Help with AMD Build upgrade.

[Zorton_Maverick]

Hi All,

I recently decided to upgrade my GPU & CPU and to add an aftermarket cooler and an SSD.

My current build consists of the AMD FX 4100 and an Asus GTX 550 ti.
I just purchased an AMD FX-8350 and an Asus GTX 660 Ti and I am waiting for them to be delivered.
Also, I bought the CM 212 Evo CPU cooler and a 60Gb Corsair SSD (boot).

Here is my current build:-

1. (O/S) Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium w/SP1 - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English
2. (Wifi) TP LINK 300Mbps Wireless N PCI Express Adapter
3. (PSU) OCZ Technology ZS Series 650W 80+ Bronze Power Supply
4. (Mobo) Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 Motherboard (Socket AM3+, Up to 16GB DDR3, USB 3.0, uATX)
5. (GPU) Asus GeForce GTX 550 Ti 975MHz 1GB PCI-Express HDMI
6. (CPU) AMD FX-4100 AM3+ 3.6GHz 12MB 95W
7. (RAM) Corsair 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 1333Mhz CL9 XMS3 Performance Desktop Memory Kit
8. (CD-D) Best Value LiteOn 24x Int. DVDRW Black SATA + S/W
9. (HDD1) Seagate 500GB Barracuda SpinPoint SATA 3Gb/s 7200RPM 16MB 3.5"
A. (HDD2) Seagate 1TB 3.5 inch 7200RPM 64MB Cache SATA3 Hard Drive
B. (Case) Zalman Z11 Plus Midi Tower Case

My question is this, if I add the CM 212 EVO to my new AMD FX 8350, with no OC done and left at stock, will it be ok on my current Motherboard ?

I know the Mobo can run the CPU as its stated on the Asus website and I have already upgraded the BIOS to the latest version (to allow use with FX-8350).

Any thoughts / suggestions appreciated.

 

[RGone]

Here is a thread about the dated chipset motherboard.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732642
Help overclocking an FX4100!

That user had an FX-4100 and had pretty good success with the 4-core FX processor. I seriously doubt he would have such good luck pushing an 8-core processor. The FX-8350 processor is stock clocked at what most used as the first milestone of overclocking an FX-8150 8-core processor. So deffault for an FX-8350 is already pushed up from the default of the earlier 8-core FX.

There are any number of threads around the net about stock FX-8350s over-powering the VRM circuit of the cheaper boards when stres-tested at defaults. Will your board react that way? No one knows or can really know. System configurations are not universal in reactions.

You ordered the parts and have them on the way before you ask if they might be an advisable upgrade. That is not the way I would check out an upgrade path. I would ask then order. Much more likely to get a successful upgrade.

You have ordered the parts and they are on the way. Try them. If they give problems, then you know now that there was a possiblity of a problematic upgrade with the weaker motherboard. If all runs to your own level of expectations and not ours, then good and very good. Have fun and enjoy your upgrade.
RGone...

 

[trents]

If you use the FX-8350 on that board you may experience thermal throttling under hard use as the board's VRM is not very stout. And I'm talking about when run at stock settings, not overclocked. Sure, the board will work with that CPU but under heavy load it may throttle in order to protect itself. That's the stuff the board manufacturers don't tell you.

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

RGone and Trents,
Thank you for your responses.
I had read quite a bit about the various Piledriver CPUs, OC, stock and motherboard configs before ordering.
As I will be using it primarily for Gaming, with no OC intended...my understanding was that once the case was spacious with enough airflow, fans and a decent Aftermarket Cooler...I should be ok to keep the Mobo listed for now.

I should have the CPU by tomorrow so will try it and check on Temps.
What would be a recommended Board for the FX8350 taking into consideration the rest of my current setup?
I had hoped not to purchase a new motherboard but if I need to, I will.

Many Thanks.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

RGone and Trents,
Thank you for your responses.

As I will be using it primarily for Gaming, with no OC intended...

Your board will be fine for gaming and no or perhaps a little OC. If it isn't broken, don't replace it.

Really to have a better gaming experience, you might want to look into a bigger more powerful video card vs a bigger more core cpu. A quad is fine for gaming, and the FX-4100 will OC pretty well on air cooling with minimal effort.

(GPU) Asus GeForce GTX 550 Ti 975MHz 1GB PCI-Express HDMI

A 660 (non ti) is around 200$ new. It'll game better.

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

Thanks.
I have already ordered both the FX8350 and a new Asus Gtx 660 ti.
Will try the CPU on my existing board with no OC and an aftermarket cooler. If any issues, will upgrade Mobo to something better such as the " Gigabyte SKT-AM3+ 990FXA-UD5".

 

[RGone]

http://www.overclock.net/t/1023100/official-gigabyte-ga-990fxa-series-owners-thread-club/4380
[Official] Gigabyte GA-990FXA-Series Owners Thread/Club - Page 439

That link is to page 439 of at least 585 pages. I found it by searching for Gigabyte SKT-AM3+ 990FXA-UD5 + APM + Available in bios. I did not read the next 150 pages of that thread. There are users in their questioning if the UD5 in REV 3.0 is as screwed up as the UD3 boards in REV 3.0. I never did see a for sure answer. Since you are contemplating a UD5 board and they are selling now in REV 3.0, you might want to see if those many users actually found a way to disable the newer FX APM setting. And if the overclocking was ever straightened out with a later bios. Some were okay but otherrs were pulling their hair.
RGone...

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

RGone,
What Motherboard would you recommend please for stability and future proof for Overclocking if I decide to tweak in the future ?
Many Thanks.

 

[RGone]

RGone,
What Motherboard would you recommend please for stability and future proof for Overclocking if I decide to tweak in the future ?
Many Thanks.

This is about as uptodate list as can be had. The top tier Asus boards are still where they have been since Bulldozer came out and we are at Piledriver now. The other boards have had their ups and downs and Gigabyte seems off the pace right now and Asrock may only have the 990FX EXT9 that will "really" push an 6 or 8 core FX type processor.

The percentages were worked out by ssjwizard and I expect he is likey pretty close to accurate.

Probably the best boards for pushing the PEE out of a good FX series processor with a good cpu and awesome, not mediocre cooling. The percentages are about the Max you could push a good cpu on awesome cooling. Get about all there is from that processor.

Asus Crosshair V formula/z				99-100%
Asus Sabertooth R2.0 Gen 3(not yet released)		99-100%
Asrock Fata1ity 990FX (now 990FX EXT9)		99-100%
Asus Sabertooth R2.0 and Asus Sabertooth 990FX        97-99%
Gigabyte 990FX UD5 or UD7 (see REV 3.0 below)         97-99%

Asus M5A99X Evo or M5A99FX pro << Fair board but will NOT overclock a good FX cpu to the max that the boards above will do if there is cooling and a good cpu.

Gigabyte 970, 990X, 990FX UD3* note2 << The versions of these motherboards that are NOW in REV 3.0 (most shipping now) have since their release been nothing but a pain for their owners that use an FX processor. Gigabyte nearly 2 mos ago said they would release a bios to stop the cpu from throttling but I find no evidence where owners of REV 3.0 have seen any such bios to date. Sucks.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1023100/official-gigabyte-ga-990fxa-series-owners-thread-club/4380
Now from this page 439 of some nearly 600 pages the UD5 is now in REV 3.0 and many users there are trying to get it to overclock well. They were all waiting on a bios back from page 400 or so. Did not read all the rest of the close to 600 pages, but I surely would check to see if any of the REV 3.0 boards from Gigabyte are actually pleasing the guys in that long thread. They have kept the thread going for a long time and it is the
Gigabyte GA-990FXA-Series Owners Thread/Club, which does not even include the 970 series of Gigabyte UD3 boards but the slightly better for Gigabyte 990FXA boards.

It is hard to make a recommendation for a SOLID AMD FX board that is less expensive than the four or five top tier boards above. We have seen users come in here with the cheap stuff and have to upgrade if they really wanted to overclock without motherboard problems and use 6 and 8 core FX processors. By really overclock, I mean in the 4.4Ghz-ish range and above. What that means is that a good AMD FX processor board will cost at least $150Usd and can go higher.

Two of those that came and stayed and still help, came with one or the other of these two boards >> Asus M5A99X Evo or M5A99FX pro and they were able to overclock to an extent. Not a bad overclock per se but not as high as they felt they could go so they each upgraded their AMD boards. One to the Crosshair 5 and one to the Sabertooth 990FX REV2.0 and both are happier. Their overclocks were then more acceptable to their minds.

I have seen a few cheaper Asrock boards that I thought might fill the bill for a 4.4Ghz FX processor board, but none have bought and used one in this forum section. They all bought the super el cheapo 970 EXT3 &4 which were a mess with 6 core and 8 core FX processors.

I will look around some when I get time. Maybe there are some somewhere having luck with boards we have not seen > WHEN pushed with very good cooling and that usually does not mean any air cooling
RGone...

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

Hey RGne,

Thank you. Just purchased the following:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008RPYAS8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_asp_Y7WfF.0YRXTBT

Should have it next week. That's a new CPU/Mobo and GPU sorted.

Now I just have to build it next week sometime. Thanks for all the information.

You have been very helpful.

 

[RGone]

Holly Crap man you don't let grass grow under your feet at all. "Johan34" has that board as does "caddi daddi" and it is close to a CHV z or non-z board so you should have plenty around you that know the board for sure. Not to mention that I just remembered ''ssjwizard'' has the board also. He often comes and helps out as well. So you are in very excellent company for sure of those I know that hang and try and help those asking questions.

Let me say that you should reach about 4.5GHz with a CM 212 EVO or Plus Cooler and more if you get pretty hefty watercooling. But the board should not be a roadblock to whatever your FX-8350 is good for in overclocking mode and Disable = APM is in the bios of that Sabertooth board.

Take your time with the build. Look thru the manual to get used to where things are located. Not too much heatsink compound on top of cpu before putting the cooler on. All the little things add up big time when pushing that power hungry FX-8350. Make sure air is flowing freely in at bottom of case and exitting thru the rear of the case close to the CPU cooler assembly. About all I can think of at this time.
RGone...

Hey RGne,

Thank you. Just purchased the following:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008RPYAS8/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_asp_Y7WfF.0YRXTBT

Should have it next week. That's a new CPU/Mobo and GPU sorted.

Now I just have to build it next week sometime. Thanks for all the information.

You have been very helpful.

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

RGone, thanks for the tips.
Will most definitely take my time.
I was in a rush as my Asus GTX 660 TI arrived today and the FX-8350 i arriving tomorrow. Wanted to get the Motherboard as soon as possible so that I could get the upgrade done.

I have everything now, so just waiting on my new mobo.

Once its done, I will have a spare Motherboard, CPU and GPU. I have someone interested in buying the FX-4100 off me, but I am contemplating keeping them and building a small entertainment PC that I can hook up to my main TV for browsing Sky GO, Netflix, etc ...

Will report back with pics (if that is the norm here) when I have finished assembling / upgrading my PC next week.

Again, thank you - you and others that have responded have been more than helpful..

 

[RGone]

Z_M, we are more than glad to assist when we can. I know we are miles apart and even cultures apart in many ways. The computering draws us together. I hate to have to tell someone that the platform is just not strong enough to support the cpu. It is just a fact of life that seems hidden from many.

There are a few forums now that have acting motherboard police units that come forward rather quickly and outline the hardship of the lesser boards. It wastes the users time and our time typing into the forum when the boards just are not up to the heavy duty use of a 6 core or an 8 core FX processor.

Those of us that seem to act as the mobo police, hate the job. I speak with many of those that hang and help and we just have to face up to the hype given the FX processor but without what are the actual facts of the matter. Most users will not own up to having problems from an underpowered motherboard because they do not want to admit they made a less than good choice. Heck that is just human nature. So it falls on some of us in some of the forums I travel thru to just put it out there and let the chips fall as they will.

I am rather excited for you now, knowing you should have some good parts and pieces to build with. Luck to you man and pictures are always appreciated. Need to run that P95 Blend and post HWMonitor capture while it is open and P95 Blend is runnning. Hit us with the CPUz > CPU Tab > Memory Tab > and the SPD tab captures and then some inside case stuff. Great to see thought out rigs.
RGone...

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

To RGone & others,
Well thought I would report back to advise I have finished my new build. Considering only my 2nd build ever, went pretty well.
Few things to report that I had some small issues with are as follows:-

1. Installing the CM 212 EVO - the clamp wouldn't sit right after I applied the AS5 so paste went everywhere. Also, doesn't tell you how far you just put the screws in - ie - pressure on the CPU and mobo. Also, put the fan the wrong way round per youtube vid but eventually flipped.
2. The new mobo advises to use PCI slot if only 1 GPU installed (can hold 3) - problem is it completes covers the little slot that allows you to install an internal Wifi NIC card. This means I couldn't and now there is hole at the back of the case where the card slotted on old mobo.
3. Attaching the Case cables to the pins on the mobo was slightly tricky.
Otherwise, not too bad. Took my time...

The other issue is that the Fan plugs on the mobo are all 4-pin heads whereas the 2 120mm attached fans to the Z11 Zalman Plus case have 3-pin heads....think it means I cant control the speeds on the fans ?

The pics I took are bad and seem very random so sincere aplogies but can be seen at :-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/96340666@N02/sets/72157634115851360/

I have not overclocked yet as my idle temps seem a little high.
I will power down the PC soon and start up. Once fresh, I will take HWMONITOR screen shot for your consideration.

Finally, considering I have not OC'd the system yet and want to wait a while, is there any tool I can use to test that everything is running adequately ?

All-in-all, I am now the proud owner of an AMD FX8350 sitting on an ASUS Sabretooth 990FX R2 with 16Gb RAM and an ASUS GTX660Ti.
Also, the SSD has made a huge difference to boot up. -lightening quick.

Many Thanks,
Z_M

 

[RGone]

You write >> The other issue is that the Fan plugs on the mobo are all 4-pin heads whereas the 2 120mm attached fans to the Z11 Zalman Plus case have 3-pin heads....think it means I cant control the speeds on the fans ?

Response >> Most new and up to date motherboards no longer have any 3 pin headers. They are all PWM, 4pin headers. I am not where I can see but my now nearly 2 year old CHV has only 4 pin fan headers.

You write >> I have not overclocked yet as my idle temps seem a little high.

Response >> AMD specifically states that Core Temps below 45c may as well be considered as useless. The AMD and Intel either are completely unconcerned with idle temps. They are interested in the higher temps as those temps are the ones the cpu uses to turn itself off if the temps get too high. Other than that they give no concern for temps. I take a glance at the idle temp initially only to see if it is showing 50c or so and that would let me know I most likely did not mount the cpu cooler very well. After that, I don't look for idle temps much at all. I only check off and on if my Socket temp is less than approx 70c and my "package/core" temps are 60c or below when loaded and fully at work.

You write >> Finally, considering I have not OC'd the system yet and want to wait a while, is there any tool I can use to test that everything is running adequately ?

Response >> Not sure exactly what you mean by running adequetely. CPUz on the CPU Tab, the Memory Tab and the SPD Tab will show what the board is running those settings at. HWMonitor of course shows Min/Max for Volts and Temps. And I always run P95 Blend on my systems at stock speeds and voltages just to "establish" a baseline before overclocking begins. So you can run P95 Blend with HWMonitor open and logging and capture and post such image and those 3 CPUz captures mentioned above and can all look and see what is adjusted to what by what seems your AUTO settings.
RGone...

 

[Johan45]

2. The new mobo advises to use PCI slot if only 1 GPU installed (can hold 3) - problem is it completes covers the little slot that allows you to install an internal Wifi NIC card. This means I couldn't and now there is hole at the back of the case where the card slotted on old mobo.
3. Attaching the Case cables to the pins on the mobo was slightly tricky.
Otherwise, not too bad. Took my time...

The other issue is that the Fan plugs on the mobo are all 4-pin heads whereas the 2 120mm attached fans to the Z11 Zalman Plus case have 3-pin heads....think it means I cant control the speeds on the fans ?

Many Thanks,
Z_M

Welcome to the Sabretooth owners club Zorton. It's a great board and I'm sure once you're more familiar with it you'll love ot as much as I do.

As to point number 2 If you're talking about the PCIEx1 slot being covered which I assume you are. That card will work in one of the othe PCIE slots. The gold connector has the same cut out it's just alot shorter.

Also Asus has started shipping what they call a Qconnector. It's a little piece of white plastic that you can connect your case wires to and then connect the whole block to the board. It's actually pretty handy.

Like Rgone said get that Baseline established and we'll give you a hand tuning that system up if you need it.

 

[trents]

Did you get the cooler mount issue sorted out? When you apply thermal paste you only need a pea-sized blob placed in the center of the CPU. Don't try to spread it. Just lower the cooler and clamp it down. The clamping pressure will spread the paste. Tighten the screws until they bottom out. You cannot over-tighten them. They are made to bottom out and all that pressure is need to make good contact and spread the paste properly.

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

Thanks RGone, Johan45 and Trents,


"As to point number 2 If you're talking about the PCIEx1 slot being covered which I assume you are. That card will work in one of the othe PCIE slots. The gold connector has the same cut out it's just alot shorter."
- Ah ok. I just went with the instructions from the manual advising to use Slot 1 for only 1 GPU. May move it at some stage but sitting nicely at the moment ;-)

"Welcome to the Sabretooth owners club Zorton"
- Many Thanks....and Yep, its a cracking board - very, very good board and a beauty to look at. Cant believe it can hold 3 GPUs in a 3-way SLI..Not that I will be attempting that myself.

"And I always run P95 Blend on my systems at stock speeds and voltages just to "establish" a baseline before overclocking begins"
- As per recommendation - gonna do this tonight.

"HWMonitor of course shows Min/Max for Volts and Temps"
- I installed HWMONITOR and CoreTemp.

Please see the following for temps whilst just running Internet and Word:-

https://imgur.com/GXyzVB7

Are these high/low/average ?

"Did you get the cooler mount issue sorted out?"
- I haven't touched since. I only applied a pea size amount of AS5, but when I went to use the clamp to screw in place, it slided and moved quite badly. I was afraid I was putting too much pressure on the CPU and mobo. To be honest, I would imagine its ok but not sure.. If I have to reapply again, I will, but dont want to remove the mobo from the case and disconnect all cables again. Please no!!
"Tighten the screws until they bottom out. You cannot over-tighten them"
- Does this mean you can continue to screw clockwise but the screw goes no further ?

Anyhow, I will report back with my Prime95 results tomorrow. I have installed GPU tweak for my 660ti as it can be OCd to 110% performance easily according to vid I saw on Youtube.

My final concern relates to the fans. Quite confusing.
My understanding in relation to the Zalman Z11 case is as follows:-
1. The 2 side 80mm fans using Moulex are exhaust fans that blow the air out through the vents.
2. The 120mm fan at the back is an exhaust.
3. The 120mm fan at the front is an intake.
4. The 120mm fan at the top is an exhaust.

Based on this, should I install a 120 or 140 intake fan at the bottom next to the PSU ?
Also, I installed the PSU with the FAN faced down as instructed. Was this correct.

Many thanks for the super information guys. Its hugely appreciated.

EDIT - Can someone post a link for the latest version of PRIME95 for AMD CPUs on 64bit Win 7?

 

[Johan45]

"As to point number 2 If you're talking about the PCIEx1 slot being covered which I assume you are. That card will work in one of the othe PCIE slots. The gold connector has the same cut out it's just alot shorter."
- Ah ok. I just went with the instructions from the manual advising to use Slot 1 for only 1 GPU. May move it at some stage but sitting nicely at the moment ;-)
I meant the wifi card not the Vid card. If the wifi card is meant for a PCIE x1 it will work in any PCIe slot x1, x4 ,x16 doesn't matter I would leave the GFX in the top slot.

And for the fans I'd add 1 to the bottom as anintake front intake and the top and rear as exhaust. The two side fans I would leave out unless your GFX is getting hot or you set up a SLI. Typical set up is cold air in the front/bottom and hot air out the top and back. No sense fighting the laws of physics

Here's a link for prime

 

[Zorton_Maverick]

Hi Johan45,

"I meant the wifi card not the Vid card" -
My bad...shows how wet-behind-the-ears I am when it comes to this. Still haven't a clue ;-)

Gonna add an intake fan at the bottom - many thanks.

BTW, do the temps from the image look ok from your experience ?

Any other advice ?

Have downloaded Prime95 from that link, just need to read up on how to sue ;-)