New System, New Person.... New Requirements For Posting a Reply

[gnas]

Hello all,

I've refrained from posting only because I didn't want to show my noobness, but times are difficult and I must because when it comes to toys I'm rather impulsive and needy.

Therefore, unlike some of the other posts here, I don't just want simple answers if you will, I'd really like explanations. Please accept my thanks prior since this isn't easy to ask.

I've been lurking here for the past month or so just trying to soak up as much as I can so when I do join the community I'll be able to contribute rather than just post "nice rig".

I'm not rich so I'm trying to build a budget based system with good parts. I'm taking my existing 939 x2 system and gutting it. I'll be replacing the Motherboard Ram and CPU. I've already purchased some starting 1066 based ram but now need the motherboard and the cpu.

I must admit I have my heart set on the Q6600 buuuut I can be convinced otherwise if the argument is good. Basically I'd like you to talk to me about my proposed system requirements and questions.

The motherboard I can't decide on, I've chosen DDR2 so I can't chose a X48 board, but there's some good overclockers like the P35 Line. It seems like whenever one person asks what motherboard to chose the first person speaks a title then everyone sucessive repeats the same thing. Following that post is another one much like it and it's a different motherboard. Finally if I give options people choose from the options and don't recommend anything outside of that. Catch-22.

Sorry I've read alot of posts and I'm being driven nuts.


My goal is simple but difficult. I'd like to build a (Q6600) system where I can reach 3.6ghz on air, it will act as a desktop and an encoding machine. It will run my games and idle with the best of em. Stability and Speed at a fraction of the cost.

I'll be the first to say (About myself): "damn man you be insane. Good and Cheap aint synonyms.".


What kills me is:

I'll need a G0 SLACR Chip but should I also look for a specific Series Model(Batch)? What about a Vid? What is a Vid? Can I ask companies to look for me? What should I really be looking for?

One thread mentions the GA-P35-DS3R as being good while three entries beneath it mentions the Abit IP35 Pro. Finally when I look up I find Abit threads mentioning the service is crap and their boards have failed. I understand for every good post about a company there's usually 5 bad so I keep things understood with a grain of salt... or a bucket... not sure which.

I've looked at Asus P5K Deluxe WiFi pretty hard and it looks like a good board but not many people recommend it. While I'm sure there's someone out there but the search feature on this site doesn't allow me to do more than 1 search every 15 seconds so I'm limited in how much I can absorb

Finally, is the Q6600 really the way to go? I mean, and I know I know here I go again about what I should get, I want it to last a decent time and treat my games well, does the thing soar at 3.6ghz? Is it even feasible?

Anyways I have a million questions I could go on and on. I don't think anyone wants to hear me machine gun em, so if anything you could write that'd be great. I'm trying to avoid the "get this because it rocks". Unfortunately as a noob that doesn't help me learn why you chose it. Why does it rock?
I don't plan on this being the last pc I overclock but if I wreck things my first time I believe I'll be discouraged in trying things out again.

On the other hand I'm an avid system builder this being my 15th in total built and know my way around things, so while a noob, I'm sure I'll understand you and won't waste any of your time.


_G

 

[kayson]

I understand where you're coming from. The thing you need to realize is that you'll be happy with whatever you build simply because you have nothing to compare it to. You can spend tons of time looking at benchmarks and reviews trying to find the absolute best deal, but it really isn't worth the aggravation. I used to do that, but I take a simpler approach:
1. Go to Newegg.com
2. For each component, use the power search, then sort by best rating, then most reviews
3. Based on best rating/most reviews/price, check a review or 2 just to make sure there are no serious issues with the product
4. Buy!

Another useful tool is the "best _____ for your money" articles you can find on various tech websites. Toms Hardware puts out one of those for video cards every so often. A lot of people bash TH, but it has the benchmarks so why not use the resource. It will give you the best component at a given price range.

A few questions for you: What's your target price? What is your main use of the rig going to be?

You actually can get X48 with DDR2:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284
Its pricey though.

For a P35 board the two I would recommend are the GA-P35-DS3R and the P5K Deluxe Wifi. Ultimately, all the P35 boards will serve you well, but those two brands are usually solid.

You can find great DDR2 for dirt cheap prices. Search newegg for gskill 2x1gb ddr2-800 and you should find some for $50 with decent timings and solid reviews

As far as a hard drive goes, I'd get one of the new 7200.10. Again you can spend all day picking a brand but they'll all do you well. It should boil down to the best deal.

Good luck!

 

[gnas]

kayson,

Thanks for the reply!

Basically the target rig is going to be used for games, and video encoding. I suspect the games will take a hit because dual core technology is well past quad core technology when it comes to game processing. Very few actually use SMP Coding Vs the encoding field. Encoding the quad core should soar like the eagle it wishes it really was.

I can't trust newegg, while there's thousands of rating on some items people are people. I've worked in the field long enough to know that people can't recognize good from better. People recognize working. Period. If it works the product is great, sure it may take a hit here and there and there may be a dimond in the rough but I came to this forum looking for the pro's. The people who'd rather overclock their dog if they could make it fetch faster.

I've done alot of research and I'll continue to do so because I want to get the best for my money. While cheep is what I'm looking for it's more of an issue of peformance for the buck rather than don't spend 20 bucks to ensure your mobo will last 3y vs 10 days.

Now I ask, why did you recommend those two boards?

The Ram and the HD I got already as well as a solid 500w PS.

 

[Neuromancer]

P35 is pretty dstandard fare wit ha Q6600 and lots of ram. Onloy thing you really need to look for is how clean the power is to the CPU (read 8 phase is really good) I believe gigabyte makes a flase claim about having a motherboard with 16phase power but when it was reviewed its actually split 8phase power.. not really 16 phases) More phases = more stability under load.

Gaming is the key heere though

Any card will work on any motherboard in single GPU configuration (realtively speaking of course, not AGP on a PCIE board) but if you think that you will ever go with a dual card configuration you may want to broaden your search a little. (IE nVidia chipsets for SLI, x48 for highend crossfire etc)

Quads are not guarenteed to do 3600 no matter what VID or stepping you get. The odds might be in your favor, but without getting a tested chip from someone else no one can build you a 3600mhz quadcore system, especially not on a budget.


Good PSU, CPU and GPU. You only need a great mobo or ram if you need that 500MHz FSB which you will not need with a quad. I do not know if they are still on sale but the new ballistix 2GB 800mhz 4-4-4 ram was only 20-25 dollars (AMIR) for at least a month, can probably still dig something up real cheap like that


EDIT: If you multitask, the quad core is the better gamers choice. If you have nothing running in hte background, the dual core is the better gmaers choice. Do the quad though, half the encoding time = more game playing time Or set the encoding to 2 cores and game on the other 2

 

[gnas]

Neur0mancer,

Thanks for the reply! I really am learning quite a bit here.

The followup question to your reply may sound stupid but why aren't all the chips the same? They're all made by the same manufacturing standard, and generally the only thing that changed is the Silicon Plate that is used to make them right? So what makes one batch better than the next?

I have a good PSU right now, so I guess the next step would be to ask if the Gigabyte board, (its the one I'm currently looking at) really can hold up?

 

[Neuromancer]

I really can not help you with the motherboard, I am not a fan of Gigabyte's but there are plenty of people who are very happy with theirs. I also never was willing to spend 150 dollars on a decent gigabyte, I tried out the sub hundred dollar range.

As to the CPU question.. batches are usually pretty good, but there are microscpoic imperfections in any wafer so no one can say that 100% of week 27 (for example) chips wil OC to 3800MHz etc. There is a tendency for those chips to clock well etc but thats all anyone can claim. Microscopic imperfections in the wafer might not be a problem at stock volts and amps, but as people start overclocking ...
Perhaps a CE can jump in here and give you a real reason why

 

[kayson]

I really can not help you with the motherboard, I am not a fan of Gigabyte's but there are plenty of people who are very happy with theirs. I also never was willing to spend 150 dollars on a decent gigabyte, I tried out the sub hundred dollar range.

As to the CPU question.. batches are usually pretty good, but there are microscpoic imperfections in any wafer so no one can say that 100% of week 27 (for example) chips wil OC to 3800MHz etc. There is a tendency for those chips to clock well etc but thats all anyone can claim. Microscopic imperfections in the wafer might not be a problem at stock volts and amps, but as people start overclocking ...
Perhaps a CE can jump in here and give you a real reason why

I'm no expert, but Neur0 has it right:
Different batches perform differently because of variations caused in the manufacturing process. Intel will design their processors to a certain temperature and frequency spec. They guarantee their product to work at certain ranges. These ranges are used because silicon manufacturing processes don't create 100% identical copies every time. Their fabs have a certain accuracy range for things like n-doping and p-doping (used to make the transistors). So the doping is guaranteed to be between two values, but you don't know exactly where. The chips at the far ends of the range tend to start failing at higher temperatures and frequencies because they're not designed to be operating at those points.

One cause of problems that I know of is that higher clock speeds cause larger voltage transients and eventually they will pass a module's tolerance.

 

[Big Mike]

You might also look at the IP35-E from Abit, it's a little light on features but if it has the things you need its a great board, I have the IP35 PRO and frankly the uGuru "feature" sucks, makes most overclocking programs not work because it doesn't use standard SMBus stuff that you can interface with normal programs, the E doesn't have that issue and generally performs about as well, I've seen them go for as little as 70 bucks on sale.