Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5 F2 BIOS a total POS

[sebaz]

I was happy with my new system with the GA-890FXA-UD5 and the AMD Phenom II 1090T overclocked to 4 Ghz with little effort, just setting the multiplier to 20x and that was it. Rest in auto. Last night I left it running the AMD Overdrive stability test to all calculations selected for 6 hours and 21 minutes and it finished without errors.

But a few hours ago I updated to the F2 BIOS and now everything's gone south. First of all, really annoyed by having to set everything in the BIOS back to the way it was. It should have a way to save the preferences between flash updates. But if that was the only problem, I wouldn't even be upset. But I'm furious. Because now, 4 Ghz is impossible. The computer won't go past the first few seconds of loading Windows 7. If I set the multiplier to 19x to get 3.8, it will load sometimes, but other times it will cause a BSOD. This is on a Win 7 64 bit installed from scratch after I got the motherboard, CPU and RAM.

This BIOS changed the way things work. With F1, I had to disable Core Boost to be able to overclock. If I didn't, CPU-Z would only show 3.2 Ghz. Now that changed. Not only Core Boost got changed to the MIT screen, but now, if it's disabled, the CPU is 800 Mhz. This is while running Prime, per CPU-Z. Now, to do any overclocking, Core Boost has to be enabled, but the highest I can overclock is 3.6, which is not really overclocking because the CPU is really 3.6 Ghz. In F1, if you disable Core Boost, all cores work at 3.6 Ghz steadily.

So this really sucks. Is there a way to revert to F1? Can anybody tell me how, in a safe way, preferably with a USB stick, not from Windows? And if there's no way, can anybody tell me what to do to get back my 4 Ghz with stability?

Thanks

 

[trents]

Sure, it should be easy to revert to F1. Just flash the bios with F1 the same as you did with F2. Flashing works forwards and backwards.

Before you do that, however, I would suggest you remove 1 stick of ram or at least stagger them in the slots to take the memory out of dual channel mode and see if the board returns to stability. My experience with Gigabyte is that they are very picky on memory. Sometimes the new bios will help that if your were having problems but it could also mess it up.

 

[sebaz]

Sure, it should be easy to revert to F1. Just flash the bios with F1 the same as you did with F2. Flashing works forwards and backwards.

Before you do that, however, I would suggest you remove 1 stick of ram or at least stagger them in the slots to take the memory out of dual channel mode and see if the board returns to stability. My experience with Gigabyte is that they are very picky on memory. Sometimes the new bios will help that if your were having problems but it could also mess it up.

I put the RAM sticks in there less than a week ago, and made sure they are well seated. Two nights ago I left the Windows Memory Diagnostic running the extended test 5 times and it came up with no errors after several hours. You're saying that I should just pull the sticks and reseat them, or pull out two, boot up, then shut down and put them back again?

 

[Memojo]

May i just say, that the AMD Overdrive Stability program is garbage.

I past it on my 966BE at 3.9Ghz (around 2-3 hours or so), but i would fail Prime95 and OCCT within a matter of a few minutes.

Flash it back and you should be good to go.

Also, before updating BIOS, ALWAYS have a back up on a CD, USB and other drives. I always back up my current version of BIOS before i do anything at all.

 

[trents]

I put the RAM sticks in there less than a week ago, and made sure they are well seated. Two nights ago I left the Windows Memory Diagnostic running the extended test 5 times and it came up with no errors after several hours. You're saying that I should just pull the sticks and reseat them, or pull out two, boot up, then shut down and put them back again?

No, no. If you are using two or more sticks of ram take all but one out one and see if the machine is more stable. That way you will be taking the ram out of dual channel mode which is where some Gigagbyte boards with some bioses and some kinds of memory have a problem. Of course, you wouldn't want to run it that way all the time because dual channel mode gives some performance advantage over single channel mode. It's not a problem with the memory itself I'm hinting at but the ability of the board to run the memory in dual channel mode with the updated bios. Does that make sense? I'm trying to understand what it was about my first reply that wasn't clear.

 

[OCD-OC]

I was happy with my new system with the GA-890FXA-UD5 and the AMD Phenom II 1090T overclocked to 4 Ghz

But a few hours ago I updated to the F2 BIOS and now everything's gone south. First of all, really annoyed by having to set everything in the BIOS back to the way it was.

Sorry mate but having just followed the instructions to flash my UD7 to F2..

they very clearly state that resetting back to safe settings after rebooting is the best method,

not trying to keep the old settings in a new BIOS that is setup differently.

Honestly before you fry something then end up just take an evening out .. take your time and build up a new safe stable 4Ghz OC ..

it's really that simple

there wouldn't be an F2 BIOS if it didn't improve things ...

 

[trents]

Sorry mate but having just followed the instructions to flash my UD7 to F2..

they very clearly state that resetting back to safe settings after rebooting is the best method,

not trying to keep the old settings in a new BIOS that is setup differently.

Honestly before you fry something then end up just take an evening out .. take your time and build up a new safe stable 4Ghz OC ..

it's really that simple

there wouldn't be an F2 BIOS if it didn't improve things ...

Not saying sebaz couldn't have screwed up with the flash but I certainly don't agree that a bios upgrade always improves things. It may fix certain things but mess up others. Having said that, your point about putting all settings back to default on the first reboot is well taken. The exception to that would be, of course, if your hard drive(s) were configured in AHCI or RAID mode. You would need to configure the bios the same way before rebooting or you won't be able to boot into windows.

 

[OCD-OC]

I happily remembered to nip back in on 4th reboot and enable AHCI ..

you're right BIOS update is not 100% fix all ...

but I've been all over here and Xtreme systems and the general consensus was F2 > F1 versions on these boards ... simple as..

one more thing to note I just spotted

overclocked to 4 Ghz with little effort, just setting the multiplier to 20x and that was it. Rest in auto

and as a newbie to OC-ing I took EVERY precaution .. sometimes twice before changing any settings or voltages.

and taking some very experienced members advice .. Auto on Voltages is NOT the best way .


Careful is the word .. don't run before you walk and you'll have a much better experience in OC-ing

 

[sebaz]

and as a newbie to OC-ing I took EVERY precaution .. sometimes twice before changing any settings or voltages.
and taking some very experienced members advice .. Auto on Voltages is NOT the best way .
Careful is the word .. don't run before you walk and you'll have a much better experience in OC-ing

The problem is that experts just tend to give you generic advice and not specific, like such specific CPU needs this much voltage to be taken to 4 Ghz. I've been posting on different forums for two weeks and all I got was advice like "you should raise the voltage a bit", with them assuming that I can read their heads and know what a little bit means. There are several voltage settings in the MIT screen, which I have no clue what they are and how high or low I can take each of them. I asked in forums but I got no really helpful advice, and if I have to waste several weeks reading thousands of threads on overclocking to learn more about it, well, I simply do not have that time.

 

[ScottinIndy]

The problem is that experts just tend to give you generic advice and not specific, like such specific CPU needs this much voltage to be taken to 4 Ghz. I've been posting on different forums for two weeks and all I got was advice like "you should raise the voltage a bit", with them assuming that I can read their heads and know what a little bit means. There are several voltage settings in the MIT screen, which I have no clue what they are and how high or low I can take each of them. I asked in forums but I got no really helpful advice, and if I have to waste several weeks reading thousands of threads on overclocking to learn more about it, well, I simply do not have that time.

Well honestly if you want to get the max possible you need to invest time, Step one, Find out what the max safe voltage is for each specific avenue (ie CPU, NB, Etc) Then you simply have to put in some work to tweak towards your max, There is no specific magical setting, Everyone's board and CPU O.C.'s differently so they cannot tell you what will work best for you, YOU have to figure that out. In your specific case, If you don't want to do the work, Then simply go back to the previous Bios and reapply your setting that you were happy with. You really don't need to update every time a Bios update comes out unless it addresses a specific problem and you encountered that problem.
Btw, You can post a screen shot of your MIT screen and we can probably help you figure out what all your voltage settings are.

 

[trents]

sebaz,

I feel your pain. There is no lack of advice on the boards and it can be conflicting at times. But, Scott makes some good points. Settings that work for one person's hardware will not necessarily work for someone else, even with the same hardware. The same make and model of CPU, memory and motherboard, etc. will all come out of the factory with some variation in overclocking capability. And then there is the matter of the learning curve. We would hope folks participating in this forum aren't just into a "plug n play" mentality where you take someone else's bios settings, plug them into your 'puter and expect a stable 4.0ghz overclock. Ideally, people would take the time to learn how hardware components interface with one another and what bios terms refer to. And, yes, Scott's advice about oveclocking by increments is always the right approach. And as he said, if you take pics of your bios screens and upload them with your posts it would be helpful to those trying to help you. Let us see what you see in your bios. Bioses are all different from one another.

 

[QuietIce]

The problem is that experts just tend to give you generic advice and not specific, like such specific CPU needs this much voltage to be taken to 4 Ghz. I've been posting on different forums for two weeks and all I got was advice like "you should raise the voltage a bit", with them assuming that I can read their heads and know what a little bit means. There are several voltage settings in the MIT screen, which I have no clue what they are and how high or low I can take each of them. I asked in forums but I got no really helpful advice, and if I have to waste several weeks reading thousands of threads on overclocking to learn more about it, well, I simply do not have that time.

ScottinIndy has it exactly right. Overclocking is not an exact science, every piece of hardware is different and each combination introduces it's own variables on top of that. When the "experts" sit down to a new build they don't go into BIOS, make a few changes, and all of a sudden they're running 4.0 GHz stable - so how would you expect them to tell you how to do it? You make changes, you test the changes, you make more changes, you test some more - it takes time.


If it were simply a matter of changing this or that and having it work all the time don't you think AMD and Intel would both be selling 4.0 GHz CPUs ...?

 

[sebaz]

Well, but this is all based on math, which IS an exact science. So I don't understand how can overclocking be such trial and error as if it were a non-exact science. Besides, the regular advice given to me and that I also read in forums is to raise the voltage a bit at a time. Well, the problem is that there are several different voltages, such as these, which show on the MIT screen, all followed by "voltage control"

- CPU PLL
- DDR VIT
- NB
- HT Link
- NB/PCIe/PLL
- CPU NB VID
- CPU

So I don't know if I'm supposed to raise all of them, and by how much. Because maybe I raise all of them and I might be sending too much voltage to some things and not enough to others. Now, if you tell me that I can keep raising them one step at a time then that's something I'm willing to do, but if I have to try different combinations, then there's no way, because it would take me months of dedicating my whole time only to this.

At one point I thought I had found the holy grail because I raised them all a bit, except for the CPU voltage which I raised to 1.525. It ran Prime for one hour and twenty minutes without any of the six workers crashing. I was doing some web surfing while testing it, and transferring some photos from my camera and it was fine. At one point, I pressed the off button in my camera while it was still connected to the computer, the screen went black and it rebooted.

After that I did a few more changes, but they stop a worker in Prime within a few minutes. I would like to know where can I find a concise explanation of these voltages and what they do. I googled them but I come up with thousands of results that I don't have time to go through. Many of them are not even in forums' messages, but as a signature, or as part of a chart of results, etc.

I attached this voltages screenshot collage with the normal voltages and the ones I changed that gave me a apparently stable 4 Ghz. Can anyone give me ideas on what to change?

 

[trents]

I would put your "NB Voltage Control" back to normal. That has mainly to do with your onboard video function, which you probably aren't using anyway. If you are only overclocking via the CPU unlocked multiplier and aren't overclocking the HT link (old term "front side bus") you don't need to raise any voltages except "CPU voltage Control" (which your have), and "CPU NB VID Control" (try two bumps over normal). You might also give the "DRAM Voltage Control" one bump over normal.

I do not know what "CPU PLL Voltage Control" or "NB/PCIe/PLL Voltage Control" are about, they are new terms to me. I assume the "System Voltage Control" has to do with the South Bridge side of the chipset (audio/LAN) and I don't think that needs any voltage increase. I do not know what DDR VTT Voltage Control is but is grayed out anyway.

IMPORTANT! Keep your HT frequency at or slightly below stock speed. If you let it rise with the overclock of the HT/FSB link you will get instability fast. My understanding, however, is that you have not been using the bus to overclock, only the CPU clock multiplier. Likewise, keep the NB (of the CPU, not the onboard video) near stock frequencies. A little increase is probably okay, however. But again, if you are only overclocking the CPU with the multiplier and not changing the FSB speed then that's not an issue since it would stay constant.

Please install and run CPU-Z and show us a screen shot of the CPU tab, the memory tab, and the SPD tab.

 

[OCD-OC]

hope we can help buddy .. your right about the learning curve and the math.

but with math you have both theoretic and applied and the differences between.

in CPU's and motherboards every component has miniscule flaws that makes a difference .. every single one is unique so certain values are inherently different.

for the simplest of simples .. llok at my n00b thread and Dolk & QuietIce showed me where to begin .. with HUGE disclaimer !! .. this is the start .. and anything over and above is in your own time and at your own risk..

NOOBS GUIDE TO OC 1090T on gigabyte UD7 board

in one of the last posts I put a picture of my baby steps on voltage tweaks and slow Mhz increases ..

good luck fella

 

[QuietIce]

In the order listed:

CPU PLL can stay at 2.50v unless you get really high voltages to both the CPU and cpuNB. If your vCore + cpuNB voltage goes above 2.5v and you're having stability problems, then raising this might help. Some people do raise this to 2.6v to start just as a precaution.

DRAM voltage should be set as specified by your RAM, although many like to add +0.05v to that.

DDR VTT should be set at about half your DRAM.

NB voltage is the NB chipset and can be left at 1.15v. A small bump (1.20v) might help stability at higher vCore (1.50v+) or high cpuNB voltage (1.25+).

HT Link is basically the SB voltage. Again, this can be left at stock, 1.20v.

NB PLL can stay at 1.80v. I don't think I've even seen anybody raise this with the possible exception of extreme clocker's.


CPU NB VID is commonly called cpuNB voltage. The safe range for this is 1.175-1.25v and you generally start at 1.20v but may need to increase it as the cpuNB speed is increased.

CPU is vCore, the main core voltage. The published safe vCore range is 1.25-1.40v but I think most of us agree anything up to 1.50v is pretty safe and many think 1.55v is safe (as do I if you have great temps!).

The main thing with the last two voltages, vCore and cpuNB VID, is the heat. You want to keep your load core temp at or below 55°C and sometimes even 50°C can start to deteriorate your OC. Raising the voltage increases how fast the CPU can run but the heat that voltage creates decreases how fast it can run. In other words, as the heat in the CPU (cores + cpuNB) increases the top end of the overclock goes down so you have to find a balance between voltage, speed, and heat. This is where individual hardware and quirks in the manufacturing process come into play.



BTW
Automotive mechanics is also all based on math but lead mechanics for NASCAR spend maybe a hundred man-hours getting those cars "just right" for one race, then go back the next week and do it all again for the next race. At least our overclocks stay relatively stable for a couple of years ...

 

[ScottinIndy]

Sebaz, I can't say that your bios will be like mine in this fashion, However on my Gigabyte bios whenever I highlite the particular voltage I want to change it gives a brief description of what the particular item you have highlited does. So in essence it tells you if it's the Northbridge voltage, Southbridge voltage, Etc., On my bios it is located over to the right under the heading item help when you are on the MIT screen.

 

[sebaz]

Well, after several tries with BIOS F2 I got tired of wasting time and I went back to F1. With F1, setting the multiplier to 20x and everything else to auto, it boots into Windows and works. However, I ran Prime and it crashed the system completely. I didn't see it, but I was out of the room and when I came back Windows was showing that pop-up dialog that it shows after it booted from a BSOD crash. So I'm guessing that 4 Ghz is a little too much. Still, it shows me that F1 is much more stable than F2. With F2, if I just set the multiplier to 20x and leave everything else in auto, it never goes past ten seconds into the Windows boot process.

While still on F2 I tried the combinations that you guys suggested but it would crash Prime 95, or stop a worker with an error, or just give a BSOD.

I noticed that the higher I set the voltages to (all of them) the more stable it seems, but at the same time, the more heat it produces. According to the 1090T specs, the maximum heat is 62C. During a Prime 95 test that seemed stable, the heat started to go up quite fast, and when it got to 60C I stopped Prime to avoid damaging the CPU. After flashing to F1 again, and having the BSOD, I tried setting the CPU voltage to 1.5, leaving the rest in normal, and that sent up the degrees up really fast in no time.

I'm just wondering if I have a faulty board. Half the times I want to go into the BIOS pressing DEL, after it finishes the self test it doesn't go in the BIOS, instead it shows me this blinking vertical green rectangle with a red dot inside, and it doesn't do anything else, leaving me with no choice but to press the reset button and try again. It doesn't matter when I press DEL, it can be as soon as I turn on the computer, or when it shows the amount of RAM. Sometimes it works better by tapping DEL a few times, sometimes one time is enough, sometimes nothing works. It either shows me that damn rectangle or keeps going into the OS as if I wouldn't have pressed the button. Really aggravating when you have to go into the BIOS for overclocking several times a day.

 

[OCD-OC]

You're still trying to find a quick and dirty solution to a problem that requires time and above all patience ..

regardless of BIOS version .. slapping in some settings and hoping for the best means
that YOU and I'd say WE ( but I don't count) can't tell what setting was a setting too far ... too many variables too much on AUTO that can affect the whole crap shoot ..

good luck with it, I honestly mean that Luck is all you got

 

[sebaz]

You're still trying to find a quick and dirty solution to a problem that requires time and above all patience ..

regardless of BIOS version .. slapping in some settings and hoping for the best means
that YOU and I'd say WE ( but I don't count) can't tell what setting was a setting too far ... too many variables too much on AUTO that can affect the whole crap shoot ..

good luck with it, I honestly mean that Luck is all you got

I know it requires a lot of patience, but between the damn little rectangle that shows up half the times I press DEL, making me reboot and try again, and the infinity of combinations of different settings, it becomes a daunting task. I mean, I've had a test installation of Windows for a week now without all my software because I want to make the definitive installation only when I got a stable 4 Ghz, which according to many, is perfectly possible with this CPU. But I keep trying and trying and nothing seems to work.

Now the latest settings I'm trying (running Prime for about 15 minutes now) is all the voltages just one step above normal. When I say one step I mean just that, I went into every voltage that could be modified and I selected one value above the normal. This seems stable, but according to CoreTemp, after about fifteen minutes the temperature was 65C, so I stopped it. Perhaps 4 Ghz is not achievable with my current cooler, the Cooler Master Hyper212, or perhaps I could try attaching another 120mm fan on the other side of it, but I don't know exactly where should I plug it, since the fan that's already attached uses the CPU Fan connector. So I could use the SYS_FAN1 connector, but how do I know that it will run at the same speed to create an even flow? I had the front fan connected to that, and it would run at 200 or 300 RPM all the time, so I had to connect it to the PWR_FAN connector to get a full speed.

Other than the voltages, what about the settings above that? Should I change the multiplier for the Northbridge Frequency, the HT Link Frequency, etc? I read that some people change the Host Clock Control, but if I change that, even at the normal of 200, this starts blinking in red: "System Voltage NOT Optimized", even if all the voltages are set to normal. So I didn't change that at all.