EKWB material using aluminum even though it says copper?

[Wurzelfritz]

Hi everyone!

My curiosity brought me to have a look inside the SE 240 radiator (https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-coolstream-se-240-slim-dual-5020) inlet and shine a flashlight in it.
Now to me it looks like the water pipes are absolutely not copper. It looks perfectly like aluminum even though it says it should be copper and EKWB answered in an email that it is copper.

According to it, that metal part in the radiator is not ALU or Zinc, but it's only the discoloration from the manufacturing process (Copper) and it's perfectly safe to use it with a Copper loop.
You should be calm now.

Well I'm not. The rest of my loop is nickel and I'm skeptical of copper looking perfectly like alu due to "discoloration".

Does anyone have any ideas/infos or have the same rad?

 

[Blaylock]

It looks more like corrosion to me. I would be extremely surprised if it was anything other than what EK claims it to be, They have always been straight forward on what materials they've used.

 

[Wurzelfritz]

I've never seen copper look that way when it's corroded. I can try to take another picture in the evening - the other pipes next to it look exactly the same all perfectly aluminum/zinc colored.
And by the way - it's new.
(also tried to gently scratch it with a super fine needle in one spot - just more silvery metal underneath as it seems at first glance)

Just so everyone's on the same page - I'm talking about the pipes, not the inlet (which should be and looks like brass)

 

[Johan45]

It's probably covered in solder from the assembly process, if you're really curious and just have to know scrape a bit of paint off one of the pipes and I bet you find copper in there. With their reputation I find it highly unlikely that it's aluminum, not sure they even make an aluminum rad.

 

[Wurzelfritz]

They do offer full-alu kits with alu fittings and blocks now. They are very careful with that and have warnings on their alu components not to mix them with others. So I'm pretty baffled at the moment but don't see a chance that those pipes are actually copper.
I don't see it being solder as well - the pipes next to it look the same and it is inside, outside and as long as i can see through the hole. perfectly looks like alu (f.e.: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15tn..../aluminum-water-pipe-Alloy-tube-6063-6061.png )

Will scratch it on the outside in the evening and check back then. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[wagex]

It is likely corrosion, but corrosion of the soldering compound which I'm sure contains lead, lead when it corrodes turns white, as does tin and other soldering materials. In case you did not know the soldering process will coat quite a bit of the metal with the solder aka sweating the metal and flowing the solder to ensure a proper seal, so it wouldn't be a surprise that all the cooling tubes are coated inside and out on the ends.

 

[Maviryk]

That's what solder looks like. Just by looking at the fins, you can tell it's Copper. They wouldn't mix Copper and Aluminum. Look up some videos on radiator construction.

 

[maxfly]

if you arent sure, cut that bad boy open and check it out! but yeah thats solder.

 

[Wurzelfritz]

Sry for taking so long, well, here's more pictures..

Don't know how far I should keep scratching, but that under the paint is still not copper. The fins as someone pointed out seem to be copper as it even shines through the thin paint. So I scratched the paint off the tubing and it's still completely silvery there.
Why would there still be solder on the pipe on the outside down the rad? And how thick would that solder be that there's no copper coming through after a pretty rough scratching?
And I also attached another shot into the opening where you can see two of the pipes - both perfectly alu colored. I scratched those too for a bit - no copper shining through.

 

[Blaylock]

I have to say Wurzelfritz this is a compelling argument you're making. The doesn't look like copper or solder or corrosion like we've been suspecting. Per the EK site it's supposed to be H90 (90%) copper so researching H90 alloy and this is what I came up with, and it does not look like what you have there.

EDIT: May I ask where you purchased this rad from? EKWB Direct?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/H90-Brass-pipe_60549708201.html

 

[Wurzelfritz]

I bought it at a reputable shop in Austria (mylemon.at)

Don't quite know what's best to do - I guess I'll first phone the store (they will most probably not know what to do), send them the pictures and ask them where they get them from.
I mean - this might be a bigger problem than just an RMA on my side. If it really is aluminum, a lot of people might be affected.

 

[Johan45]

The typical process for soldering fins to tubes has the entire tube covered in solder, the fins are then placed between the tubes once assembeled the whole thing is baked until the solder adheres the fins to the tubes. I'm 100% sure you're barking up the wrong tree Wurzelfritz

 

[Wurzelfritz]

I hope so!

But @Johan45 - what's the point then in having a copper rad, when it is entirely covered (seemingly on the inside too) in tin-lead solder which is galvanically bad too?

only other difference I can spot is the cutout for the screw holes: when I compare them to images i find elsewhere, they are cut differently (convex/concave)

edit: and how thick do you expect the solder to be? I just took a dremel tungsten carbide drill and scratched the inside of the tube inlet, taking away material and still no copper shining through. (i used my fingers holding the drill - not the actual dremel cutting that thing away to avoid spreading metal dust in there)
edit2: did the same on the outside of the tube - still no copper and I'm afraid to go further since the tube is super thin.

 

[Johan45]

Honestly, I'm done here, good luck with getting them to accept an RMA. First and foremost there wouldn't be brass in that Radiator if they had aluminum. Meaning it's all aluminum OR a mix of Brass and Copper, you obviously have the latter. I'm not going to keep trying to convince you.

 

[Wurzelfritz]

How are you so antagonistic?
Up until now all you told me was "it's solder and that's how it should be" and "if you're really curious and just have to know scrape a bit of paint off one of the pipes and I bet you find copper in there." - which I did and I did not find copper - or did I miss anything? How should I be convinced now?

Even in this video, showing the process and the outside of the tubings, you can see the inside of the tubings is copper, since they are, as you say, covered with solder on the outside - but then cut to length.

- even at 2:43 where it's soldered it looks different than what I have here - but hey, I may still be wrong and If i cut deeper I find copper. Might be worth a try

 

[Johan45]

My whole point is, stop fretting about it and just build your cooling loop, I'm not being antagonistic, I just think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. They can't build a rad with aluminum and brass and copper. Your question about the solder, it's typically a mix of tin,copper and silver and isn't goign to effect any type of galvanic corrosion.

 

[Blaylock]

I highly doubt EK will share their process for manufacturing with any of us as I'm sure it's a trade secret. I wouldn't put much weight on that youtube video either since they look to be manufacturing automotive or other non-PC radiator and many automotive rads do utilize aluminium.

I guess the biggest question I have is are you having any issues with this radiator or are you just curious why it looks the way it does? As I mentioned in my first post EKWB is one of the most reputable companies in the PC water cooling field and if they were mixing aluminum and copper in these rads we certainly would have seen a very large number of complaints from the members here and in the many other forums most of us visit regularly.

TL;DR If everything is working fine then everything is fine.

 

[Wurzelfritz]

And as I said - it could well be copper underneath and you're probably right since the chance of it not being copper is probably slim. Up until now it just weirds me out that I scratched it like a moron and I just see silvery reflection. (And holding a soldering iron against it did nothing, but that can very well be due to the thermal conductivity)
I'll keep you posted if it's not copper and I'll also tell you if I made an elephant out of a fly.

@Blaylock - my only suspision ist that, if it actually isn't copper, there is some china seller that produces with alu to save on materials and sells as ekwb. but since that's more in the area of tin(-foil hat theory), I'll stick to "I'm baffled by how it looks and it's probably copper even though all my testing showed otherwise so far

 

[EarthDog]

Reach out to EK with your pictures and ask....

 

[Johan45]

Like I said, it would have to be some serious screw up in the EK factory first to have the wrong tubing in the wrong assembly process (the process would fail BTW so it would never leave the factory because the tubes would leak) secondly EK would never mix brass (copper/tin) or copper with aluminum because of the resulting galvanic corrosion. They are well aware of this phenomenon https://www.ekwb.com/blog/aluminium-vs-copper/
I have no other explanation, other than those already expressed, for the colour of the tubes but I'm certain they are not aluminum.