Lapping my AIOS waterblock ? Yeaay or Naay

[Silver Surfer]

Lapping a water block base may also mean you need to lap the CPU heat spreader, because of the Intel and AMD cup in the heat spreader you will now probably not have even contact across the heat spreader, you'll need to test fit the mounting thermal footprint and see what the coverage looks like. As far as the metal shavings just clean them out if the pump is still running and use an automotive type all metal coolant to replace the coolant in the AIO.

Lapping can always improve cooling performance from the stock finish of the water block base but that depends on whether you know when enough is enough, and if you haven't quite done enough, the results could be worse if a preformed curve is in the water block base. Some of the water blocks with various jet plates for either AMD or Intel use affected the bow curvature of the water block base, but AIOs are probably set curvature as it's more advantageous for the manufacturing process. You have to take the manufacturers business mindset into account when it comes to mass producing these things, after all they are a cheap cooling solution compared to a custom water cooling loop.

As far as Liquid Metal products they do have their niche, and do an excellent job of thermal interface, but they also have their ideal place of use. But any user needs to be aware that it's not really recommended for mounting an AIO or any stock water block to a CPU heat spreader because of how difficult it is to remove. For that something like Gelid GC Xtreme is one of the best thermal compounds you can get.

I salute the OP because even when faced with negative replies he already knew in his heart what he wanted to do, and went ahead and did it, so now simply clean out the shavings flush the radiator, reassemble, refill, and you're back in business. Just make sure of what your thermal footprint looks like as you may need to lap the CPUs heat spreader and 9 times out of 10 the heat spreader surface is also marked by the Liquid metal and it's warranty is already gone as well.

For the record those swirls you are talking about are NOT due to poor machining. These same machine marks are found on several other major manufacturers' heatsinks. It's not indicative of poor quality.

Just indicative of manufacturing expense and to what level of finish each manufacturer is willing to bankroll.

 

[maxfly]

is the block making better contact now? the first pic of the ihs after mounting looked pretty awful.

 

[EarthDog]

Depending on one looks lol, well you must be blind. A spiral surface like that doesnt equate to more surface area touching.. Think about that for a second.. You got 2000 ridges and 2000 ditchs.. You take a flat surface and lay it on top.. 2000 ridges are touching the flat surface, 2000 ditches arent. You shave all the ridges down to be flat with the ditch and what do you have then ? More surface area as its all even now.. where the hell did you conclude that ? Why is every cpu block and gpu block polished, yet an AIO block isnt ?

If we went by what you saidd you might as well take a metalic brush like this to your IHS and heatsink base im sure 10 million deep scratchs will add more surface area as well... "LOGIC"

As for testing, and mounting.. Its kinda hard to MISS mount a flat block on a flat IHS with 4 screws tightend lightly and then in a X pattern especially a mounting design with no springs... I also used 2 different pastes. Ive been mounting blocks on pcs for 20 years dont insult me man..... I ran all the same test at the same auto settings 20 times, including prime 95 the temps are 5-6c colder.. My room temp hasnt changed. The point of thermal paste as you know is to fill is in the grooves and scratches and micro scratchs you cant see to make for a better contact area. Thermal paste was doing its job with those swirls, but there was LESS hard surface area..

Now maybe your more surface area logic is measuring the distance from the ridges to the ditchs and adding that up.. youll have more "square" footage if that makes sense.. But there is less surface area touching the flat IHS.. The thermal paste will also fill in the swirls making that surface area increase Nigh

Explain to me why this block is mirror polish and the AIO wasnt.. The fin design is the same. If the swirls were better they would have done it to this block as well. Im betting the swirls are a machining process to make things cheap and mass produce them. Why waste time polishing the heatplate on an AIO

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XYTBKD8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


View attachment 199875

Did i say touching? I said more surface area.

Regardless how much you sand it down, the surface isnt flat on the ihs or base of the block and has grooves in it. The paste fills in those tiny gaps.

Anyway, congrats on your results and unfortunate findings. I hope they take it back, but after hacking it up like that, id be surprised if they did (even with your threat out of the gate of saying this is on a forum).

 

[Silver Surfer]

I hope they take it back

I don't!

If an individual takes it upon themselves to knowing change or modify a part or component, IMO, they've bought IT, they should man up, and take responsibility for their actions, and eat the loss!

In all the experimentation I have done through the years attempting to get a functional and successful chilled water cooling system there were many failures, but I not the first time ever sent anything back I had modified, Period!

 

[EarthDog]

Well, for his sake anyway... just trying to be nice honestly.

Even with the $20 Microcenter warranty plan, that doesn't cover physically taking the thing apart. And if (anyone) tries to return something and lies that they did not take it apart (not saying the OP did/will do so, note) is shady as hell...

 

[Lochekey]

So let me get this straight.

You went out and bought an aio that performs ok and has a known curvature in the cold plate as can be found in reviews. After being disappointed in the performance you decided to modify the system and after achieving better performance decide you are still not happy and now want to return it because the performance of the product from factory does not match your modified performance or the performance of higher end parts.

This is like going out and buying a mid tier Taurus, deciding it does not perform like the Shelby you really wanted. So you decide to mount a Turbo and NOS kit on it and are then able to match the Shelbys' performance. After all of this though you decide that the manufacturer should have given you a Shelby even though you paid for a Taurus so you try to return the now modified vehicle because it actually performed to what was advertised.

Does this sound about right?

 

[Cnaydmancangt]

Yea i found out last night aparently all the AIO's use the same plate/pump.. So its whoever they are leasing these from is doing that

- - - Updated - - -

So let me get this straight.

You went out and bought an aio that performs ok and has a known curvature in the cold plate as can be found in reviews. After being disappointed in the performance you decided to modify the system and after achieving better performance decide you are still not happy and now want to return it because the performance of the product from factory does not match your modified performance or the performance of higher end parts.

This is like going out and buying a mid tier Taurus, deciding it does not perform like the Shelby you really wanted. So you decide to mount a Turbo and NOS kit on it and are then able to match the Shelbys' performance. After all of this though you decide that the manufacturer should have given you a Shelby even though you paid for a Taurus so you try to return the now modified vehicle because it actually performed to what was advertised.

Does this sound about right?

Did i say i was returning it ?> QUOTE IT MOFO.. I said IF i wanted to return to it i could in 20 minutes.. Also i dont need to buy a car like that i already have a 700HP 2016 camaro i bought new that ive spent another $25,000 cash modifying.. Im sure you wish you had that amount of cash dont you

- - - Updated - - -

Well, for his sake anyway... just trying to be nice honestly.

Even with the $20 Microcenter warranty plan, that doesn't cover physically taking the thing apart. And if (anyone) tries to return something and lies that they did not take it apart (not saying the OP did/will do so, note) is shady as hell...

No offense earthdog, but i never said i was returning it.. I just edited my nasty reply.. In the end your comments arent worth a reply because in the end i didnt say i was returning it. I spent the effort and money and time to lap it.. why would I ? I dont expect TT to return it.. frankly i dont want em too. What i want is a reply and explanation from them to why the liquid has metal particles in it and so forth.. Thats why i said if i wanted to return it.. I could and i could do it in 20 minutes.. vs waiting weeks for an RMA.. But you and a few others assumed im returning it.. and your assumptions need to stop


So for the final flipping time, IM NOT RETURNING IT, I SAID I COULD IF I WANTED BIG DIFFERENCE. I like this AIO the heat plate was just crap and the lapping fixed it end of the discussion on this matter..


It was my decision, my money, my computer and frankly $175 is nothing to me. Im the one who was assaulted by the know it alls saying it didnt need a lap. I did it anyway and my results speak for themselves. The metal particles in the liquid. I can flush that out. 99% of you claim an AIO is sealed and cant be changed out. Thats because youre took chicken to actually do it. I could take this apart again remove the pump from the LEDS jump the pump in a container of water and flush it out in 5 minutes and fill it back up with Antifreeze and never worry about it again. Because remember this liquid is propolene glycol thats all it is.. But some of you are not intelligent enough to get that.

Thanks for the help when i got back into PC's but i am not an idiot. Ive been doing this longer then some of you have been alive i bet

 

[Cnaydmancangt]

Lapping a water block base may also mean you need to lap the CPU heat spreader, because of the Intel and AMD cup in the heat spreader you will now probably not have even contact across the heat spreader, you'll need to test fit the mounting thermal footprint and see what the coverage looks like. As far as the metal shavings just clean them out if the pump is still running and use an automotive type all metal coolant to replace the coolant in the AIO.

Lapping can always improve cooling performance from the stock finish of the water block base but that depends on whether you know when enough is enough, and if you haven't quite done enough, the results could be worse if a preformed curve is in the water block base. Some of the water blocks with various jet plates for either AMD or Intel use affected the bow curvature of the water block base, but AIOs are probably set curvature as it's more advantageous for the manufacturing process. You have to take the manufacturers business mindset into account when it comes to mass producing these things, after all they are a cheap cooling solution compared to a custom water cooling loop.

As far as Liquid Metal products they do have their niche, and do an excellent job of thermal interface, but they also have their ideal place of use. But any user needs to be aware that it's not really recommended for mounting an AIO or any stock water block to a CPU heat spreader because of how difficult it is to remove. For that something like Gelid GC Xtreme is one of the best thermal compounds you can get.

I salute the OP because even when faced with negative replies he already knew in his heart what he wanted to do, and went ahead and did it, so now simply clean out the shavings flush the radiator, reassemble, refill, and you're back in business. Just make sure of what your thermal footprint looks like as you may need to lap the CPUs heat spreader and 9 times out of 10 the heat spreader surface is also marked by the Liquid metal and it's warranty is already gone as well.



Just indicative of manufacturing expense and to what level of finish each manufacturer is willing to bankroll.

I didnt use LM on the 2700x just the 4790k. I dont think Ill be lapping the IHS just yet. Im giving the AS5 day or two to warm up and cool down and ima check the footprint again. I dont think the heat plate on the aio is curved though, i think its the IHS because i didnt have this horrible contact with the 4790k. So ill probly have to lap that IHS as well..

Oh but i gatta be careful saying that.. Ill void my warranty and some people here might get nasty over that.

 

[EarthDog]

I suggest settling down quite a bit. The insults are not acceptable here.

As far as you returning it it was alluded to. Please understand our confusion. I mean you put up two threads that are essentially ranting about the performance of the thing and say this below.....

Because in the end they cant stop me from returning it.. If i wanted i could simply make the drive to micro center and return it and get a different setup

If you wanted... I get it... but considering the entire context of a Ryzen 2 with AIO $4K build (how did you spend 4K on a Ryzen 2 build???!!!!) and the rants, please do understand why more than one of us was confused.

That out of the way, you go with your bad internet self. Like SS, I think its cool you dug down into the thing, but it seemed like returning it was part of the deal in all the ranting about it. Apologies for that. But you really need to cool off and stop the insults. It is against the forum rules.

 

[Cnaydmancangt]

I suggest settling down quite a bit. The insults are not acceptable here.

As far as you returning it it was alluded to. Please understand our confusion. I mean you put up two threads that are essentially ranting about the performance of the thing and say this below.....


If you wanted... I get it... but considering the entire context of a Ryzen 2 with AIO $4K build (how did you spend 4K on a Ryzen 2 build???!!!!) and the rants, please do understand why more than one of us was confused.

That out of the way, you go with your bad internet self. Like SS, I think its cool you dug down into the thing, but it seemed like returning it was part of the deal in all the ranting about it.

Oh i edited my post.. But stop with the assumptions.. Again its a forum in the end if i get banned it wouldnt be the end of the world.. Im not one to take assaults from like you guys did with your stupid assumptions of me returning it.. I was simply upset over the build quality and i asked if itd be worth lapping it.. Everyone said no, but i did it anyway and it works.

I spent $4,000 on a $400 monitor, 820$ video card, 300$ cpu, 210 motherboard, $175 aio, $150 for 5 RGB fans, $170 for the case, $80 for the keyboard, $80 for the mouse, $350 for the headphones, $190 for the memory, 17$ on the ripoff coolant, $180 for the DS5 140 pump, $80 for the PE 360 radiatior, $31 on the tubing, 40$ for the fittings, $190 on the 1080ti waterblock, $25 on thermal paste, $20 on liquid metal, $15 for the vertical PCI-E extender, $ 150 in gas driving to microcenter in my classic car with a 360CU engine that gets 10mpg lol. $30 on various cables. $170 for the sound card, $250 for the 1tb SSD im sure im missing other stuff. I think Ill get a nvme drive as well.. Oh and i spent $100 on warhammer total war 2 and all its DLCs but that wasnt really pc parts lol just added expense as i was building

Thats how i spent $4,000, i may have more money then probably most of you guys but i do have budgets too.. I have 20 other hobbies i blow thousands on like my cars, my aquariums and so forth.. on so i cant just buy the best of everything thats why i originally tried to budget stuff like i didnt want to spend $300 on a mobo or that $30-40 extra on a 8700k.... I started from ground 0 on everything. Those PC's you see in videos on youtube arent $1,000 computers. They are a couple grand at least.. you forget sometimes an upgrade isnt just a cpu/mobo/memory and video card.. And i spent all this using CASH.. oh i could have gotten a 8700k or a titan X or an I9 cpu and kept my 12 year old case and 25 year old mouse/keyboard and so forth ect but i wanted to start from scratch all new everything.

Again i dont see where you got that assumption.. My rant was over their build quality the crappy unfinished plate, the metal chunks in the liquid.. It was others who suggested that i call them, so i did.. But thats why i said if i wanted to return it i could easily and i wouldnt go through them

 

[EarthDog]

what do you guys think of the evga clc280 AIO it seems to have a bwat cooling of any AIO out there.. Its jist noisier and not flashy like the riing 360.. Its also cheaper too.. By 70$ microcenter said i could swap em when i went today.. Eveb without the box.

I mean, you said this after you took the pump apart... ^^

Its not a reach to think it was a possibility... let's be real.

Again i dont see where you got that assumption.. My rant was over their build quality..

I shared EXACTLY where I got it from. Between that passage and your other rants, more than one of us felt the writing was on the wall. We misunderstood... it happens. But that is no reason to post a rant like you have and insult others. Now, please, apologies for the confusion... move on.

 

[Cnaydmancangt]

I mean, you said this after you took the pump apart... ^^

Its not a reach to think it was a possibility... let's be real.

I shared EXACTLY where I got it from. Between that passage and your other rants, more than one of us felt the writing was on the wall. We misunderstood... it happens. But that is no reason to post a rant like you have and insult others. Now, please, apologies for the confusion... move on.

Taking it back was in the back of my mind thats why i was inquiring to do it.. But in the end i like the AIO lol it matchs my thermaltake theme going on the temps just sucked ***.. I plan to take it apart again to flush that crap outa the liquid. If i returned it though you may think ima slimeball but in the end I couldnt careless just saying.

Sorry for the insults but i get real defensive real fast. Putting up with ppls bs is not something let fly by me in real life or otherwise. I say whats on my mind ina heartbeat. Ill tone it down though sorry

 

[Silver Surfer]

you forget sometimes an upgrade isnt just a cpu/mobo/memory and video card.

It can be if you look at water cooling as an individual investment that can be swapped out to your new setup, and get good quality water cooling components that actually are overkill to get the job done.

What may be serious overkill today, may just get you by 2 or 3 years from now so you're actually building for the future.

Radiators, Pumps, and Reservoirs, last a long time but you may end up getting a different CPU or GPU water block.

But not the entire system that's why you need to look at water cooling as an individual investment.

Any time you build a full new setup from scratch, and then decide to add water cooling to it trying to stay within a set budget, something is going to be compromised somewhere, and you'll usually end up dissatisfied.

At least from my own experience that's happened to me.

Once I realized the half stepping was costing a lot of added up money, and most of the parts ended up on the shelves gathering dust.

I decided to take water cooling as a totally separate entity and invest the money into it and not cut any corners, save up if you have to, then the end result is very satisfying.

@Cnaydmancangt

I just wanted to say directly to you that you remind me of myself when I first got serious here, some of the guys rubbed me the wrong way and I went ballistic!

Try to chill out and breathe, because there are a lot of great guys here, and plenty of really good information and IMO, you'll be a good member as long as you don't self destruct, OK.

Ryan

 

[EarthDog]

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Cnaydmancangt]

It can be if you look at water cooling as an individual investment that can be swapped out to your new setup, and get good quality water cooling components that actually are overkill to get the job done.

What may be serious overkill today, may just get you by 2 or 3 years from now so you're actually building for the future.

Radiators, Pumps, and Reservoirs, last a long time but you may end up getting a different CPU or GPU water block.

But not the entire system that's why you need to look at water cooling as an individual investment.

Any time you build a full new setup from scratch, and then decide to add water cooling to it trying to stay within a set budget, something is going to be compromised somewhere, and you'll usually end up dissatisfied.

At least from my own experience that's happened to me.

Once I realized the half stepping was costing a lot of added up money, and most of the parts ended up on the shelves gathering dust.

I decided to take water cooling as a totally separate entity and invest the money into it and not cut any corners, save up if you have to, then the end result is very satisfying.

@Cnaydmancangt

I just wanted to say directly to you that you remind me of myself when I first got serious here, some of the guys rubbed me the wrong way and I went ballistic!

Try to chill out and breathe, because there are a lot of great guys here, and plenty of really good information and IMO, you'll be a good member as long as you don't self destruct, OK.

Ryan

edited. ill send it to a pm instead