Insulating for Cascade vs. SS Phase?

[funsoul]

Hi Folks

Well...pulled the trigger and having a cascade built. Should have it by mid-June. Doing a lot of other work (eg, replacing the thermal pads in all vga cards, testing a bunch of mobos and getting a watercooled case ready for sale, boatloads of honeydo's, etc) but figured it's a good time to ask...

What, if any, extra steps do I need to take insulating for cascade vs ss phase?

For phase, I eraser a nice big square on the top (out to the dimm slots, nb, etc) and bottom. Mount the backplate (with a big, rubber pad between the plate and the eraser). Put down about 8 layers of shop towel on the top of the cpu socket (with a cutout for the cpu) then mount the phase head.

Do I need to do anything else? Extend the eraser across the entire top of the mobo? Make a gasket out of frost king to go around the (already insulated) phase head? Want to do this right the first time so appreciate hearing what folks have found to be best.

tia!

 

[xsuperbgx]

I would suspect, that for benching, your insulation would be similar to what many use for Ln2. You already do much more than I do, when I insulate for SS.

 

[funsoul]

Thanks xsuperbgx. Will do

 

[TsunamiJuan]

big thing to keep in mind with a cascade is that its that you will have more cold crawl across your board than you do on single stage. Which generally has very little crawl of cold away from the socket. Atleast its usually low enough that the powerphases provide a good barrier to prevent the already hot bits from having condensation form on them.

So things like fans blowing hot air around the sides of the evap head, similar to what you do with ln2 is helpful. This will prevent the crawl of condensation out and away from the socket across the board into the power phases.

I really dont recommend using a large amount of eraser around the socket either. Since it tends to conduct heat away from the socket much more quickly than even a piece of drenched cold cell foam will. Generally Frost king is gonna be your friend to a thicker degree than you would use for SS.

 

[funsoul]

Thanks TsunamiJuan!

Was thinking of going this route http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?201916-Insulating-with-eraser.

I'd go with a much thinner layer of eraser and about 8 layers of shop towel between the eraser and head. Would cut a circle (rather than a square) out of the neoprene (have about a 1/2 sheet of 1/2") so the insulated evap head will fit inside the hole. Have to think about warm air fanning...ambient temp in that room is pretty cool.

Wondering if I took a really thin square of neoprene (like an old mouse mat maybe?) and cut a cpu-sized square out of it if it'd help keep the head from coming into contact with the eraser? It'd have to be a really thin layer, though...have had issues in the past with not getting a good contact between the head and cpu. :/

Would any of the above work? Other thoughts? So should I ditch the eraser and go with LET? If I ever bend the pins would still want to be able to send it for repair.

Thoughts certainly appreciated
Thanks again

 

[TsunamiJuan]

I usually really crank down the clips hard on the evap and pots. Usually about to the point that the springs bottom out. I've become a big fan of Frost king, The fresh stuff goes down really well stickyness wise, but can still be removed without damage. it usually takes about two layers to get it to get it even with the top of the socket i find. and a 3rd somewhat over the edges of the socket leaving room for the evap head. I leave a layer of thicken insulation usually the outdoor pipeinsulation, for around the evap. I let that layer kinda sit loose over the tube while getting the mounting started and keep pressure on the head with one hand and then crank down the the nuts with the other.

I find it helps alot aswell to make sure your thermal paste is thin, that you use between the evap head and chip. I like to warm up my paste, and somtimes thin it with a drop of isoprophyl alcohol. Hair dryer helps for warming up both surface so you can get a decent spread. also making sure its not to thick to begin with. Trying to do it in a single motion without it lifting and pressing back down helps alot aswell.

 

[funsoul]

Have some 1/8" armaflex. Which specific frost king insulation? This one? http://www.frostking.com/foam-and-foil-pipe-insulation/ Seem to recall seeing pics of squares (larger than 2") so am I looking at the wrong stuff?

 

[TsunamiJuan]

Yeah that the stuff you just peel the foil off it comes off easily. You can buy them in sheets from some retailers.

 

[jaymz9350]

Have some 1/8" armaflex. Which specific frost king insulation? This one? http://www.frostking.com/foam-and-foil-pipe-insulation/ Seem to recall seeing pics of squares (larger than 2") so am I looking at the wrong stuff?

Yeah there is wider frostking the roll I have is around 12"

 

[funsoul]

thanks again TJ and jaymze...found it.

So...what do you think about adding a heater on the back of the mobo between the back of the socket and the storm king like Deanzo did/does?

 

[TsunamiJuan]

I like it in some situations, I've been using a socket heater from time to time on the VRM controller chips, since they are cold sensitive. The heaters only really get warm enough to effect a very very small area, and dont really bring up the temperature of the socket much at all, and in most extreme setups they get iced over still.

They are really only useful when using small phasechange in an allways setup all the time time build. But they can be very useful in situations of coldbugging.

 

[funsoul]

Thanks again TsunamiJuan! Anything else that'd be useful? Would like to be able to go 6-8 hour sessions.

 

[TsunamiJuan]

good airflow over the outside of the area definitely helps for long runs. Keep in mind during long runs you might need to run a load on your chips while tweaking to prevent cold bugging and additional frost.

I'd think if you run a good insulation setup with the frost king you shouldn't have to much trouble, make sure you get some good warm airflow over your ram to since you might end up some icing due to the cold spread and proximity.

 

[funsoul]

You're awesome...will make sure a fan or 2 is blowing over the board and ram. Now it's just a matter of waiting another couple weeks for the cascade and giving it a try. Thanks again!

 

[xsuperbgx]

Where did you order it from?

 

[funsoul]

Hi xsuperbgx!
Ordered it from sdumper. He built my ss and offered me an excellent deal on the cascade (which will use some parts from the ss).

 

[MattNo5ss]

My cascade was built by sdumper and it works great. You'll like it I'm sure.

One of the best parts about it was that I could pick it up to avoid shipping costs...

 

[funsoul]

Heya MattNo5ss!
Yeah...I'm definitely excited. I'm not close enough to pick it up but shopping the ss was cheaper than expected (~$45).

Any tips, etc you can share that'll help me get the most out of it (incl long benching sessions)?

 

[funsoul]

It's coming along now.... http://www.overclock.net/t/1394585/fsu-souls-build-thread

 

[funsoul]

Alrighty then...after a lo-o-ong delay in getting gas from a new supplier...sdumper's tuning and finishing up the cascade!

In addition to adding a couple fans to blow over the board, ditching the eraser route and am going to use this guide: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...on-using-a-LN2-DI-unit-the-clean-and-easy-way

Rather than the round pipe insulation am planning to use squares of thick neoprene, cut holes out and stack them.

Instead of nail polish...should I use conformal, LET or something else? Should I go ahead and cover the entire bottom of the board or just the smaller area around the cpu?


What do ya'll think? That cover it? Conformal, LET? Appreciate the guidance! Want to make sure to do this right the first time.
tia!