Intel Q33 Express Chipset Compatibility with Windows 10

[foxfaisal]

Good day,

Many months ago, I restored an old HP Business dc5800 Small Form Factor, as shown in the link below:
https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-bu...0-3ghz-2gb-ram-160gb-hd-vista-business/specs/


The desktop is based on Intel Q33 Express Chipset. Below is the summary of the desktop's components before and after the restoration:

Before restoration:
1) Pentium E2200
2) 2 x 1GB DDR2 800MH
3) Intel GMA 3100 integrated graphics
4) Windows XP
5) Western Digital 60GB HDD.

After restoration:
1) Core 2 Quad Q9650
2) 4 x 2GB DDR2 800MHz
3) NVidia GeForce GT 1030
4) Windows 10 Pro
5) Intel 1TB SSD


However, the northbridge becomes overheat, causing the CPU fan to spins noisily. The noise level is only reduced after I replace the thermal paste at the heatsink of the northbridge. I installed the NVidia GeForce GT1030 to lessen the burden of the northbridge, but I think it does not give too much effect. Usually, the CPU fan becomes noisy when I open certain websites on google chrome, such as facbook (when there are too many videos on the newsfeed), certain video streaming websites etc.


I suspect that this happens because one of the following things"
1) The Q33 Express northbridge is faulty.
2) The Q33 Express northbridge is not compatible with windows 10.
3) The driver for Q33 Express northbridge is not compatible with windows 10.
4) Other faulty components (processor, RAM, etc) causes the northbridege to overheat.


My last resort is to replace the existing OEM fanless northbridge heatsink with the aftermarket heatsink that comes with fan, such as below:
1)

2)

3)

If this aftermarket heatsink that comes with fan does not improve anything, I think I will just dispose the PC and transfer the CPU to a used P45/P43 chipset based motherboard to build another custom PC.


Another option is to downgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 7, but then the desktop will not be usable after Windows 7 expired by the year 2020. In addition, only PC with Windows 10 will be able to use Ms Office 2019, which will be released in few more months.


Please advice if there is anything that I could do to save this baby


Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Johan45]

I think it's more likely because of the Q9650, the quads are much harder on the NB. First check to see that the board isn't using too much voltage for NB/MCH and drop it if you can.

 

[Alaric]

65w to 125w will tend to do that.

 

[foxfaisal]

I think it's more likely because of the Q9650, the quads are much harder on the NB. First check to see that the board isn't using too much voltage for NB/MCH and drop it if you can.

The user's manual of this desktop says that the desktop (both standard profile version and small form factor version) are capable to be upgraded until Q9650 (without mentioning anything about the overheating northbridge as a drawback)

I have a spare Core 2 Duo E8600 (65W TDP). If you think that the problem is really caused by the quad core, I will try replacing the Q9650 with E8600 this weekend (because I'm currently outstation) and see whether there is an improvement or not.


EDIT: Btw, how to check if the the board isn't using too much voltage for NB/MCH? Is it trough the BIOS? How can I know what is the recommended voltage level for a particular board?

65w to 125w will tend to do that.

Actually my CPU is Core 2 Quad Q9650, not Core 2 Extreme QX9650. The TDP for Q9650 95W while the TDP for QX9650 130 TDPW.

All this time I touch the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge when the CPU fan is noisy - during this time, only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.

If you think that CPU with higher TDP will cause the northbridge to be overheated anyway, I will downgrade the desktop with my spare Core 2 Duo E8600 this weekend.

 

[Johan45]

It's possible to still use this CPU, you might consider upgrading the CPU cooler, adding a small fan for more circulation on the NB chipset.
To adjust voltage you need a starting point, if there are no voltages displayed in BIOS, check to see if there's a monitoring page. If not you're going to have to guess and work from there. I've never had a Q33 chipset so not sure where to start but if it were me. I'd start at 1.3V and work my way up. If the PC doesn't boot you know you need more. You'll also need to test it for stability.
These chipsets have a max operating temp usually in the 100°C range so being hot is OK just not too hot.

 

[foxfaisal]

All right. I will downgrade the system from Q9650 to my spare E8600. Whether it works or not, I will also try the aftermarket northbridge cooler with fan (while using the Q9650 and E8600).

 

[maxfly]

somethings bothering me with the initial assumption that because the CPU heatsink fan is ramping up(while browsing) that its the nb overheating rather than the cpu overheating? if your CPU fan is ramping up while browsing you have a serious issue with the CPU hsf mount(push pins) or the hsf itself. i would advise the OP to check the hsf mount first to be sure none of the 4 attaching push pins have come loose. second i would use coretemp to monitor the temps of the CPU to see where it starts to ramp up. while it certainly cant hurt to add a solid heatsink and fan to the nb the problem lies with the CPU heatsink.

EDIT- if you have a spare p45 mb lying around i would definitely put it to use running the components in this rig.

 

[foxfaisal]

It's possible to still use this CPU, you might consider upgrading the CPU cooler, adding a small fan for more circulation on the NB chipset.
To adjust voltage you need a starting point, if there are no voltages displayed in BIOS, check to see if there's a monitoring page. If not you're going to have to guess and work from there. I've never had a Q33 chipset so not sure where to start but if it were me. I'd start at 1.3V and work my way up. If the PC doesn't boot you know you need more. You'll also need to test it for stability.
These chipsets have a max operating temp usually in the 100°C range so being hot is OK just not too hot.

I forgot to tell you that this is a small form factor, so it might be difficult to add more fan. The more feasible option is to upgrade the fanless OEM northbridge heatsink with aftermarket heatsink with fan.

somethings bothering me with the initial assumption that because the CPU heatsink fan is ramping up(while browsing) that its the nb overheating rather than the cpu overheating? if your CPU fan is ramping up while browsing you have a serious issue with the CPU hsf mount(push pins) or the hsf itself. i would advise the OP to check the hsf mount first to be sure none of the 4 attaching push pins have come loose. second i would use coretemp to monitor the temps of the CPU to see where it starts to ramp up. while it certainly cant hurt to add a solid heatsink and fan to the nb the problem lies with the CPU heatsink.

The desktop uses fanless heatsink, as shown in the photo in the following link:
https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/0okAAOSwuq9ZayMm/s-l1600.jpg

This fanless OEM heatsink uses screws instead of using push pin like the standard LGA775. I tried to replace the fanless OEM heatsink with the aftermarket Cooler Master heatsink + fan for LGA775, but the pushpins cannot go into the OEM screwholes on the motherboard.

Lastly, because the fanless OEM heatsink does not have any fan, the desktop has 2 fans that are connected to the motherboard (using the 4-pin connector). 1 fan is at the front of the case acting as intake fan and the other one is inside the psu acting as the exhaust fan. The noisy fan when the northbridge is overheating is the psu fan. Please take note that the PSU fan is also connected to the motherboard using 4-pin connector, this means that the motherboard can control the speed of the psu fan (and the intake fan) via this 4-pin connector. The layout of the inside of the case is shown in the following link (just in case if you want to see the location of the intake fan, exhaust/psu fan, fanless OEM heatsink, northbridge heatsink etc):
1) http://thegioivitinhcu.vn/Image/Picture/PC/HP/hp DC5800 2.jpg
2) http://thegioivitinhcu.vn/Image/Picture/PC/HP/hp DC5800 3.jpg

EDIT- if you have a spare p45 mb lying around i would definitely put it to use running the components in this rig.

I already ordered a used P43 motherboard online instead of P45, because the P43 motherboard is cheaper and I have no requirement to do crossfire. It is expected for me to receive the motherboard in 3 weeks. The detail of the motherboard is shown in the following link:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-EP43T-S3L-rev-14#ov

 

[maxfly]

alright i gotcha. a passive heatsink is definitely not a good idea with your quadcore. altho if your going to keep that rig you may be able to strap a 80mm fan to the passive heatsink. good choice in mb, gigabyte made some really solid socket 775 mbs. GL!

 

[foxfaisal]

alright i gotcha. a passive heatsink is definitely not a good idea with your quadcore. altho if your going to keep that rig you may be able to strap a 80mm fan to the passive heatsink. good choice in mb, gigabyte made some really solid socket 775 mbs. GL!

That passive heatsink will not play well with a q9650. Id zip tie a 60, 70mm or 80mm fan to it.

1) All this time I touch the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge when the CPU fan is noisy - during this time, only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.
2) I even zip-tied 2 x 60mm fan at the inlet at outlet of the fanless OEM heatsink (as intake and exhaust of the heat sink), but cpu fan still gets noisy.

Based on both of the points above, do both of you still thinks that the CPU fanless heatsinks is the one that has problem?

Sucks you are not in the usa. I have alot of high end dfi and abit 775 boards. I would have sent you one for not mutch more than the cost of shipping.

But the gig board you linked is a good board you dont overclock the cpu.

Thank you very much for your concern. Beside the Gigabyte, I even have intention to purchase used P43 motherboards from other manufacturers (ASUS, MSI) as next project/hobby, but I think it is better to completely build the Gigabyte motherboard first and make sure it has no problem before purcahsing more more motherboard from the same type.

 

[foxfaisal]

Is this the system you have?
https://shop.r10s.jp/e-fellows5/cabinet/00580277/img58973250.jpg

Yes, this is exactly the system that I have.

If that is your system Id say the NB is running fairly hot with a q9650. If you plain to push the system Id get a better heat sink of eBay or something. You don't need anything fancy, just a better one.

When you mentioned about no need to buy fancy northbridge heatsink (as long as it is better), do you mean that I should buy the one with fan or the one without fan?

But a better CPU fan may be a good idea too.

Could you post a photo of the system so we can see your cooling setup? Also what kind of fans did you use?

I think I don't have to post the photo of the system anymore because you manage to find it on your own in your posting above . I use the standard fan shown in the photo that you manage to find on your own . The desktop uses fanless heatsink, as shown in the photo in the following link:
https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/0okAAOSwuq9ZayMm/s-l1600.jpg

This fanless OEM heatsink uses screws instead of using push pin like the standard LGA775. I tried to replace the fanless OEM heatsink with the aftermarket Cooler Master heatsink + fan for LGA775, but the pushpins cannot go into the OEM screwholes on the motherboard.

Lastly, because the fanless OEM heatsink does not have any fan, the desktop has 2 fans that are connected to the motherboard (using the 4-pin connector). 1 fan is at the front of the case acting as intake fan and the other one is inside the psu acting as the exhaust fan. The noisy fan when the northbridge is overheating is the psu fan. Please take note that the PSU fan is also connected to the motherboard using 4-pin connector, this means that the motherboard can control the speed of the psu fan (and the intake fan) via this 4-pin connector.

And did you use thermal compound on the cpu? did you clean the old thermal compound off the heat sink when upgrading the cpu?

Yes, I do use the thermal grizzly brand on my CPU heatsink. I also clean the old thermal compound using alcohol swab purchased from pharmacy .

Also run a tool like CPU-ID's HWmonitor, leave it running and just use the commuter like you usually do then post a screen shot of it.
This will let us know what really is running hot in the system.

Will do it this weekend, because I am away from my home and will only return home during the weekend.


Thank you.

 

[foxfaisal]

All right, but I will still go for the heatsink with fan if the price does not differ too much from the price of the bigger fanless heatsink.

If you really want to know the fan size, I will measure it by the time I return home this weekend.

Today I learn something new from you - all this time I never know the existence of the PCI slot fan . Unfortunately, I don't find any low profile version on ebay so far.

I don't use both floppy and DVD drive. I will replace it with the bay fan if I could find any. Thank you also for this suggestion .

 

[Bill Dimwit]

Not a problem. Having a fan on the NB would help, but is a little over kill for q33 chipset. TBH is you have a 40mm or 50mm fan you could use a zip tie or VHP tape to add it to the NB heat sink you already have. Be sure to use good thermal compound and clean the NB and its heat sink before installing the new heat sink.

The fan size its not really needed, its more the model of the fan. The stock case fans could just be a loud fans.
As for pci slot fans, they tend to be cheap and ineffective most of the time, but there are times ware they are useful. Like with a system like yours. If you do find a pci slot fan that would work for you make sure its a blower kind
like this https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-39083765508394_2271_179125178 And make sure its one that blows air out side the can and not suck air into the case.

 

[foxfaisal]

I forgot to tell you that I even zip-tied 2 x 60mm fan at the inlet at outlet of the fanless OEM CPU heatsink (as intake and exhaust of the heat sink), but cpu fan still gets noisy. This is the point when I touched the heatsinks for both CPU and northbridge when the CPU fan is noisy and discovered that only the heatsink for northbridge is hot.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

Wat about the PSU? How hot is it?

Also touching a heat sink is not the best way to know if a chip is running hot. Infact a cold heat sink can mean much the same as a hot heat sink. A hot heat sink is doing its job of pulling heat from the chip wile a cold heat sink may not be puling heat from a chip.
However a cold heat sink could also mean the chip is running to cold to heat up the heat sink. A tool like HW monitor will tell you the temps of the cpu and maybe the NB.

 

[foxfaisal]

Good day. Sorry for a very late reply. I promised to give the screenshots of Core Temp, HWiNFO, Speccy, Speedfan etc. last weekend, but I didn't do it because I was so busy and tired.

Please find some of the screenshots below. These screenshots were done when the PSU fan is noisy (even though it is a PSU fan, there is a 4 pin connector connecting the fan to the motherboard - that means that the proprietary PSU fan speed is controlled directly by the motherboard. These screenshots are not taken at the same time, so the temperature displayed will be slightly different from one to another. Please also take note that I only screenshoot the tabs related to CPU and motherboard temperature. Just in case if you need me to screenshoot other tabs, please tell me which software and which tab.

Core Temp


HWiNFO - System Summary


HWiNFO - Sensor Status


Speccy - CPU


Speccy - Motherboard


Speed Fan - Readings


Speed Fan - Exotics

 

[maxfly]

do you have a normal atx case by chance? that case is just not set up for a quadcore system. the case air flow is set up specifically for a really low power cpu that hardly emits any heat. trying to find a way to cool your 9650 in it is just not going to work without major mods. with a standard atx case you would be able to use your p43 mb and the coolermaster cpu heatsink along with the rest of the components in the old case.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

Those temps are not bad for the system.

From what your saying, its the psu fan that is loud? Can it be replaced? Also what is its wattage? adding the video card and quad may be over loading or maxing it out and its fan may be running at higher rpm to cool it. Or it could just be pulling it more heat from the cpu and running hotter because of that.

 

[foxfaisal]

This is the latest update.

All this time I thought only the PSU/exhaust fan were the one that was noisy, because I only listen to the noisy sound when the case was closed. Last night I opened the case to verify whether the PSU/exhaust fan was the one that was noisy - now I discovered that both the intake/CPU fan and PSU/exhaust fan are noisy. All this time I didn't realised that the intake/CPU fan was also noisy because the case side cover was closed and I can only hear the noisy sound from the rear of the case. After the side cover is removed, the noisy sound is also hearable from the front of the case.

I have downgraded the CPU from Q9650 (95W TDP) to E8600 (65W TDP) and removed the NVidia GeForce GT1030, but the noise is still there.

I think I will try the aftermarket northbridge cooler with fan as the last resort. If still noisy, I will try to install Win 7 or even Linux. If still noisy, I will decide to scrap this desktop.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

I would not scrap the system because of a nosy fan. Replace the fans with better ones before you scrap it. The system probably has delta fans or something like that. They can get rather noisy at higher RPMs. Something like a Scythe fan is what I would use.