/temp software reading improperly. We've taken returns on chips with this problem, yet when I pop them into our test machine, they work fine.

Still Coretemp can not do anything :(.

Perhaps you guys should start denying people with chips that work.
 
Still Coretemp can not do anything :(.

Perhaps you guys should start denying people with chips that work.

We have to now. I had a case this morning like that. I feel really bad - but so long as the temps are within 74.1 degree (IIRC) there's nothing we can do :(
 
Yes, the monitoring software is not up to speed... especially the voltage monitoring. Terrible actually. I wonder what the reference is?

I am open to suggestions. I am not up to speed on overclocking. Maybe some presets would be helpful.

Sensor movement is 5 on both cores using Real Temp 2.4

Ram: 8GB G.Skill F2-8000CL5 2GBPQ DDR2 1000
Mobo: Gigabyte EX38-DS4
Intel: E8400 3GHz, Q801A290, 2V74808, 5A0567
Themalright Ultima 90 w/92mm fan.
ATI Radeon (Gigabyle) H3870
Monitor: To be determined
PCP&C PSU 610W
Samsung DVD Writer
Multi card reader

Thanks everyone for the help. I certainly appreciate all the input and suggestions.

ms
 
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Maybe you should update your bios...

Regards,
Abang_apy

lol my BIOs are at its most recent version, thank you for the suggestion though. However with a little research, I think you'll find this is not infact a BIOs issue.

The fact of the matter is none of these E8400 chips idle hot at all, but they often will report high idle temperatures incorrectly. This causes people to panic thinking they either didn't install the cooler properly (which is always a possibility I might add) or that they have a "bad chip".

This is unfortunate however because it can all be avoided.

First off, ignore BIOs CPU temperature. You have 2 (or 4!) core temps now remember, 1 all encompassing "CPU" temp isn't an accurate representation of those 2 core temperatures.

Secondly, because the core temp is measured by how close the chip is from shutting down or throttling, this means the temperatures get less accurate as they move away from the Tjunction Max. The Tjunction max is a vital peice of the formula, but Intel does not release the tjunction max for its desktop or server CPUs.

Coretemp and Everest use 105C, but Realtemp uses 95C and is more likely to be correct.

One last thing that will give a false temp measurment, a stuck sensor. Realtemp has a test to test for a stuck sensor, many 45nm CPUs have stuck sensors in the idle range. Good news is they unstuck as the CPU gets hotter and become more accurate.

The sensors do work pretty well for load temps, which is really the only time it matters.
 
Well, I'm still at it.
SpeedFan and (CPUID TMPIN0 and TMPIN1) list my temps at 38C for both cores. I am running 3.400.2 GHz on the processor (CPU-Z) now with the Rosetta Program going full tilt. RealTemp shows me at 55C for Core 0 and 44C for Core 1. SpeedFan and CPUID are both still giving me erroneous voltage readings. The bios voltage readings are stable and very much in the correct range. RealTemp Sensor movement just now was 7 for both cores after turning off Rosetta for a few seconds. CPU-Z has a core voltage as 1.328V.
SpeedFan gives Vcore voltages as 1.33 and 2.13 volts.

All I can say is there is a lot of disparity between the programs. I can't see where any of them are useable at least by me on this motherboard at this time. I have re-seated the heatsink three times in different orientations and the readings have not changed at all. I think I'll attempt to go to about
3.6GHz and see what happens. I am not knowledgeable enough to do the manual voltage adjustments so I am using the multiplier as you might guess.
So far it is doing ok in spite of the failure of the monitoring programs.

More later.

Thanks again to everyone. This is fun in a way but just a little... so far.

ms
 
Now running at 3.6002GHz. Not much change. RealTemp is at 52C and 41C. CPUID is 63C and 53C. hmmmmmmmm There's that pesky 10C difference... Next stop somewhere above 3.6.
 
CPU-Z says I'm at 3825.0GHz. Started that last night and ran it all day so far today. Not a hiccup. Core 0 is 54C and Core 1 is 43C (RealTemp). CPUID says 64C & 53C again all with Rosetta running at 100%. I guess I can't complain about an almost 30% increase in performance. Perhaps this evening I'll see if I can get 4GHz with the Ultima 90 heat sink.
I will also use the other program to stress the CPUs.

More later,
Thanks again to everyone,
ms
 
4.050GHz. Ho hum. 60C on realtemp for Core 0 and 48C for Core 1. Still using Rosetta at 100%.
 
According to Intel, this is not a problem with the CPUs. It's an issue with immature BIOS/temp software reading improperly. We've taken returns on chips with this problem, yet when I pop them into our test machine, they work fine.

Hopefully intel was speaking of cpu temps, which are indeed dependent on bios calibration. It would be very disappointing if intel stated core temp problems on the E8400 were either a bios issue or a software issue, as that is false.

The delta to Tjmax/Prochot# (processor hot #) is accurately reported by coretemp, realtemp, speedfan, etc if they are configured to read "delta to tjmax". They are all accurately reading this value directly from the digital output of the DTS on the cores, the bios is irrelevant as is the particular software used to read the value.

It is true the reported absolute temps based on DTS reading will be reported 10C lower by realtemp (guesses tjmax 95 based on fluke measurements) than coretemp/everest/HWM (guesses tjmax 105 because 45nm mobile cpus use tjmax 105, even though intel said that was not correct), ie, absolute temp = tjmax (guessed) - DTS. However the actual DTS reading on cores of mormonsniper's E8400 are showing 10-14C difference between two cores. That is 100% an intel issue.

Either one core was individually calibrated to throttle 10-14C below the other, or more likely one or both of the sensors is no where near the claimed +/-1C accuracy, which is apparently a problem that was magnified when moving to 45nm. Though rarely some of these sensor discrepancies have been reported to improve by reseating or altering heatsink pressure, the vast majority report the exact same temp problems over multiple reseats.

If intel wants to argue DTS are still accurate enough for throttling thus protecting the cpu and that is the only issue, that is their prerogative, but misinforming is not.

As an aside, I dont think the E8400's are limited by temps, as the voltages are likely to be a limiting factor before problem temps are reached.

One can still get approximate temps if use your cpu temp as a guide. And that temp, you will need to update your bios. Then set your E8400 to .9v and 6x200, and calibrate cpu temp at idle in speedfan (latest 4.34 beta not 4.33) to +1 above ambient. Then put back to stock/OC settings and run stress test to get E8400 core temps in higher range where they are usually more accurate, and core temp should now be 1-5C above cpu temp. http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf see figure 5. That way you might figure out which of two core temps is closer to absolute.

Then we will just have to learn to live with some borked core sensors or rely on cpu temps until next upgrade ...at least by time nehalem gets here, hopefully intel will have temp sensor problem fixed, perhaps use the DTS version of something like this...
http://www.national.com/appinfo/tempsensors/trutherm.html
 
Here's the info I got straight from them:

Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Customer Support.

I understand that you are having complains about temperature reading on several Intel(R) processors.

As far as we are concerned no issue or specific errata has been found on these processors families, people on third party websites promote possible bug that actually does not exist, we have proven that the thermal design guide is higher that what other processors used to be, and in most of the cases, motherboard manufacturers and BIOS designers has not endorsed the proper microcode that properly identifies the processor.

Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E8400 as any other of its kind run hotter than what other processors from previous families reach but they are more stable and capable of handing the motherboard specifications.

To check the maximum recommended temperature of this processors please visit the following website:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/default.aspx

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you need further assistance.
 
Intel is no doubt speaking of cpu temps, not core temps. Not surprising given they always give curt responses on their forum to use cpu temps and not coretemps to get absolute temps. And usually respond in answers for cpu temps, even when inquiring about core temps.

In fact they list in their spec sheets that delta to prochot# is nonlinear and noncalibrated until 20-25 from throttling, and therefore they argue we should not be using core temps for absolute temps. But we were spoiled in the past as that method gave apparently accurate temps.

I can understand intel's irritation. They say use cpu temps, which if you have an updated bios that supports/calibrates cpu diode, and a recent motherboard that is reading cpu diode and not socket sensor, then you should get reasonably accurate cpu temps. Not to mention it is apparently difficult/expensive to employ digital sensors on die that provide linear temps across a broad range that could be used for both absolute temps and throttling temps. And not to mention intel uses tcase, closer to cpu temps, not core temps for specs.

And the customer frustration with in the past poor bios support/updates or mobo socket sensors masking as cpu temps, giving cpu temps a bad name. Then core temps saving the day, and now that 45nm has apparently magnified the nonlinear issue over a broad range....we are back to what to use...

So I guess the enthusiasts vs intel, until we either give up and resign to using delta to tjmax, or intel comes up with some cheap sensors that will report a broad accurate range of temps in 45nm. Or at least report similar inaccuracies on same chip, so we can't tell.
 
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