First step into water cooling - feedback welcome

[Captain_Hindsig]

Hi guys! Long time lurker, first time poster,

It has been a few months since I upgraded my CPU+Mobo and now I'm thinking about treating my CPU (and my ears) with a water cooling kit.

I have set my eyes on the XSPC RayStorm 750 EX240.
http://www.xs-pc.com/watercooling-kits/raystorm-750-ex240-watercooling-kit

Secondly, because my current case can't handle a 240mm rad, I'm thinking of switching to a NZXT Phantom 530
http://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/134-phantom-530.html

Sadly there is no easy cooling solution for my GPU (as it is a non reference design). The only one I found was a universal GPU water block that does not cover the VRMs - would this be viable with only passive VRM heat sinks?

So for now I will just do a CPU cooling loop, and when I feel like upgrading my GPU, I'll expand the loop with a 120 or 240 rad and a GPU water block.

As I am totally new at this, I would like to hear your opinions/advice on this.

Also, I couldn't find a comparison between the raystorm 240 and the raystorm 280 rad - any advice?

Thanks!


My Specs:

Mobo Asrock Z77 Extreme 4
CPU Intel i5 3570k OC @ 4.2 ghz
CPU cooler Thermaltake Contac 39
RAM Corsair Vengeance 2 x 4GB DDR3-1600 CL9 (OC to 1866)
GPU MSI R9 270 Gaming (GPU OC to 1110 Mhz)
PSU BE QUIET! 530 Watt 80Plus Bronze
CASE Silverstone PS06 (Positive Airflow 3x120mm 1x180mm)
Aftermarket CPU Cooler Thermaltake Contac 39

 

[Tatsugen]

Grats on your first post! I posted a few weeks (maybe more?) about my loop and I have parts on order.

I'm sure you know about the beginner thread and the websites to look for benchmarks like Martins Liquid lab and Bundymania's posts. Thought, most of those are for triple radiators and not duals. I would say, just cut the performance by 1/3 for the triples, but, I'm sure that's not exactly how that works.

Martin's LL does have a review on that specific kit here. It looks pretty good, and cooling a single OC 3570k would be perfectly fine. He does replace the stock fans with some AP-15's, and they do work better, but its getting harder to find those.

Not sure if any of that helps, and I don't know enough about cooling VRAM with passive heat sinks. I would say, as long as the case has some air moving around, a 270 should be fine with passive cooling, but let some of the more experience guys answer that. I have seen quite a few pictures of cards with passive cooling.

As for the 120 vs 140, Martins also has some reviews on them, but, what I was told, is sure, its a bigger fan, but it doesn't necessarily mean it can pass more air though. I would look though Martins site comparing some 140mm fans.

The kit looks really good for just a cpu, and being a custom loop, you can always add in a gpu, with another radiator later. Depending on what temps you want, but, another 240 would be better in keeping OC things cooler, but being an i3 and 270, it might be a bit much, unless you want those cooler temps people strive for.

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm sure you know about the beginner thread and the websites to look for benchmarks like Martins Liquid lab and Bundymania's posts.

Oh, I have been reading articles and reviews religiously

Thought, most of those are for triple radiators and not duals. I would say, just cut the performance by 1/3 for the triples, but, I'm sure that's not exactly how that works.

About triples: I had a revelation last night - I ordered just the case. When it arrives I'll take my time and measure the s**t out of it - so I can decide if I go for double or triple fan rad.

With a little bit of luck I can fit a 120.3 in the "attic". If not I'll just get a extra 120 for the rear exhaust

Spoiler

Martin's LL does have a review on that specific kit here. It looks pretty good, and cooling a single OC 3570k would be perfectly fine. He does replace the stock fans with some AP-15's, and they do work better, but its getting harder to find those.

Most of the reviews for this kit were mostly positive so I'm confident about that
Being in Austria, I'll go patriotic, and buy Noctua NF-A12 PWM fans

Not sure if any of that helps, and I don't know enough about cooling VRAM with passive heat sinks. I would say, as long as the case has some air moving around, a 270 should be fine with passive cooling, but let some of the more experience guys answer that. I have seen quite a few pictures of cards with passive cooling.

I think I'll leave the GPU alone for now. Even in 99% load while gaming, it doesn't get hotter than 65C. The water cooling solutions I found look like too much *mcguyvering* to me.

As for the 120 vs 140, Martins also has some reviews on them, but, what I was told, is sure, its a bigger fan, but it doesn't necessarily mean it can pass more air though. I would look though Martins site comparing some 140mm fans.

Thanks for the tip!

Here is what he has to say on the subject:

The 140mm fans are not bad, there are many good ones. I just think they struggle a little at high speeds and that’s probably why you don’t see very many models above about 1500RPM or so.
On the flip side, we have had 120mm fans for much longer and they generally have been through more iterations of design and refinement. This leaves us with some exceptionally good 120mm fans and 140mm fans just haven’t had enough time in development yet.
I think we’ll get there, but because 120mm fans are more popular, it’s only natural that we have some really really good ones.

So 120 it is

The kit looks really good for just a cpu, and being a custom loop, you can always add in a gpu, with another radiator later. Depending on what temps you want, but, another 240 would be better in keeping OC things cooler, but being an i3 and 270, it might be a bit much, unless you want those cooler temps people strive for.

I think I'll do some *light* customisation on the kit: White rez front plate to match the case, colored tubing and a temp sensor with LED display.

Other than that, I'll take it slow - I know it's a long term project

 

[sobe]

An XSPC kit would be a great intro into water cooling. I would however, recommend a D5 kit instead of the X20 750 pumps that are known to have issues.

Something like this,
XSPC Raystorm Extreme Universal CPU Watercooling Kit w/ AX240 Radiator/D5 Pump/Res

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

An XSPC kit would be a great intro into water cooling. I would however, recommend a D5 kit instead of the X20 750 pumps that are known to have issues.

Something like this,
XSPC Raystorm Extreme Universal CPU Watercooling Kit w/ AX240 Radiator/D5 Pump/Res

Thank you for the tip!

Do you have any info on what issues with the 750 there are? - because the D5 kit would be 100€ 80€ more for me

Edit: Checked prices again

 

[Tatsugen]

I wouldn't know too much on the pump issue. Maybe the search function could come in handy. Martin has a couple complaints, but nothing that would stop me from getting it.

A 120.3 + 120 would be more than enough for your cpu and gpu. I would head over to here, and calculate how many watts your OC cpu is actually putting out to find it easier to actually see how much radiator you need. (I meant to post that in the my original post but it fled my mind I guess.)

I'm not sure how many people actually use pwm fans for their radiator fans, but I know I'll be one of them. I have 6 NB-eLoop B12-P, so, we'll see how those turn out. There are probably posts somewhere for pwm vs voltage controlled fans.

I was originally going to go with a 180.2 radiator, for size purposes, but there is only one fan worth mentioning at that size and it would be a mid-range 120mm fan. Better fans, more radiator, usually mean better temps. I'll be posting results as soon as I get mine primed and bled.

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

Ok, I went to that site and got my worst case scenario OC wattage - 152 (OC to 5ghz 1.45V 90%)

For now I ordered the Phantom 530 case. I should be here by Monday.

I plan on measuring the case carefully before making a final decision an radiator size.

After a lot more research I have this preliminary plan:

D5 XSPC pump
Cylindrical or 5.25 Bay rez - depends If I can fit a 120.3 or 140.3 in the top exhaust.
xspc raystorm cpu waterblock

I'll leave the GPU alone for now, because there are no waterblocks for it on the market.

Rads:

slim or thick doubble or tripple rad in the top exhaust. ( will be determined when I have the case in front of me)
Optional/expansions:
slim 120.2 in the bottom intake
thick 120 in the back exhaust

I want to get a nice positive air pressure in the case. I was thinking of getting 7V intake fans and 5V exhaust.

This would mean:

Intake:
1x200mm
2x120mm
(optional 120mm on the side pannel)

Exhaust:
1x120/140 back exhaust
Top exhaust fans depend on what rad I can fit. 2-3x120/140

 

[GTXJackBauer]

For now I ordered the Phantom 530 case. I should be here by Monday.

I plan on measuring the case carefully before making a final decision an radiator size.

Yikes. I wouldn't buy a case and than figure out what I can fit in it in general for a loop. You're suppose to find out what your loop will be like before purchasing a case. There's many build logs out there and tons of information for almost every water cooling friendly case. Since it a CPU only loop, luckily you should be ok with this case. Remember, to blue print what your loop will be like in a sketch than figure out how much heat surface is needed to cool. Do some research on what fits in the case etc. Than based on that information you go case shopping for a case. But you got lucky by picking that case. It would be a shame buying a case that can't fit the rads needed to cool internally otherwise you're hanging them outside.

Kraken X40 (140 mm) / Kraken X60 (280mm) - Case Specs

Last but not least, welcome to OCFs!

 

[sobe]

I want to get a nice positive air pressure in the case. I was thinking of getting 7V intake fans and 5V exhaust.

My vote is for YateLoons for case fans, and Scythe GentleTyphoons for rad. Now the downside, GentleTyphoons are no longer in production, thus their current higher pricing and no warranty. (Not to say it's not possible that the retailer you purchased from or Scythe wouldn't have a spare stock to replace yours with, but keep in mind if it dies, it's possible you are out of luck), the GT's hold the crown for "BEST NOISE LEVEL/AIR FLOW THROUGH A RADIATOR".

That being said, if pricing is a bit high for your liking on the AP14 or AP15, then take a look at the NoiseBlocker eLoop B12 fans, they tend to fall right behind the GTs.

 

[RnRollie]

as you've probably found out, the 750 pump is your typical submersible aquarium pump (probably a Jingway). Not that it is a bad pump, its gone through 2 impeller iterations, and if you just need is "simple" CPU-only kit, its ok & silent. But, the 750 pump just lacks a track record. And if you go wild with multiple Rads & GPU blocks it runs out of steam.

As for the D5 variant, have you seen this? : http://www.xs-pc.com/water-pumps/d5-photon-170-reservoirpump-combo

 

[sobe]

The D5 Photon is actually what I use, love the look of that tube res, and it's solid as far as build quality goes. Coincidentally I moved from the XSPC D5 dual bay res to the Boxgodz Monsoon Series 2 dual bay res, to the XSPC D5 Photon 170.

My first cylinder res, and quite frankly I love it. Less extended tube length for my current setup with cpu only. If you'd like pics of mine from directly after I set it up, check the links below. Ignore the wiring, this is when I first got it set up, so the wires are kinda... there

http://www.simplifiedstyle.com/IMG_20140210_181618.jpg

http://www.simplifiedstyle.com/IMG_20140210_230214.jpg

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

Thanks for the input guys!

My case delivery has been delayed and will prob be here tomorrow.

I like the looks of the cylindrical rez - @sobe had to do some neck twisting to understand your set-up - but I like it.
Have to see how much space I have to work with when the case arrives, before I start planing the loop.

Have to admit, I'm pretty excited for this project

 

[sobe]

lol my bad, Chrome autoflipped the pics for me so I didn't notice. Adjusted the pics.

Just remember to take your time, and if you have ANY questions, just ask.

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

Status Update:

I looked and measured from different angles and I have some mixed feelings...

First of all here are some of the pictures

https://imgur.com/a/H24jL

(It does look nice tho )

I have 2 concerns about going for a EX360 rad:

1 - there is no dedicated space for the tubing (see Measuring 1)
I could go for drilling my own holes downwards through the metal - but I don't have the tools or skill/experience to do it.

2 - there is only proper exhaust for 2 fans - the 3rd one would have troubles (last photo - correct me if I'm wrong)


On the plus side, I have 55mm space above and 40mm space beneath - so the EX 35,5 mm + the fan 25mm would both fit in the top - and push/pull is no problem - a 25mm fan fits w/o any problem on the inside (Measuring 2)


So I am inclined to go for a EX240 and place it with the tubing facing forward (so I don't have to do any modding) in a p/p config.

Downside is the only Kit with this rad is the http://www.xs-pc.com/watercooling-kits/raystorm-d5-ex240-watercooling-kit - that has only the D5 Dual Bay Reservoir.


I'll have to see how big the price difference is if I order the parts individually with the cylindrical rez.


As for future upgrades: there is ample room for a thick 240mm rad in the bottom intake and a 140mm rad in the back exhaust
Pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/6tm5k

 

[sobe]

I went from push/pull to simply push with 3 fans pushing air into the case through the rad I have mounted at the top of my NZXT Switch 810. Temp difference wasn't radical for my personal usage.

As far as the D5 photon if you want to go with that unit, keep in mind there are 2 versions of the Photon aside from sizes. The Photon reservoir, and the D5 Photon reservoir/pump combo unit. If you get the combo unit with D5 pump, the pump is attached directly below the res like you see in my pics for my own unit. If you purchase just the Photon res, you will have to set a pump up with a stand somewhere after the res.


If you are able to, since the AX units are out now, I would look at grabbing an AX, such as the AX240 if you want to start out with a 240 simply for processor. You should be able to easily attach the 240 at the top of your case, such as I have my XT45 360mm with the radiator held/supported by screws through the fans sitting in the fan bay at the top of the case.
Example pic attached to post.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Any reason you need a kit?
Why not just piece together what you want?

 

[Captain_Hindsig]

I went from push/pull to simply push with 3 fans pushing air into the case through the rad I have mounted at the top of my NZXT Switch 810. Temp difference wasn't radical for my personal usage.

As far as the D5 photon if you want to go with that unit, keep in mind there are 2 versions of the Photon aside from sizes. The Photon reservoir, and the D5 Photon reservoir/pump combo unit. If you get the combo unit with D5 pump, the pump is attached directly below the res like you see in my pics for my own unit. If you purchase just the Photon res, you will have to set a pump up with a stand somewhere after the res.


If you are able to, since the AX units are out now, I would look at grabbing an AX, such as the AX240 if you want to start out with a 240 simply for processor. You should be able to easily attach the 240 at the top of your case, such as I have my XT45 360mm with the radiator held/supported by screws through the fans sitting in the fan bay at the top of the case.
Example pic attached to post.

I have something similar in mind

I read this article about the EX series rads, and, as far I understand it, the EX has very good performance with low speed fans (like the NB B12-P) - that is why I want to go with a EX rad for the top
I want it to be silent when the system isn't under load with the possibility to crank up the fans if it gets too hot

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/12/22/xspc-ex360-radiator/5/

As for the pump/rez: I would prefer the model you have. The case has only 3 5.25 bays and using 2 for the rez isn't ideal. (thinking of adding a NZXT Sentry 2 for the rad fan control)

I'll do some more research on the parts and update the thread when I decide what to do.

Any reason you need a kit?
Why not just piece together what you want?

I would prefer a kit, if it is cheaper - but I won't take any shortcuts if the kit does not fit my needs.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

I have something similar in mind

I read this article about the EX series rads, and, as far I understand it, the EX has very good performance with low speed fans (like the NB B12-P) - that is why I want to go with a EX rad for the top
I want it to be silent when the system isn't under load with the possibility to crank up the fans if it gets too hot

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/12/22/xspc-ex360-radiator/5/

As for the pump/rez: I would prefer the model you have. The case has only 3 5.25 bays and using 2 for the rez isn't ideal. (thinking of adding a NZXT Sentry 2 for the rad fan control)

I'll do some more research on the parts and update the thread when I decide what to do.



I would prefer a kit, if it is cheaper - but I won't take any shortcuts if the kit does not fit my needs.

Kits usually have a part or two that they cheap out on to make them seem like a deal.

A CPU only loop you can do fully custom for $250 fairly easily.

 

[sobe]

I have something similar in mind

I read this article about the EX series rads, and, as far I understand it, the EX has very good performance with low speed fans (like the NB B12-P) - that is why I want to go with a EX rad for the top
I want it to be silent when the system isn't under load with the possibility to crank up the fans if it gets too hot

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/12/22/xspc-ex360-radiator/5/

As for the pump/rez: I would prefer the model you have. The case has only 3 5.25 bays and using 2 for the rez isn't ideal. (thinking of adding a NZXT Sentry 2 for the rad fan control)

I'll do some more research on the parts and update the thread when I decide what to do.



I would prefer a kit, if it is cheaper - but I won't take any shortcuts if the kit does not fit my needs.

This is a 360mm rad review, but the AX vs EX for low and high speeds:
http://www.pureoverclock.com/Review-detail/xspc-ax360-radiator/4/

This is the $250 kit I would pick up personally unless you are after that 360mm rad, in which case, This D5 Photon / AX 360mm kit would be for you @ $265. All quality parts that total near $340 when parted out seperately ($360 for AX 360mm). You don't really sacrifice when going for an XSPC kit as far as part quality, unless you get one of their cheaper kits with the X20 750 pump.

If there was anything that could be changed for something better, it would be the tubing. The tubing, while good, but as GTXJack pointed out to me, does cloud, so if you are using clear tubing you will notice it. If you are using the colored/uv, you won't see it. You are still saving about $100 though buying together in their "kit" vs purchasing separately.

Before I forget, FrozenCPU has the same AX 360 D5 Photon kit for the same price as PerformancePC, but you get a free bottle of IandH Deadwater for biocide, would just need to wait til they are back in stock.


As ATM stated, you CAN get set up for $250-$300 as far as cpu only goes, but it's my personal opinion that for $250, you won't find a better overall deal than that XSPC AX 240 kit which includes D5, rad, res, cpu block, fittings, tubing, biocide, and fans.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Sobe, in this case you're looking at the "cut corner" being the tubing (I won't get anything but Primochill Advanced LRT), and the tubing/fitting size (not sure why they would use 7/16" other than lower cost).

Its very true though that the kit is very nice, it'll last for quite a long time, but I simply like having every component as good as it can be.