Freezing problem

[Nebulous]

Help guyz! My dang res froze up again. This is 3x already and this time it almost killed my cpu.

I have an external WC setup i built and i have it on my windowsill.
I'm using a mix of:

75% distilled water
10% water wetter
15% anti-freeze.

Apparently, this mix is not working cuz my res keeps freezing up. After un-freezing my lines, rad and res, i decided to go with a closed loop and eliminate the res. I'm still using the same mix of liquid, my cpu may have already been damaged cuz now it needs more voltage to run @ the same speed. I cleaned off the AS3 and reappplied it.

I was told to either go with methanol ( where i have no idea where to get it at) or isopropyl alcohol. I'd rather go with the alcohol since it was told to me that is has better thermal properties than the crap mix i'm using now. My rad holds a little over 2 quarts of liquid.

1) How much of the alcohol do i need and
2) do i mix it with distilled water ?


Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[I.M.O.G.]

10% water wetter is too much, you want to use 1oz of water wetter per quart i believe is the recommended amount, double check that to make sure, but i think that is right... more than that will hurt and not help.

what do you mean by freezing up? how are you cooling the liquid?

 

[walkerIV]

Simple trial method should work.
First you might want to try using more antifreeze in the initial mix.
Then all the compounds you mentioned are vailable in hardware stores as solvents. Just take whatever strikes your fancy, mix it up in different quantities in small vessels, and put them out on your window overnight. That should give you a base line of which solutions will stay in liquid phase.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

whatever you do, you want to get away from antifreeze, it is a laughable option to use in water cooling. much better options exist that have low freezing points.

 

[Nebulous]

Ok, i'm sorry you misunderstood me about the mix. What i meant was I added 2 1/2 caps of water wetter to my 2 1/2 quarts of distilled water and like 1/2 a cup of antifreeze.

My WC is on my windowsill and temps at nite drop to 19-20f

What happends is i think my mix gets thick because of the AF and the pump can't pump it or it slows down the flow therefore giving it more of a chance to get more and more slushy and eventually freezing up.

What i want is to prevent that and hopefully lower my temps as well.

WHat about the alcohol ?

 

[walkerIV]

trial and error process really.
what is 19-20f in centigrades?
in order to determine the freezing point of the mixture one would need molar ratios of substances, chemical potentials etc.. In short theory is messy, try experimentally.

 

[Nebulous]

20F is -12c. I've already tried different experiments. The only thing i haven't tried is methanol or alcohol and in reality i don't have much time in experimenting again for fear of losing my cpu.

I'm not a chemical engineer, i just want to know what else to use and if isopropyl alcohol is worth using and how much of it do i use in a 2 quart setup. Try to explain it to me in laymans terms please.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

look through the stickies, i think rockstarbob's sticky deals with the issue of freezing points of substances and it tells how well they work too. you can find what fluid suits you there.

 

[walkerIV]

http://www.overclockers.com/articles609/

 

[Nebulous]

Thank you gentlemen

 

[clash]

Ya know that product called "Heet" comes in the yellow bottle, ya pour it in your gas tank during freezing weather to keep gas from freezing..... Try that

 

[Nebulous]

Heet huh? never heard of that one, but thanx

I went with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol/distilled water and also added a capful of water wetter. Temps now @ full load:29c

Hopefully with this mix and runnin a closed loop, i'll have better temps and no freeze-ups ( I hope)

 

[Diggrr]

Windshield washer fluid is around 30% methanol and can be found rated at -40F at almost any gas station in town.
It's also purdy blue, or green, or pink, or even purple.

Don't dink around with it too much though, methanol really is poisonous as all get out, and should be handled with respect.
RV waterline antifreeze is supposed to be non toxic (don't know what's in it) and it too is rated at -40F...don't know it's heat removal properties.

Also, there's simple tools you can get at the automotive stores to set your ratio of anti-freeze to the temperature you desire (hygromometer I believe) using specific gravity (number of balls floating).

 

[Nebulous]

Windshield washer fluid is around 30% methanol and can be found rated at -40F at almost any gas station in town.
It's also purdy blue, or green, or pink, or even purple.

Don't dink around with it too much though, methanol really is poisonous as all get out, and should be handled with respect.
RV waterline antifreeze is supposed to be non toxic (don't know what's in it) and it too is rated at -40F...don't know it's heat removal properties.

Also, there's simple tools you can get at the automotive stores to set your ratio of anti-freeze to the temperature you desire (hygromometer I believe) using specific gravity (number of balls floating).

Question: If I use that Windshield washer fluid (30% Methanol) will it suds up in my wc? I mean while it's flowing, will it start to foam like when you use it from the windshield's pump to spray on the glass and use the wipers to clean it?

 

[Diggrr]

If you have a reservior with the return line above the fluid level, then yes, you'll probably get some suds. But it's not all going to turn to foam. There's a touch of detergent in it to help clean off the bugs, but not enough to make any bubbles stay. If you shake the heck out of a jug of the stuff, it takes 2-4 seconds for the foam to dissipate because of the alcohol interferes with the bubble's surface tension.
In my system, both the inlet and outlet on the reservior are below the waterline.

Also note, this is not for an open system. Mine seals airtight. Your's should too. The alcohol will escape in a day or two otherwise.

 

[clash]

I'm telling ya, goto a auto store and get a bottle of Heet.... Read the label. You need this No colors no foam. just pure "Don't freeze" stuff...

Is however pretty flamable, got home owners insurance??

 

[Nebulous]

LOL Clash, thanx for the idea but i think i'll stay away from that stuff.


Hey Diggrr, i have a closed loop. No res. I pulled it out after what happend with the freezing.

My setup is like this:

Pump>WB>Rad>Pump


So i take it you're using this wiper fluid? What are your temps @ full load, speed and vcore?

Also what's your recipe for your mixture?

 

[Diggrr]

My temps are 26C/29C. I have an xp2100+ running stock speed and vcore. Temps are taken with the stupid in socket thermister, so your results may vary. My heatercore is in the basement, thus the nice cool temps.

For mixing, I just took a coffee cup and put 4 cups distilled and 1 cup WWF in a water pitcher, and filled my res with it. Wash your toys when done.

Crash's suggestion isn't that far off the wall...methanol is flammable too (there's a warning label on the jug), it's just too diluted with water when it's in the washer fluid form...I couldn't get it to light, though I didn't try lighting the top of the jug after opening it. I believe thats what Heet is, just the pure methanol.

Either way, no smoking until they are diluted.

 

[Nebulous]

Alrighty thennn. That sheds alot more light on the subject.
I appreciate all the input and info Diggrr


Thanx

 

[bigben2k]

Just to make sure you caught it: you may have a closed loop, but if you're going to use WW fluid, your loop should be *sealed*, aka closed airtight.

I'll be running WW fluid too. I expect to pour it straight out of the bottle and into my rig. I'll still add an anti corrosion agent (Silkolene ProCCA) and an anti bacterial agent (methylene blue) or Jet-Dry.

I might even add blue/clear UV dye