Need help OCing my e8400 (3.0Ghz Dual core) past 3.9Ghz

[wolfdale7]

Hi there!

My '09 machine is still running, and I've been meaning to push it to its limits since last year. Recently I scored a free copy of BF4 and I'm interested in finding out how far I can go with what I have (instead of having to buy a new system).

My specs:
MOTHERBOARD: EVGA nForce 750i SLI Motherboard -NVIDIA nForce 750i - http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4240124&CatId=3495
PROCESSOR: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037
MEMORY: Patriot Viper II 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Desktop Memory (X2=8gb) - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220426
GPU: EVGA 896-P3-1255-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130434


I know specs are a tad old, but I rarely game anymore, and this system glides through whatever I've thrown at it to date!

I'm a total noob when it comes to overclocking. This is my first attempt at doing so and I'm hoping to reach 4.5Ghz (or at least best the 4Ghz mark). I know the performance difference between 3.9 and 4.0 is negligible (1-2%?), but I do want to see what this guy is capable of doing!

Here's what I got so far:

Idle temps: 35 Celsius
Load temps: 45 Celsius

*note* I've set CPU core to 1.312 V, but I think Vdroop is increasing/decreasing it according to what it thinks is best.. CPU idles at 1.312V for some reason, but as soon as load is added, it drops to 1.296. Perhaps I should just disable Vdroop...

I've tried bringing up the core voltage (up to 1.4v) and tried increasing ram voltage (up to 2.15). Even went ahead and underclocked the ram to see if cutting some slack does anything, but nope...

I've been able to run prime95 stable with a similar setup for over 24 hours (only difference is that RAM was clocked .1V lower than what it's at now (2.0V now)).

Is my RAM or MOBO holding me back? Every time I increase the the FSB to > 444.44, I hit a boot loop with Windows. The BIOS posts, but soonafter I get an option to run startup recovery or boot into windows normally. When I select either option, I get a "Windows is Loading Files" screen with a bar right above it. Sometimes the bar doesn't complete and just hangs at that screen. Other times the bar fills up, and computer just boots all over again -- starting at BIOS post.

I'm not too sure what's left to try... I don't mind taking my CPU Core voltage up to 1.6.. I know it'll damage my processor, but truth be told, I'm looking to building a system within the next year. I'm willing to take some risk, but would like to avoid if possible (at least until I've build my next system).


Anyone have any suggestions?

On a (un?)related note, as I was stress testing my computer today while at school (just decided to run another 24/hr stress test for reasons unbeknownst to me..), my computer crashed and a BIOS error was left once it booted.

Lately I haven't received any BSODs, but this may be related to some voltage change. I'll run another 24hr stress test tomorrow and see if this is a recurring issue. If not, I'm just going to let it slide.



Here are the details of the BSOD:

Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name:	BlueScreen
  OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
  Locale ID:	1033

Additional information about the problem:
  BCCode:	3b
  BCP1:	00000000C0000005
  BCP2:	FFFFF960000F79DF
  BCP3:	FFFFF8800E7C7FF0
  BCP4:	0000000000000000
  OS Version:	6_1_7601
  Service Pack:	1_0
  Product:	768_1

Files that help describe the problem:
  C:\Windows\Minidump\111413-27019-01.dmp
  C:\Users\Wolf\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-60091-0.sysdata.xml

I'd appreciate help tackling OCing my CPU past 4.0Ghz if anyone has any input!

Thanks a lot =]

 

[funsoul]

What kind of cooling are you using? You've got some headroom. Try 1.47v, set your ram timings but leave every other ram setting on auto, bump the nb voltage by .2-.3v, add .1-.2v to vtt and see where that gets you.

Also...try booting at around 400fsb and see how far you can raise it using setfsb.

 

[Tech Tweaker]

I doubt your problem is memory. As long as you keep it within its specs you shouldn't have a problem. You shouldn't really need more than 2.0-2.1V so long as you're not running some massive overclock on the memory.

It's unlikely to be the board, because that was a fairly high-end board when it came out.

Hitting 4.5GHz though with that CPU is pretty much impossible. You would need some really good cooling (water cooling custom loop at the very least) to get that kind of overclock, and then you would need a lot of voltage to run it like that.

Something like 4.2-4.3GHz is much more attainable. Personally, I wouldn't push it past 1.45V. If you hit 1.6V with air cooling you WILL most likely kill the CPU very quickly.

I'm surprised you're running 3.9GHz with just 1.29V, I needed 1.45V for mine to be stable at the same speed. The BSOD is likely because of not enough voltage to the CPU, try increasing to 1.35V and see if it's stable then.

The issue with not booting might be related to the chipset (northbridge) not getting enough voltage for the FSB (front side bus) setting.

What kind of cooling have you got on the CPU? Could you upload some pictures of your setup?

 

[funsoul]

Tech Tweaker's a much more experienced overclocker. Anything he recommends should definitely supercede anything I've posted. Just checked some old results with an e8500 (no results yet for an e8400, sorry) and have to correct my prior comment and agree that around 1.45v should be max. At 1.4v on air (with a good cooler), my e8500 used to peak at 79C.

 

[wolfdale7]

I doubt your problem is memory. As long as you keep it within its specs you shouldn't have a problem. You shouldn't really need more than 2.0-2.1V so long as you're not running some massive overclock on the memory.

It's unlikely to be the board, because that was a fairly high-end board when it came out.

Hitting 4.5GHz though with that CPU is pretty much impossible. You would need some really good cooling (water cooling custom loop at the very least) to get that kind of overclock, and then you would need a lot of voltage to run it like that.

Something like 4.2-4.3GHz is much more attainable. Personally, I wouldn't push it past 1.45V. If you hit 1.6V with air cooling you WILL most likely kill the CPU very quickly.

I'm surprised you're running 3.9GHz with just 1.29V, I needed 1.45V for mine to be stable at the same speed. The BSOD is likely because of not enough voltage to the CPU, try increasing to 1.35V and see if it's stable then.

The issue with not booting might be related to the chipset (northbridge) not getting enough voltage for the FSB (front side bus) setting.

What kind of cooling have you got on the CPU? Could you upload some pictures of your setup?

Thanks funsoul for your help =]

@Tech Tweaker:

I use a Noctua NH-U12P. Had to force it in my case. The locking mechanism of the Noctua fans on the heatsink works using 2 steel clips that protrude towards the top and bottom. The tip of the steel clips kept hitting my top-mounted case fan. I had to bend the steel clips to the side to avoid damaging the case fan. Anywayyyy...

I've read about loads of chips hitting 4.5Ghz+, even with air. Heck, you don't see the 5Ghz until about 300 rankings in on hwbot (and there are still plenty of air-cooled ones up around the 300 mark): http://hwbot.org/benchmark/cpu_frequency/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_1512#start=0#interval=20

It's incredible to see guys doubling the clock speed altogether though!

Below, I've attached a few photos of my setup.

What do you suggest I try? I'm sure my set-up is stable as-is (and if not, all it needs is just a little nudge w/ the CPU voltage as you suggested). Been running Prime95 for the past 3 hours with no errors or crashes

@funsoul's suggestion
Voltage wise, I don't have much to play with. The only voltage settings I see are:
EVGA VDroop control (off/on)
CPU Core
CPU FSB
Memory
nForce SPP
NF200 Voltage level

and GTLVRED (Lanes 0-3): all set on auto (+00mv).

Would the NB voltage be the nForce SPP? or would it be the CPU FSB?
I don't think I can change up the VTT voltage (unless EVGA named it something completely different)..

I've already upped my CPU voltage to > 1.4, but no dice.

Been at this for days -- trying to figure out why I can't go above 4.00Ghz (and why 3.9? Magic number? )

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Okay, yes 4.5GHz can be done with air cooling. BUT, it does require a lot of voltage and some really good cooling to keep temperatures in check. I just went and looked and saw voltages varying from 1.43-1.68V to achieve 4.5GHz at HWBot. It's not a guaranteed overclock, and the voltages required to make it stable can vary greatly depending upon the quality of the particular CPU (or maybe just a particular batch of CPU's being better than the others). For most people this wouldn't be a 24/7 overclock though, at the voltages I'm seeing the CPU lifespan would deteriorate quickly at 1.4V+. This is more of a run a few quick benchmarks and then step it down to a lower clock speed for everyday usage kind of overclock.

I have something I suggest you try. Back the CPU multiplier down to 7x, set the FSB to 445MHz, and make sure you have the memory clock set at or below it's limit (preferably below). This is a test to see if the motherboard is the limitation on the overclock, based upon whether it can handle this bus speed and remain stable. If it's stable, raise it up again, the next time to 456MHz and test again. Then 467, and after that 478. This is a way to find your board's limit, it takes a while with all of the testing, but it's a proven method. Once you find the limit try raising the northbridge/FSB voltage a bit (by .1V lets say) and see if things improve.

Also, the 500MHz FSB setting required to achieve that 4.5GHz clock speed cannot be done by all LGA775 boards. I've owned probably a half dozen 775 boards and so far none of them have been able to achieve 500MHz. My 790i Ultra SLI can't even do it. Most of the ones I've owned have topped out around 445-450MHz.

It seems at least that CPU cooling will not be a problem for you in this case, that's good. Although the small chipset cooler on that board does worry me a bit that heat may be an issue there.

 

[wolfdale7]

Okay, yes 4.5GHz can be done with air cooling. BUT, it does require a lot of voltage and some really good cooling to keep temperatures in check. I just went and looked and saw voltages varying from 1.43-1.68V to achieve 4.5GHz at HWBot. It's not a guaranteed overclock, and the voltages required to make it stable can vary greatly depending upon the quality of the particular CPU (or maybe just a particular batch of CPU's being better than the others). For most people this wouldn't be a 24/7 overclock though, at the voltages I'm seeing the CPU lifespan would deteriorate quickly at 1.4V+. This is more of a run a few quick benchmarks and then step it down to a lower clock speed for everyday usage kind of overclock.

I have something I suggest you try. Back the CPU multiplier down to 7x, set the FSB to 445MHz, and make sure you have the memory clock set at or below it's limit (preferably below). This is a test to see if the motherboard is the limitation on the overclock, based upon whether it can handle this bus speed and remain stable. If it's stable, raise it up again, the next time to 456MHz and test again. Then 467, and after that 478. This is a way to find your board's limit, it takes a while with all of the testing, but it's a proven method. Once you find the limit try raising the northbridge/FSB voltage a bit (by .1V lets say) and see if things improve.

Also, the 500MHz FSB setting required to achieve that 4.5GHz clock speed cannot be done by all LGA775 boards. I've owned probably a half dozen 775 boards and so far none of them have been able to achieve 500MHz. My 790i Ultra SLI can't even do it. Most of the ones I've owned have topped out around 445-450MHz.

It seems at least that CPU cooling will not be a problem for you in this case, that's good. Although the small chipset cooler on that board does worry me a bit that heat may be an issue there.

Wow you're quick!

So here's some good/bad news. Good news is that we found out what's limiting my OC. Bad news? We found out what's limiting my OC.. It's the board. I took down the ram and set the CPU FSB at 445. Couldn't boot at all into Windows. Went ahead and put everything @ stock (except the CPU FSB), and still... No luck.


So I take it there isn't much I can do at this point that doesn't involve picking up a new board? Guess 3.9Ghz is what I'm topped at (or is there something I'm missing that I could try)?


I can't believe I forgot just how important a board is in the OC process! It's not that I'm upset about not getting past 4.00, but just I didn't think that the board would affect progress. Now I can see why .


So if there truely is nothing else I can do, maybe I should look into a new system.

Lately I've been getting back into video and photo design. Used to work with After Affects and Premiere Pro a LOT a few years back, and the urge to play around with some video editing is hitting me hard again!
Plus, I've got a bud who works as a sales promoter for Intel. Can get some really sweet deals on various processors.

Would you suggest going the 4820K or 4770K route? I understand that the 4820K is going to be a tad more expensive, esp. when it comes to mobo selection. I'm looking to spend around $1000 for the tower itself. My GPU card is on lifetime warranty. I'm patiently waiting for it to die so I can get a new replacement from EVGA. As I mentioned, CPU wise, I'm looking at saving maybe 540-60% of retail price. It appears as though from where I stand, I'll still have plenty to splurge on graphics, memory, and motherboard parts. It's been a while since I built a PC for myself (although I did build a Haswell i5 rig for a friend of mine this past summer)... Any suggestions on what might preform well stock, and have lots of room for OC down the road?


Thanks for helping me find the culprit! Trying to see how far I can push before it hits that boot loop

 

[sobe]

If you are buying now, 4770k has my vote.

Nice to see someone trying to get the most out of their E8400 though, such a great little chip! Good memories of that little beauty for sure.

 

[funsoul]

Another alternative would be a better yet cheap 775 mobo. I've got an x38 asus maximus formula that I could let go for pretty cheap (like around $55+shipping). Haven't benched it out so no guarantee on max fsb but it'd be a lot cheaper than a whole new rig. Also have a non-working p5q pro that I could give you for the cost of shipping. Had it just over 488fsb (hit heat limit so am sure it had more to give) before it stopped posting.

You can also check here ( http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=739507 )...Zim241 might cut you a deal on his p5q-e.

There are also a couple p5b deluxe boards here: http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2474