Europe Windows Xp Will Rule

[The_Jizzler]

i like having it included too, for the same reason. all im sayin is give me the option to get rid IE cleanly and completely once i have my browser of choice.

 

[Zuzzz]

Of course you dont have to use MS stuff that is already bundled but if you choose not to use it you cannot even remove it from taking space on your HD. Let's think about it. Everyone here has an opinion. Each will tell you they prefer a certain program or 'media player'. The point I think is this. If I want to use Netscape why should I have to waste megabytes of space having IE on the system. Since I cant remove it I guess I'll use it. Why waste the space with 2 browsers?? <--- Its this mentality that is used to 'persuade' you the user into using MS stuff. I personally would love to see a stripped down to nothing but the OS and the driver set installed and allow the USER to choose what programs to do what with. I'll be looking forward to seeing just what happens with the UK version comes about. Assuming they dont 'cripple' it.

Z

 

[deRusett]

Of course you dont have to use MS stuff that is already bundled but if you choose not to use it you cannot even remove it from taking space on your HD. Let's think about it. Everyone here has an opinion. Each will tell you they prefer a certain program or 'media player'. The point I think is this. If I want to use Netscape why should I have to waste megabytes of space having IE on the system. Since I cant remove it I guess I'll use it. Why waste the space with 2 browsers?? <--- Its this mentality that is used to 'persuade' you the user into using MS stuff. I personally would love to see a stripped down to nothing but the OS and the driver set installed and allow the USER to choose what programs to do what with. I'll be looking forward to seeing just what happens with the UK version comes about. Assuming they dont 'cripple' it.

Z

I don't think MS will release a UK version with out a media player since this is going to last atleast 3 years in appeal, MS will have the Media player so integrated with Windows that it can't be removed, just like IE,

and you do need IE to do windows Updates, it wont let you use Mozilla, which is understandable, "use our product for our services"


I do agree I would like to see easier ways of uninstalling items I don't want, BUT, I do have the Option of using Linux ( which I do) I would love to beable to easily remove media player, though IE is a nessesity to the OS, since it acts just like explorer, and is the only browser that can access Windows Update, which is the only time I allow IE to connect to the net.


Microsoft is a Big Company, And needs to Obey the laws, BUT I don't believe that Microsoft did anything wrong with Including a Medai player, or a Internet Browser, with there OS, Both of those items are almost a requirement to operate a PC, in this day and age, and there for should be part of an Operating System.

Forcing Microsoft to release Intelectual Property to Competitors is like asking Coke Cola to share its recipy with Pepsi Cola since Coke is slowly taking Marketshare from Pepsi.

If Real Player or Quick time want to Compete they should make a better product, NOT have a good product removed so its easier to get there foot in the door. If I was in the EU I would be writing a letter to the athorites about how angry I am with there ruling.

I would not want to buy and OS with out a Media player, I do not see Real Player or Quick time going after LINDOWS which includes a Media Player ( though not a very good one )

 

[autoMATTic]

don't believe that Microsoft did anything wrong with Including a Medai player, or a Internet Browser, with there OS, Both of those items are almost a requirement to operate a PC, in this day and age, and there for should be part of an Operating System.

Forcing Microsoft to release Intelectual Property to Competitors is like asking Coke Cola to share its recipy with Pepsi Cola since Coke is slowly taking Marketshare from Pepsi.

Thats what I am saying. How can someone tell you that you are to successful and let others make money. Media player and IE are included witht the Windows OS. How can someone tell you how to sell your product.

 

[TheDogFather]

Thats just the way the world is.

We elect Government.

Governments make laws.

Courts inforce the law.

Lack of competition is bad for the consumer.

All these things are fact.

In my opinion and apparantly the EU commisions MS have crossed the line. The lack of competition is not in the consumers interest.

TDF.

 

[rogerdugans]

I'm very interested in seeing the results of the Euro decision.....

Personally, I think that there are a large number of things that people nowadays forget about Microsoft-

They were a small company and had lots of competition at one time.
The best product for the consumer won, as it always does is an open market.

The bad products, problems and lack of choice is all down to M$ and its monopoly.

So take that thought to it's conclusion: who enabled Microsoft to achieve the market dominance and monopoly they now have?
Consumers.

Anybody who ever bought a computer with Windows pre-installed or the plain operating system itself.

No individual is FORCED to buy a windows computer- there are and have been many viable alternatives over the years.
Consumers made Microsoft a monopoly.
Why?
OK, look- I know a bunch of people are going to bring up unsavory business tactics! That is true, to at least some degree, Microsoft has done many immoral, illegal and slimy things- but that alone is NOT enough to grant them the posiotion they have today.
The reason why Microsoft has been so successful was because they have a history of making it easier and/or cheaper for consumers to do what they want with a computer than the alternatives.

Note that nowhere did I say that they have a history of making the technically BEST oses, or fastest or anything else.

They give Joe and Josephine Sixpack what they want, so Joe and Josephine give Microsoft what they want.

Now, don't get all crazy calling me a Microsoft lover!
I personally despise Windows XP, like Win2k and thought Windows for Workgroups 3.11 was quite good....but I run various flavors of Linux on most of my machines- 5 out of 7 to be precise.

Microsoft has EARNED its market share by giving most consumers more of what they want better than the competition did. As a result of THAT they have had little OS competion until recent years.....if you count the competition they have now that is.

I apologize for my little rant here, but not enough to delete it....
I think that MS will continue to slowly lose market share, but I think that most of it will be due to consumers learning of linux and the fact that linux just keeps getting better and better.

Legislation and fines against Microsoft don't seem likely to have too much of an effect on them or their operating systems- after all, if Joe Sixpack has to go to the store and choose between buying Windows and a browser or just buying Windows WITH a browser, what do you think he'll do?

 

[deRusett]

Thats just the way the world is.

We elect Government.

Governments make laws.

Courts inforce the law.

Lack of competition is bad for the consumer.

All these things are fact.

In my opinion and apparantly the EU commisions MS have crossed the line. The lack of competition is not in the consumers interest.

TDF.

The problem is not lack of competition it is lack of Quality Competition, MS has made a good Media player, the Company lobying behind the EU is Real Player, which also makes a Good Media player, the problem is Real Player done not make a Great media player, and thus people are happy with the MS media player. IF Real Networks made a great player and Microsoft hindered it, then I would say they have a case, but MS has not done things to hinder its competition ( in recent years) all it has done is give consumers what they want, an All in one Operating system,

the EU's Ruling is saying, You Can Provide what your Costomers want, so long as you don't add anything to your Operating system.

 

[TheDogFather]

I think its more complicated than that, renember computing is a buisness like no other.

I'm not too up on the history, but I'm not sure MS had the best OS. I thought they were just lucky enough to get the deal with IBM and buy a OS from elsewhere.

Computing took off, the rest is history.

My gripe isn't with the OS, its with them crushing competition for so many other facets of computing.

I agree the legistation and fines are little more than tokens and will have no affect.

As for Linux gaining share, it was my understanding TCPA will kill of Linux along with all software and hardware companies and anyone else that cant afford to put there wares through certification.

I wish I could make my point better, but don't spend too much time on concerns that are out of my hands, so my knowledge is more general than specific.

TDF.

 

[deRusett]

TCPA is years from comming into existance if ever.

MS made the deal for DOS to get in on the ground Floor, but back on the ground flooer there was OS/2 DOS, NeXT, All were good, but WIndows Came out, it flopped, after 3 tries MS got it right and people started buying it, there was still unix, heck MS even had its own Unix,

I think its more complicated than that, renember computing is a buisness like no other.

Yes it is a Business like no other, and yet it is being treated like every other business, this ruling of Monopolistic proactices are things regular business do, in the computer world the offering things for cheaper then your competitor can produce is not a factor, since if it was Linux would be breaking the law,

and yet Microsoft offering a free media player with windows is what is the main cause of this ruling,

with all of the media content on line, a computer is ill equiped to go on line with out a media player, thus Windows built one in.

sounds like a good business move, for both company and consumer.

 

[tom10167]

I have a question. Why can't Microsoft just say "We're not going to sell Windows, or ANY Microsoft products overseas then." I really see nothing stopping them from doing that, and there's NO WAY the EU or whatever would agree to that.

I also agree with previous statements. I like how it's bundled, I like the freedom of 3rd party software, I don't like how it's impossible to remove OE and IE from my computer.

 

[deRusett]

I have a question. Why can't Microsoft just say "We're not going to sell Windows, or ANY Microsoft products overseas then." I really see nothing stopping them from doing that, and there's NO WAY the EU or whatever would agree to that.

I also agree with previous statements. I like how it's bundled, I like the freedom of 3rd party software, I don't like how it's impossible to remove OE and IE from my computer.

its not impossinle to remove OE, I don' have OE on my computer. you can find ways to remove it by googling.


And EU is a Huge Market, MS does not want to Stop selling items there, thats 30% give or take of there sales, which would open the door and carry Linux in, with the entire EU using Linux, it would not take long for Linux to filter over into other areas seeing as trained Linux personal would be readily avilable from the EU

 

[mbentley]

And EU is a Huge Market, MS does not want to Stop selling items there, thats 30% give or take of there sales, which would open the door and carry Linux in, with the entire EU using Linux, it would not take long for Linux to filter over into other areas seeing as trained Linux personal would be readily avilable from the EU

that would just open the door for linux...
right now i don't see linux as a real competitor of windows. if they (microsoft) gave up at 30% share, that could be a very fatal flaw to the microsoft "empire"...

 

[tom10167]

But that's just it, nobody's going to say "Well, it's either Microsoft without IE, or I just won't use an operating system." And they're not all about to switch to Mac. They'd accept it.