Help w. oc. amd x2 6000+ system

[overlocked]

Hello. I've read a bit on OC in general over years and didnt learn much, tried some tools and stuff, but really didnt get anywhere. Started to read here today, and decided to join. Now I'm hoping some of you can help. I'm posting the setup here as I dont see any signature yet. i recall trying to OC in bios/setup with no luck. Now i dl'ed the new Easytune6, Everest, Coretemp.. Not sure if i should oc in bios, or using software ?

all temps look to be in the 30's (celsius)

CPU: <AM2> Windsor/hammer? AMD Athlon 64 x2 6000+ (2 x 3ghz). bios F8f(updated), voltage 1.370, multiply 15x200mhz, 125w, 2 X 1mb cache, 940-pins
CPU FAN: Zalman CNPS9900, with 135mm fan
MAINBOARD: Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 rev.1. cpu socket:AM2+.
CHIPSET: Ati RD780/SB600 - amd770
PSU: Lc power 'Dark Angel' modular 850W, 120 or 140mm fan.
RAM: Kingston 8gb (4 x 2gb) "dual" ddr2-667 64bit 1.8V (128 bit?) sdram pc2-5300 (333/667 mhz) with big heatsinks, timing looks like 5-5-5-15-333mhz
Graphics: Club 3D PCI-E Ati Radeon HD5700 OC. edition, 1gb gddr5, 128bit, 875/1225mhz, 4900mhz, 800 processors.
DVD: LiteOn sata ("ihas124"), 2mb buffer?
HD: 1 x 1.5tb sata, 2 x 0.5tb sata
CASE: NZXT M-59, atx, 4 ea 120/140 fans.
SOFTWARE: win7 64bit.
Monitor: Samsung P2770HD, using dvi port (a full-hd tv)
-------------------
some links if i wrote the specs wrong:

my cpu: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Athlon 64 X2 6000+ - ADX6000IAA6CZ (ADX6000CZBOX).html
my cpu cooler: http://www.guru3d.com/article/zalman-cnps-9900-led-review/
my mainboard: http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Gigabyte/GA-MA770-DS3(rev._1.0).html
my graphics card: http://www.club-3d.com/index.php/products/reader.en/product/radeon-hd-5770-overclocked-edition.html
my psu: http://www.lc-power.de/index.php?id=310
my case: http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/classic_series/m59

1) is there any cpu that i could put in this pc worth an upgrade ? i believe i could use a 6400+ cpu (anything better?), they're around 50-150usd used, is that worth the upgrade? better to get a brand new cpu? is 'semprom' cpu any better than what i have ?

2)how can i oc. this setup, temps seem low, and with a good cpu cooler, what can i do ? is the memory blocking this, being too slow or ? its good cooled as well, i think.

3) is it worth the money to get some new faster ram ? or even forget than, and get a new mainboard+ram+cpu etc etc. i might want a notebook or netbook instead. of all those parts (ram is expensive too)

4) adjusting voltage, cpu or ram voltage, no idea what do to - or not to do i dont feel like burning my fingers, or my gear

I hope you have some hints or help. i did try adjust 'fsb' in easytune6 from 200 up to 220mhz or so, and then in everest, it looked as it identified cpu as 6400+ ? i set graphics fan to run 100%, suppose i can overclock that too ?

any help appreciated!

overlocked

 

[stilup]

I believe your O/C will depend on your memorys ability to O/C.
Download memtest to test your faster speeds and timings.

 

[trents]

I believe your O/C will depend on your memorys ability to O/C.
Download memtest to test your faster speeds and timings.

You can always go into bios and set your memory speed to a lower starting point than its rated for so it doesn't limit your overclock, assuming you have that setting in bios. Since this CPU's multiplier is "locked" the only way you can speed it up is to use the front side bus (aka, "fsb") which shows up in bios as "CPU frequency". When you overclock that way, however, everything else speeds up that is connected to that bus, including the memory. So you want to start the memory at a lower than rated starting speed so it doesn't become the limiting factor.

Actually, with that CPU the limiting factor will probably be heat. It is a 90 nm fab process CPU and already ramped up toward the upper end of it's overclockability from the factory. You can probably squeeze another 200-300 mhz out of it.

Looking at the CPU compatibility chart you supplied, no, you are already at the top. No CPU upgrade room.

What we need to do now if you are interested in trying to overclock this computer is to find out what kind of temps you get under load. Idle temps are not very important unless they are already very high. So to test temps under load, download "Prime95" and "HWMOnitor". Also download "CPU-z". Install these programs.

With HWMonitor open already, run the Prime95 blend test for 10-15 minutes. Take a screenshot of the two program interfaces and upload pics so we can look at the results.

 

[overlocked]

thanks stilup for the hints glad to see replies so soon.

thanks trents for all that help already! i have some flashbacks of some of these greay areas already. since i put cooler on memory..well i remember its probably kingston valueram, some 'kvr667d2n5k2/2g' not sure..


i didnt get 800 ram but 667 could do. i looked up this ram, and knowing the mobo only use 1.8V, kingston said 1.8v +/- .1V - does that mean i could up voltage a little maybe ? i see your point with the memory, would i then set memory as 533 instead of 667 in bios ? and like you said overclock and then bring memory speed up as it was or thereabouts ? i will try do as you said, using those programs and post a pic.


are you sure i could not use a 6400+ amd athlon x2 cpu?

 

[QuietIce]

to OCF!

1) is there any cpu that i could put in this pc worth an upgrade ? i believe i could use a 6400+ cpu (anything better?), they're around 50-150usd used, is that worth the upgrade? better to get a brand new cpu? is 'semprom' cpu any better than what i have ?

2)how can i oc. this setup, temps seem low, and with a good cpu cooler, what can i do ? is the memory blocking this, being too slow or ? its good cooled as well, i think.

3) is it worth the money to get some new faster ram ? or even forget than, and get a new mainboard+ram+cpu etc etc. i might want a notebook or netbook instead. of all those parts (ram is expensive too)

4) adjusting voltage, cpu or ram voltage, no idea what do to - or not to do i dont feel like burning my fingers, or my gear

1) It would depend on what you use the computer for. Gigabyte shows the Phenom (not Phenom II) processors on their CPU list for that board. If you are running programs that will use more than two cores then a Phenom 9850 (95W version), is the best you can do. If all your apps run only two cores or less then the 6400+ is probably the best choice because it has a higher speed.
Gigabyte's CPU support list: http://www.gigabyte.us/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=2722

2) OC'ing an AM2
Long version: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555058
Short version: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5587879&postcount=26

3) That would depend on your budget and, once again, what programs you're running. The RAM is a little slow for games, maybe, but could be fine for other things.

When overclocking it's usually not a good idea to use software. BIOS OC'ing is the best and it's the only good way to do it.


What are you going to use this machine for most of the time?

 

[overlocked]

Thanks for the welcome and a bunch for the help so far, you dewds are great. Main use for this pc is probably internet forums, email, and some gaming in rare moments, like Cities xl 2011, Just Cause 2, gta4 (most games' interest last less than a week, or until i mod them broken lol)

quietice> thanks for that link, if its from gigabyte page, im dunno why i couldnt click it days ago. now seeing it, theres a shipload of cpus there, too many wacko names . i would assume most cores are best ? and assume an am2+ cpu is better than just am2 cpu ? i think this mobo cant use am3 cpu's.

if i'd be to upgrade ram, like 1066 ram, im not sure i can get to 16gb, or even 8gb, but i'd like to be able to use any new ram on some other mobo then, probably not a good idea. i upgraded pc's many times over the years.

i know you say bios oc'ing is best, but somehow i find bios stupid, i set something there and pc end up all wacked/unstable, blue screens or doesnt find ram etc etc. so would there be point in using software to find some means of possibility, and then take that to the bios settings eventually later ? with win7 here, im considering me lucky im still here

yes i must def. read that oc guide. i read a lot of oc guide though. i'll be coming back confused though, so I appreciate that you take your time with me here, w/o that i'd be a little lost..

so far i believe my setup is plenty.

trents> not sure these are the pics you mentioned, but here they are, did not look like much happened, pressed torture/blend test

what do these pics say of interest ? i have before wondered what those 'temps' are measured at (especially the 78 degree one) , and a few fans there, that are zeroed out, like they are not connected, or aren't there..confused. can confess that "SYS_FAN2" on mobo is not connected for some reason. i can put a 120mm fan in top middle of the case and connect it to that socket? then there's no more room for fans in this nzxt case.

 

[trents]

Yeah, that's sort of what I was looking for.
1. We don't necessarily need a pic of Prime95 and you only need to run Prime for 10-15 minutes when you are testing for max temps. A longer test would be necessary to establish stability when overclocking, however.
2. I think we need to work on attaching the pics so that they are the appropriate size from the get go. First of all, go to Windows Accessories and pin the "Snipping Tool" to you task bar. It is a great tool for framing screen captures. When you want to attach a pic with a post, go to the "Go Advanced" button at the bottom of the new post widow. Then go to "Additional Options" and "Manage Attachments". Then choose "Choose File" and then "Upload".
3. Some fans speeds are missing because: Fan speed can only be measure if, 1. The wire harness has a tach wire (usually a 3 wire fan) and 2. it is connected to a motherboard header. Fans powered directly from the PSU cannot be monitored for rotation speed.
3. Some temp readings will be ridiculously high because the temp sensor is either missing or being misidentified/misread by the software.
4. Your core temps look great! You have about 10 degrees to play with in overclocking.
5. Bios overclocking wil give you a higher, more stable overclock than software overclocking. You just need guidance on what to change in bios and what not to change and how much to change what is changed. We are here to help you with that if you're willing. Software overclocking programs don't manipulate enough parameters at a time to allow for a stable, high overclock. Typically, they only change the CPU frequency (fsb). More things need attention than that.

 

[overlocked]

1:i didnt know the 'prime' in prime95 related to prime <numbers> rather than primers, but that makes sense now , the useability of results would depend on when the picture was grabbed right ? anyways..

2: I just found that snipping tool in the 'accessories'. I use faststone screen capture and posted clickable thumbnails (sometimes preferred) , not sensing i could use attachment pics. is all 3 pics important, or will 1-2 do? Edited now.

3: Sort of bugging that the tools don't show what temp and fan rpm is what. However fan headers are used, only one header free, which I'll use as well one of these days. (used to have a cdrom in the way of that fan area). Maybe it has to do with settings in bios (my best bet) as for why the temps/rpm's doesn't show.

4: good temps!, ah nice. as for the cpu temp, i got a feeling temp in the 70's degrees are too hot, and 30-40 are still not too worrysome ?

5: Yup, willing and optimistic sires from what i learned from parts overclocking (gigabyte/asrock and others etc) OC'ing, it appear the ram usually is the weakest 'link', and bios being in OC-mode I can up voltages, just not sure how much is enough. still don't want to burn my gear

 

[trents]

1:i didnt know the 'prime' in prime95 related to prime <numbers> rather than primers, but that makes sense now , the useability of results would depend on when the picture was grabbed right ? anyways..

Don't need the pics of Prime95 at all. Just run it 10-15 minutes with HWMonitor open. After about 10 minutes the core temps level off anyway. What we need pics of is the CoreTemp interface and CPU-z: "CPU", "Memory" and "SPD".

2: I just found that snipping tool in the 'accessories'. I use faststone screen capture and posted clickable thumbnails (sometimes preferred) , not sensing i could use attachment pics. is all 3 pics important, or will 1-2 do? Edited now. See 1. above.

3: Sort of bugging that the tools don't show what temp and fan rpm is what. However fan headers are used, only one header free, which I'll use as well one of these days. (used to have a cdrom in the way of that fan area). Maybe it has to do with settings in bios (my best bet) as for why the temps/rpm's doesn't show.

Go to the bios and turn on Smart Fan. Might be found in a section called "PC Health."

4: good temps!, ah nice. as for the cpu temp, i got a feeling temp in the 70's degrees are too hot, and 30-40 are still not too worrysome ?

The goal in oveclocking is to keep the core temps at 55 C or under.

5: Yup, willing and optimistic sires from what i learned from parts overclocking (gigabyte/asrock and others etc) OC'ing, it appear the ram usually is the weakest 'link', and bios being in OC-mode I can up voltages, just not sure how much is enough. still don't want to burn my gear

If you overclock in small increments and monitor temps there is not a high probability you will fry anything. Temps are more important to parts safety than voltage.

 

[overlocked]

hi dudes. i didnt get any reply from quietice, not that i thought he was quiet

but idid try out something, as its been a while since some overclocking attemps. adjusted ram down from 667 to 533 or so, in bios. then, adjusted cpu clock from 200 to 220 in bios, left the rest of the sub-settings like they were. (why adjust these other mhz settings as they are obviously affected anyway by the cpu clock ??)

looks like some memory settings changed, and ram is slower than the before 333 mhz ? now its at 275 mhz ? there were no other 'steps' that to pick 533, so can i overclock more than 220 mhz ? because 15 x multiplier looks to be the max.

then with a clock of 220, or, 15x220 = 3330 mhz, i got these results, i hope i posted the right pictures. i would like a comment or two on these from stilup trents or quietice or others. there is still this 78 degree figuring, seems to never rise or fall. i did not get to install the last 120mm fan, the 120mm fan i had in the bin was with 2 wires, so that would not give any sensoring at all. while i did all this stuff, i did not 're-run' prime95. - should i do that ? but i do know that i went out the door! when came back some hrs later pc was shut down, and not easy to restart, like not asleep/hybernating. it may have some hybernating/asleep issues anyway - it may be some setting..(oops). it seems like after goin asleep for 3-5 times, it refuse to wake up, but that was usually an issue, nothing new.

i may have to look at the hybernate/asleep settings (aww!)

what do you think of these settings with 220 mhz, its basically all i changed ? there is lost of other settings in bios, settings for 100mhz, and 200 mhz, cant snap pics of that easily.

of course, saving electricity would be nice, but a boost of performance would be nice, the main purpose of overclocking, and then set some hybernate/sleep setting.

do you mind giving me a hand guys ? i assume that i got some stableness is becos i stayed at 220 mhz, or becos i set memory to 533 rather than 667 ?

 

[trents]

Whenever you increase the fsb (aka, "CPU frequency") you are also making the ram speed go up. CPU speed, NB speed, HT Link speed, and ram speed all respond to fsb changes at the same time. Changing your ram starting speed like you did in bios from 333 (=DDR2 666) to 266 (=DDR2 533) just changes the baseline starting speed of the ram. As you speed up the fsb the ram speed will go up form whatever you start it at. All you did was change what used to be called the "divider". Look at CPU-z "Memory" tab. there is a line for FSBRAM whose divider is now CPU/12. If you were to start the ram at 200 (=DDR2 400) or 333 (=DDR2 666) you would see the divider would also change.

By lowering your ram starting speed you insure that your ram's speed capability isn't being exceeded in the process of overclocking the fsb. Instability could just as easily be caused by overtaxing the ram as well as it could overtaxing the CPU. In overclocking, there are several components you have to keep stable all at the same time, the CPU and the ram being only two of them.

Note: CPU-z reports your ram speed at half the speed you set it to in bios because CPU-z reports it on the basis of DDR ram bus speeds. Your are using DDR2 ram so just double it to get your speed.

 

[trents]

there were no other 'steps' that to pick 533, so can i overclock more than 220 mhz ? because 15 x multiplier looks to be the max.

Not so. Although you can't increase the multiplier past 15x you can continue to overclock the CPU (and everything else at the same time) by increasing the fsb beyond 220. See my previous post.

i may have to look at the hybernate/asleep settings (aww!)

By all means, turn all that sleep/hybernate stuff off and Cool N Quiet and C1E as well.

do you mind giving me a hand guys ? i assume that i got some stableness is becos i stayed at 220 mhz, or becos i set memory to 533 rather than 667 ?

Don't assume it is stable until you have stress tested it with at least 2 hr. of Prime95 blend and it passes, monitoring temps at the same time to make sure they don't exceed 57 C in the process.

 

[trents]

Your HT Link is much too slow at 200. Try to keep it right around 1000. Set it to 4x (800)

 

[overlocked]

oki trents, well the bios obviously have settings for a,b,c,d etc. why would i set all these speeds, as they change along with the main speed ? i changed 200 to 220 and can see the speed change for the other speeds, why would i change the other speeds ? i can tell the ram was at 333mhz and now its 275, so i could up that a bit ? and yes, i saw the divider change.

i did not get the 'note'. double what ? what is my 'ram bus speed' ? from what value to what value ?

i use hybernate or that kinda sleep mode, cos then i dont need to turn off the pc which is nice. i would like to set it to not do it as often though. wh does that have to ruin overclocking ? pc goes to sleep, cant it go to sleep if its overclocked ?

HT = hypertreading ? hm so i was at 200 ? it was set at 'automatic', not knowing what that was. i saw there was some settings, also 200,400,600,800 1000 mhz in fact, should i set this to max, being 1000 ?

anyways, the pc seems stable now. i havent played a game though. dont feel like playing cities xl, but that would be a good test too. whats the alternative to prime95 'passing'?

sorry, i just dont know what exact numbers to change or look for, i changed the main clock in bios to 220 so far, that seems good, but thinking this is dangerous already. i can tell the ram looks like "4-4-" instead of the usual "5-5-" and such, which tells me that...ram is slower now?

i though it was right to change the ram setting from 667/666 for 533. thats what i meant. i took 220 setting as a good pick (+10%) from standard 200 mhz. hmm what am i supposed to change now ? excuse me for sounding dumb

oh just got the idea, im supposed to run prime95 now, and THEN snap the pics right ? any other hints for me ?

thanks in advance!! great you are helping me!

 

[trents]

oki trents, well the bios obviously have settings for a,b,c,d etc. why would i set all these speeds, as they change along with the main speed ? i changed 200 to 220 and can see the speed change for the other speeds, why would i change the other speeds ? Answer: To keep those components within stable ranges as the CPU seed gets faster. i can tell the ram was at 333mhz and now its 275, so i could up that a bit ? Answer: You could manually put it back to 333 in bios but that would make it too fast to be stable if you are also increasing the fsb. You will need to be content with having it somewhere between 266 and 333. The only "fine" control over memory speed is through the fsb. and yes, i saw the divider change.

i did not get the 'note'. double what ? what is my 'ram bus speed' ? from what value to what value ?

i use hybernate or that kinda sleep mode, cos then i dont need to turn off the pc which is nice. i would like to set it to not do it as often though. wh does that have to ruin overclocking ? pc goes to sleep, cant it go to sleep if its overclocked ? Answer: You can try it but most of find those "slow down" settings to create instability when a computer is significantly overclocked. It is because of the wild swings in voltages and speeds between sleep and full speed.

HT = hypertreading ? Answer: Hyperthreading is an Intel term. In AMD systems HT stands for "HyperTransport". hm so i was at 200 ? it was set at 'automatic', not knowing what that was. i saw there was some settings, also 200,400,600,800 1000 mhz in fact, should i set this to max, being 1000 ? Answer: Between 900 and 1000. You can't make it stay exactly at a certain speed when you are overclocking because it will change in response to the changing fsb.

anyways, the pc seems stable now. i havent played a game though. dont feel like playing cities xl, but that would be a good test too. whats the alternative to prime95 'passing'? Answer: OCCT but its more demanding than Prime on the CPU. If you don't want to do a real stress test and find it stable for what you use it for, that's up to you. Its not recommended however because what seems stable in the short run may prove to be otherwise in the long run.

sorry, i just dont know what exact numbers to change or look for, i changed the main clock in bios to 220 so far, that seems good, but thinking this is dangerous already. i can tell the ram looks like "4-4-" instead of the usual "5-5-" and such, which tells me that...ram is slower now? Answer: 4-4- is faster than 5-5-. Smaller numbers mean quicker timings, not the same as ram speed but does influence performance of the memory.

i though it was right to change the ram setting from 667/666 for 533. thats what i meant. i took 220 setting as a good pick (+10%) from standard 200 mhz. hmm what am i supposed to change now ? excuse me for sounding dumb

oh just got the idea, im supposed to run prime95 now, and THEN snap the pics right ? any other hints for me ? Answer: Run Prime95 with HWMonitor open and watch temps.

thanks in advance!! great you are helping me!

 

[trents]

Would you like me to take you step by step through the overclock process while suggesting bios setting adjustments along the way? This kind of thing is very hands on and to understand it you sometimes just have to get your hands on it rather than reading about it or having someone trying to explain it to you only.

 

[QuietIce]

i just dont know what exact numbers to change or look for

Sorry I'm so late getting back to you - I was working on a computer project.


Let's start back at the beginning. You already have several settings in BIOS set manually but I'll list them all so we don't miss anything:

CPU Clock Ratio: 15
CPU Host Clock Control: Manual
CPU Frequency: 210 (HTRef)
PCIe Clock: Auto (or 100 MHz)
HT Link Frequency: 600 MHz

Memory Clock: 533
DRAM Configuration: [Enter]
... DDRII Timings Items: Manual
... CAS: 5
... Row Cycle Time: 15
... RAS to CAS R/W Delay: 5
... Row Precharge Time: 5
(All other RAM timings can stay on Auto)

System Voltage Control: Manual
CPU Voltage Control: 1.3750V (vCore)
DDR2 Voltage Control: +0.050V (vDIMM)
Northbridge Volt Control: Normal
Southbridge Volt Control: Normal


1. Run Prime95 for 10-15 minutes to check for stability and note load core temps.
2. If it's stable, increase HTRef 5 MHz and goto Step #1.
3. If it's not stable and
Load core temps are less than 55° AND
vCore is less than 1.45v
then increase vCore +0.025. Goto Step #1

4a. If the load core temp is 55° or more OR
the vCore is 1.45V
then decrease HTRef by 2 MHz and test again. If it's still unstable then decrease HTRef by 3 MHz (back to the last good test speed) and stop. That's as high as the CPU will go.

Just repeat that loop until you get to #4a, temps are too high or vCore is too high to continue.


After you've got the CPU as fast as it will go you can return to RAM and experiment with speed and timings. For now, just work on the CPU.

 

[overlocked]

quietice> thanks again, understandable, theres a 'life' outside as well those settings do appear, using cellphone i took a pic of the bios screen which is attached as well. from what you say, it makes sense to focus on cpu, with the lower specced ram settings, then figure out what cpu can do ? and end up with fine adjusting cpu, then ram etc.

Would you like me to take you step by step through the overclock process while suggesting bios setting adjustments along the way? This kind of thing is very hands on and to understand it you sometimes just have to get your hands on it rather than reading about it or having someone trying to explain it to you only.

Couldn't agree more!! reading up on OC'ing is hard also cos theres a zillion of different hardware, where mine is so to speak special, or individual.
yes ill take that offer for step by step help! .

so with this screenshot/dump here, theres the bios screen inserted, what it was set and looked like before bootup. gigabytes "easytune" is alot easier to handle seen in pic too, the settings are there to adjust with sliders 'on the fly'. (assuming these slider affect eachother) the prime95 window is partly seen, and "coretemp" widget shows he cpu loading ot such, where i stopped prime95 (ran just a few minutes..), HT was set to 1000 mhz (didnt know if the 'automatic' was 200 or 1000)

its REALLY a bugger with that 78 degree temp, whatever it is, what could be 78 all the time - always..? some things temper me, while none of the programs can tell me what is 78 degrees.

easytune6 looks like easy to use, just need to know what to do with the sliders, or at least 1-3 settings to exactly set in bios. like for one, should i set the ram to 533 and get on with cpu and other non-ram settings ?

sorry for being dense on these matters. so far the programs for use is everest, coretemp, cpu-z, cpu-z hwmonitor, easytune6 (that must do..) however NONE of these programs can show ALL the info, they all have tab tabs and yet more tabs. can i open several of same program, to see different tabs ? and then stick to 1-2 programs for 'surveillance' ?

NOTE: note many of the voltages (blue screenshot) are adjusted/upped with one smallest increment. though, the set values doesnt match the ones in the HWMonitor..no idea why not.

 

[QuietIce]

You should leave the PCIe clock at 100 MHz (or Auto) as indicated in post #17. I listed the other steps there, also ...

 

[overlocked]

You should leave the PCIe clock at 100 MHz (or Auto) as indicated in post #17. I listed the other steps there, also ...

good1, quietice, after posting the blue picture, i can see your words in post 17 matches, will try that soon. im learning a lot here

thread on hold until i try some more steps, ill post some pics after the steps and such. will print out details.

-> HT Link Frequency: 600 MHz . oki will do so, assuming this goes up with OC'ing anyway?