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Is Linux Ready For Prime Time?

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Bad Maniac said:
The USB Wireless Adapter example is still valid if you ask me. Yes it's not a linux issue, its a driver issue. But if linux was ready for prime time, shouldn't you expect Belkin, one of the largest suppliers of wireless hardware, to have driver support for it?

Same with software developers, they need to start developing more multiplatform software suitable for linux.
(I am going to refer to all the Linux users as just Linux for simplicity.)


Linux would more then be willing to add that support. It fought tooth and nail with ATi on drivers. Some even begged. How many consumer products do users beg to use the product?

Linux as a whole is ready for prime time.. It is what runs in it or on it that is not ready for Linux.. ( this is a Windows power user saying this..)

Back when XP was first released there was many issues with driver and app support. It was a prime time OS too. After effort on the makers part, usability was then brought into the users hands. Why not Linux too?

Most users are ready for Linux. Linux is ready for them. Most computers have parts that are just not ready for Linux. It is not Linux's fault.. Blame the companies for ignoring modern Operating Systems.
 
lol

Can you tell I am a Windows user.. I have to add 15 pounds of fluff for one simple statement.

:D In Linux it would of been ..

$su user


Linux as a whole is ready for prime time.. It is what runs in it or on it that is not ready for Linux..
 
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Let me jump into this conversation.

Linux is like an unfinished product. Does it work, well, yes, but not entirely. Like a beta. What does a company need to finish a beta product? It needs money. A lot of it. Linux never saw any money and never will. It is open source. For this one reason Linux will never be ready for prime time.

You get what you pay for. I know this is not 100% true since you do get something, right? Well, no one out there guarantees that this new 2.x.x kernel will even work on your hardware. When you pay for something and it doesn't work, well, you can at least go complain and/or sue the company for not doing what they were supposed to be. With Linux? You can't really do anything except solve the problem yourself.
 
There are several paid versions of Linux software. I am not sure if they are any better but would like to hear from people that have tried them.
 
There are several paid versions of Linux software. I am not sure if they are any better but would like to hear from people that have tried them.

I used 2 free distros for a while that also have a commercial version, Suse 10 and Xandros 3.

Xandros was nice, but came hobbled without full CD/DVD burning capability. Easy to install and update.

Suse 10 worked alright with my hardware, but updating was slow and sometimes didn't work at all.

I tried PCLinuxOS and was floored- it did everything those 2 other distros were supposed to do and did everything well. And this is a distro with 1 guy as THE developer, depending upon donations for financial support (yes, i have donated some $).
 
Enablingwolf said:
lLinux as a whole is ready for prime time.. It is what runs in it or on it that is not ready for Linux..

What will get there attention? (the makers of the hardware and software)
Im stuck on Win2K and don't want to buy a "better" (ROFLMAO) MS OS.

Buying another copy of Win2kpro seems silly to :rolleyes:
 
I have used Linspire Five - O


It should have the best support one would think. Somethings is it nice. Though it is no better at detection then any free distro. The latest does not even boot on my machine.


I was investigating it as a simple way for my in-laws to switch over and get used to non-Windows. I have to admit, the CnR is kind of slick and easy to use. It still has all the lovely issues of support that other Linux based operating systems have. Support by hardware vendors. It looses the sense of what makes Linux Linux though.

You pay for support and some packages.They try and push support off on forums, which any Distro worth its salt has one already.

For average end users this would be as close to prime time as it gets. Since some major retail outlets have sold machines loaded with (Lindows) Linspire. Product recognition hobbled it becoming mainstream. Most did not know what it was and just went with the tried and true name of Microsoft.

I have to admit. When I showed my in laws Linspire, they were intrigued. The funny part they could not think out of the mindset of Windows. After 30 years, Microsoft has a nice foothold. Even Apple does not strike into the average users mind.

-------


greenmaji said:
What will get there attention? (the makers of the hardware and software)
Im stuck on Win2K and don't want to buy a "better" (ROFLMAO) MS OS.

Buying another copy of Win2kpro seems silly to :rolleyes:
That would make for a nice topic for another thread. :D I don't have the answer for that. I honestly wish I did.
 
Enablingwolf said:
Linux as a whole is ready for prime time.. It is what runs in it or on it that is not ready for Linux..
This is the most perfect description of the problem I have ever come across, and says in two short sentences what I couldn't in twice as many posts.

Now how do we get hardware vendors to listen? And how do we get the software and gaming industries to listen?
 
my 2 cents from a linux nooblet...

i tried (tinkered) with a few linux distros, suse 9 pro i believe it was which worked out sort of ok sept for the fact i could find no driver or anything to get my network port working on my mobo other then that had drivers for everything else least that i could see.
i used a few live cds or whatever there called before on a old really crappy machine i had when my good machine was down for the count for a week or so. plack and dyne something but i dont think either one of them count really.

i do read here and there most in these forums about linux always been interested but for the things i do least for a noob like me linux just dont work out.
i take classes online and threw firefox i cant get the window to come up right only in explorer (yes i have the right stuff installed) and if im right i think u could probly get it up someway or whatever lol losing my self here.

i also do alot of gaming (99.9% w.o.w.) and i seen some distros run it but my question is when a update comes out do u have to wait to play it?

i hate xp i went back to 2000 pro, not as pretty but i just like it much better i never have any problems what so ever with anything in 2000 and can leave
my machine running days on end with it.

guess im just posting in hopes one day there will be a noobie friendly linux lol cause i would like to use it because ill have to give up my win 2000 pro and im not really happy with the idea of moving to xp or vista or whatever by then.
 
With proper support from hardware and software manufacturers, I'ld say certain distro's of Linux are fairly ready for the 'prime time'. In saying that, I'ld also say that software limitations as they sit at this time would make it difficult to implement Linux as a primary OS in business. The functionality of production software as a whole is still too limited on a Linux platform, although improvement continue to be made, commercial software companies such as MS and Adobe, as well as others, would need to produce Linux compatible applications to make Linux be widely accepted in the business community.

Now for your average non-gaming home user (ie. not tech geeks), that simply need a system that they can use for email, web surfing, simple photo editing, listening to some music or watching a dvd, etc., I'ld say Linux is ready for them. Taking Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS, since they've been mentioned quite a bit, they have virtually everything mom and pop need, right out of the box. For people not used to working with Windows, I'ld say either distro would be quite easy for them to learn the basics well enough for everyday use. I may even go so far to say it may be easier for someone with no pc know-how to learn than it is for some of us that have been using Windows based computers for years, because they wouldn't have to "un-learn" they ways of Windows. Both afformentioned distro's come complete with web browsers, e-mail clients, word processors, various multi-media software, not to mention better time killers than window's stock games :) .

I won't say there aren't aspects of windows that make it easier to use for the general user. Things like plug-n-play hardware, automatic desktop icon creation when installing virtually any program, automatic codec downloading and installation in media players, automatic updates (which Ubuntu has handled well for me so far), make life easier for the person that doesn't know how, or prefers not to do manually. I'ld imagine that due to the liscensing issues, the problems with codecs will always exsist, and I know for me, as well as many others, it's a hassle to take care of.

Since I haven't been using Linux for very long, I can't comment on hardware recognition issues, all I know is the distro's I've used on this system have had only one issue, and it's one that I had in window's as well. The fix was to simply shut down, unplug my router and cable modem, then plug them back in and boot up so that IP's were resent through the chain.

There's one thing that Linux, in most forms, doesn't supply, and that's going to be the main thing that keeps linux out of the mainstream, regardless of how ready it is, for what I see to be a long long time. That one thing is direct customer support. If something goes wrong with a windows machine, there are many avenues a customer can take to get support. For Linux, as things stand now, the vast majority of support comes from community forums, which for most of us here is no problem at all, but for that 60 year old lady that doesn't even know what a forum is, that's a serious issue. I've had no problems at all finding information on the Ubuntu forums, or their wiki, to do pretty much anything I've wanted to do with it so far, but for the person that doesn't know how to find that information, or who really needs to have someone on the phone walking them through how to do what they need to do, there's no recourse.

[end book\]
 
Enablingwolf said:
That would make for a nice topic for another thread. :D I don't have the answer for that. I honestly wish I did.

Link to this thread you speak of "in the near future tence ;)" :sn:
 
Enablingwolf said:
There is a thread, but not on OCF..

http://www.linuxcompatible.org/compatibility.html

What appears to be a active user base.

http://www.compatdb.org/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

These seem to be getting at the meat and potato's end of the issue (trying to work with the hardware and software to get it to work or "make" it work with linux). I do like the lists of compatable software and hardware however, nice :D

I'm wondering what it would take to persuade hardware and software producers to lend better support to the linux comunity.

It is obvious to many of us that linux is ready for prime time and it is there products that are not (I have a linux box thats been online for about six months now, I know it works ;) ). But how do we (the potential customer of these companies products) convey to them (the producers of these products) that linux (even freebsd) would be worth there time, energy or even there attention.
 
But how do we (the potential customer of these companies products) convey to them (the producers of these products) that linux (even freebsd) would be worth there time, energy or even there attention.

$$$ Savings vs Windows.
 
itshondo said:
I used 2 free distros for a while that also have a commercial version, Suse 10 and Xandros 3.

Xandros was nice, but came hobbled without full CD/DVD burning capability. Easy to install and update.

Suse 10 worked alright with my hardware, but updating was slow and sometimes didn't work at all.

I tried PCLinuxOS and was floored- it did everything those 2 other distros were supposed to do and did everything well. And this is a distro with 1 guy as THE developer, depending upon donations for financial support (yes, i have donated some $).

Apologies for a bit of a thread-jack, but itshondo, you sound like a walking advertisement for PCLinuxOS. Now, im not saying dont encourage users to use it, but of the 4 or 5 posts you have made in here, all but one (the most recent, just before this post) have been giving these glorious astronomical reviews for this Linux Distro. Maybe post something that actually adds to the discussion, and not something that attempts to alienate Linux users who dont use that particular distro out of it? (P.S., sorry if this sounded rude or whatnot, I tried to give my opinion in the nicest and most non-offensive way possible)

Now, on to the discussion. I agree with the statement that Linux itself is ready for prime-time. Just the things which runs upon it are not. But, the same can be said of Windows at times. Why for, when just doing a simple setup, must I spend an hour+ installing, then 2-3 hours finding and installing the latest drivers for every. single. piece. of. hardware. Then, another several hours downloading updates, plus the innumerable reboots associated with each. That in itself could be directly compared to with Linux's quirks at the beginning. But still, in my opinion, given a good distro that is aimed towards the common user (IE, Ubuntu), most of the systems that the common user would be installing Ubuntu on, has full support. Us here, with our top of the line, latest and custom built computers, that has hardware which was released all of 3 seconds ago, cannot honestly complain, when our distro of choice does not support it yet.
 
my quote-

I won't knock other distributions (as I've tried many) but only hope that those frustrated by difficult installs will give it a try.

First and foremost, I made no attempt to alienate any distro, as I said in a post above.

I made my comments based on the Question, "Is Linux ready for prime time?"

To further explain to you or anyone that didn't understand my comments-

I am just a Linux end user. I have found that PCLinuxOS is THE easiest and most complete distro that I have used. Of the distros that I have used- Suse 9, Suse 10, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Mepis, Lycoris, Red Hat, Fedora Core, Mandrake 10, Vector, Knoppix, Xandros, and 5 versions of PCLinuxOS.And I'm talking about using each distro, installed to the hard drive, and using it in a dedicated Linux rig.

I have found PCLinuxOS to be the closest thing to a no-brainer distro for new linux users, with all of the more in-depth functionality of any other distro. Updating is a breeze, with easy package removal and installation through Synaptic and Kpackage.

So I make my recommendations as way to help bring our interested members into using Linux. No other reason than that.

You will find that Linux users are VERY loyal to a specific distro that has worked well for them and their hardware, considering their intentions on usage and experience level.

Customization, building the kernel, compiling a distro from scratch are not what this thread is about- it's really about the Prime Time issue- and it's just my opinion that PCLinuxOS is the closest distro to Prime Time that I, in my limited experience, have used.
 
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Linux has problems with third party support, and until that is resolved, it won't be ready for prime time.

A) The biggest thing, MS Office, so often have I mentioned linux as a possible solution to someone, and the question comes up...can I use Office? Now OpenOffice is great, but the fact is that everyone else is sending out .doc, .xls, and .ppt files, and you need to work with those formats to communicate with people. The writer works alright with Word documents, but the PP and Excel clones are far from ideal. I do hope this will get better because I believe that MS is moving to an Open format with Office 2007, which should make it easier.

B) Drivers
This is especially apparent with video card drivers. ATI especially needs to step their game up. While I see why they won't release their driver source code, they do need reliable drivers that will work all the time without having to edit config files to get working, or even involve the command line at all.

Another part of this is that we need a consolidated video control panel like in Windows. I am dead tired of editing xorg files and restarting the server to see if my changes worked.

C) Applications
Many widely used applications have pathetic linux support if any. Linux has had 64 bit support forever, but you practically can't run 64 bit browsers because there is no flash, shockwave support, and Java is a pita to get running there.

D) Media protection, licensed formats, and closed source programs
Linux has issues with copyright protection and closed formats. Fact is that you can't "legally" watch DVDs, listen to MP3s, or even watch quicktime/wmv files in linux. All of these things are possible due to hacks, with dubious legality. Now some paid distros could certainly license this stuff, but you can't really have a free distro that legally offers this functionality. With HD-DVD and BluRay, HD movies will probably once more pose a challange for linux, someone will no doubt crack it, but it won't be legal.

These are aside from internal issues that I might expand on later.
 
Quick and dirty:

Average-Joe can't install programs in Windows properly without handholding, much less in Linux. All they have to do in windows is double-click on an .exe, click "next" a couple of times (for EULA and setup directory), and it is setup for them.


Don't get me started on how it is done in linux. CLI? Are you kidding me? If they can't do it with a simple mouse-click, don't bother. Synaptic/Other graphical package manager? Are you kidding me? How will average joe know what to look for? All those package names mean jack-squat to Joe-User. Everything needs broken down into simple EXE's or into a simple directory that gives a RECOGNIZABLE name to the program so they don't hafta figure it out from cryptic names. Package managers are confusing enough as is. Joe User would be lost.

There are some basics that average joe needs before linux becomes mainstream.

1. 1 click system update or Auto-update. They don't need to learn multiple steps. Make it simple stupid. 1 click system update, or have it set up for auto-update.

2. Installing programs. It needs to be as easy as 1 click. Not 2 or 3. 1. Click on file, it installs and sets up for them and pops up a window saying "Install Complete". That's it. No worrying about CLI or package managers.

3. Driver support. Another biggie. It needs to be able to plug-in and run, or at least have an easy way built in to install the correct drivers that joe-user can figure out without more than 2 clicks, and without having to learn a million different pacakge names. They need to have a tool that is for Hardware Drivers only, they type in the name of what they have, it will find it for them, and download it for them, and install it. They don't need to have to search through package managers for the file. Same goes for software. They want a MSPaint program? They have a "Software Downloads" program to go to. Type in MSPaint or Paint... and voila.. they are given a list of alternatives to try and use.

Uninstalling software needs to be easier too. Needs to be much more like how MS has it setup. That is quick and easy. Even Joe-User can do it. Keep it like Linux has it now, and Joe-User is gonna be lost fast.

You all give Average Joe-User too much credit. Stop thinking of your own ability and the ability of others around you. Average joe-user is stupid. They can barely keep thier systems operational, much less in the top-shape condition we keep ours in. Average Joe-User doesn't even know what spyware and viruses are! (i'm not kidding, they think every problem with thier computers is a virus, not just bad use by them) They need things to be simple and to hold thier hands all the way through, and to explain in exacting detail what they are doing. They need a system to out Microsoft the guys at Microsoft. MS has done thier OS right. Yes, it may be bloated, but they did it right and made things easy. Linux isn't there yet.

Until linux can get to that point, then it is nothing more than a tinkerer's OS. Windows and Apple OS have both been at that point for years. Linux hasn't reached it yet.
 
Frank you just decribed Linspire. :D

The Click and Run aka - CnR, is easier then MS installs. There was talk about Ubuntu getting the CnR at some point. I am unsure what ever happened to that.

If you ever seen the CnR in action it is not hard whatso ever. Actually it is easier the most install proccesses. It is Linux that feels like MS... with all the down-loadables in one spot.
If you have a spare machine take a peek at dumb linux.. what I call it. I happen to have an account for the full Linspire five-o. They gave it away some time ago for free. Worth the peek at least. Here is a link to freespire "Includes a total development environment, which can be easily expanded using apt-get or CNR."

You can use it like your used to, or go the simple route with the CnR. It is rather flexible in some ways. Though it looses some of what make Linux Linux though. It is super easy to install and keep going.

Linspire.com said:
CNR stands for "click and run". It is a FREE software delivery service designed for Linspire users that makes it easy to install Linux software. With the CNR Service you can install over 20,000 Linux software applications and packages directly from the CNR Warehouse - all with just a single click.
In fact, the CNR Service is the easiest way to install Linux software. Simply click the software you want and it installs on your computer and is ready to run.
And the CNR Service gives you more than just one-click access to tons of free software.
You also get a powerful, easy way to manage your entire software library. Like customizable aisles where you can install entire groups of software with a single click. Perfect for setting up a new computer!
Here is the warehouse.


You just browse what you need and click it.. It's that easy. It is a GUI inside the OS but it is just as easy to use the product pages.
 
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