Newb WC System / Budget -- Critique!

[johan851]

Your right, but I do know he can get a BIPII for 53$ and a ddc for 72$. compared to a HC for 69$ and a mag for 47$. The BIP and ddc system wins hands down.

10$ more will make a phenominal difference in both performance as well as noise, astetics and ease of use.

Really I have a hard time trying to swallow recommending the mags to most users.

I really don't agree with your recommendation. The dual heatercore should have more surface area and dissipate more heat than the BIP. Winning hands down? I don't think so. A very small difference at best, and I would think it would favor the double heatercore, not the BIP. I'll cede aesthetics.

 

[Acurax]

I have a hard time seeing a BIPII outperforming a '77 Bonnie, but I'm open to being wrong about that...

I checked out Autozone.com, the 2-199 (DD core model) is GDI 398219, and is priced at $18.69 in my area. The 2-342 is GDI 399090 and is ~$34.

EDIT: Try putting in an area code for somewhere its a cheaper price? Not sure if they will cross-check w/ shipping info.

 

[goodolarchie]

I have a hard time seeing a BIPII outperforming a '77 Bonnie, but I'm open to being wrong about that...

I checked out Autozone.com, the 2-199 (DD core model) is GDI 398219, and is priced at $18.69 in my area. The 2-342 is GDI 399090 and is ~$34.

EDIT: Try putting in an area code for somewhere its a cheaper price? Not sure if they will cross-check w/ shipping info.

Thanks, I called Autozone back telling them "other stores in US have it cheaper." He asked for an area code or phone number. I also told him it was on the web too but of course that one's $32 too. Can you give me the exact phone number for that location?

 

[Acurax]

ygpm.

 

[ls7corvete]

STF, plenty of threads showing that the BIPII is the winner for the weak fans that we are using. If he used the sunons at full voltage then the BIXII would be ideal. HCs are meant to be used with blowers.

BTW the csp mag is also available, that could save you some money as well.

 

[johan851]

STF, plenty of threads showing that the BIPII is the winner for the weak fans that we are using.

Where?

BTW the csp mag is also available, that could save you some money as well.

I wouldn't get the CSP...a lot of people have had problems with it. Between a D5 and a Mag, you're playing the price/performance game. The Mag 3 or D5 vs the CSP is no contest...the CSP has less pressure, poor reliability, and costs $50.

 

[ls7corvete]

Where.. they are there look for threads by those who have the knowledge and ability to test and explain the difference between the various rads/HCs. Bill is king in this catagory.

the csp mag: this is a new pump and not to be confused with the old one. According to procooling cathar will have one soon and will undoubtedly be posting his results about it when he recieves it.

 

[goodolarchie]

guys, guys, stop with the
I'm going with a hydor L30 pump offered to me at a good price. I picked up my '77 Bonny HC today (w/ AC)... I need a new torchhead for my propane and then I'll have the new fittings installed for it. Also getting a chieftec matrix case + clearflex hose soon. Then will come the swift 6002.
Anyway my intention with this thread was not to start an argument about theoretical watercooling. I appreciate everyone's help here, a great and knowledgeable fellows you all are. However, I'm going to use what I've got (above), and I think it will be a nice setup. Case aside, this WC project will roll in at under $100! Mostly because I found my fiberglass stuff to make the shroud and I saved a lot by buying ppl's stuff. I'll post pics of the progress as it comes in the next couple weeks!

 

[Acurax]

Very good, lookin forward to seein some pics.

 

[johan851]

The Hydor L30 will work just fine. Sounds like you got a great setup, and I'm glad you were able to pull it off for under $100. That's pretty sweet.

 

[goodolarchie]

I have one question now, and feel free to argue away. Eheim 1048 vs Hydor L30. Looking here it seems like it's an issue of quiet/efficient vs flow/head. To put it simply, I can get them at the same price, I know the Eheim is probably a better value, but since cooling is the main issue, which will cool better? And will the Eheim be that much more quiet? Anyone have dB ratings for pumps?

 

[goodolarchie]

Something else popped into my little noggin tonight when I was planning my next few weeks while I wait for the rest of my WC components to roll in. I'm working on getting a good picture host (DSL doesn't host pics) so I can add some visuals here.

Since I'm making the 2x120mm fan shroud out of fiberglass using 2 CD's, some plant foam mold, I had a neat little thought. Both the issue of painting my core and sealing it have been on my mind for the past few days. Looking at my core w/ its endtanks I have (what I think is) a good idea about killing these 3 birds with one.. design. Call it a fiberglass "Sleeve" more than a shroud. It is basically a full fiberglass cover that the HC will "slip into," the HC being molded around it. For those of you who, like me, have some experience working with fiberglass know that making negative molds is tricky. But, looking twice at my HC it really isn't. Normally, the in/out fittings on the endtank (top mount) would get in the way of a good mold, but since I'm yanking them tomorrow once I get a good torch they'll be out until I solder in the new 1/2" barbed fittings. Perfect time to make the mold. Now it won't be air-tight, obviously, as 'glass is way too forgiving, and the cloth I have is pretty rigid in weave (but a good balance in compressive/tensile strength).
Long story short, I'll make the mold with the glass cloth hugging 270* around the core, leaving at least a 1" lip on the intake that will be trimmed down (this will secure the sleeve to the core. The exhaust side will be comletely shrouded on all four sides including the endtanks/fittings which will have 2 rubber grommets installed to keep that air-tight. The shroud will then be trimmed, cleaned up, and will have a nice bead of sealant (silicone) at several key areas to make sure are does not pass around the core, but through it. If one layer is not rigid enough for air-enclosure, I'll throw another on. Black zipties across the front are a last option.
For those of you whose imaginations fall short, pics will be up upon completion(this will be a 2-3 hour venture tomorrow), but just imagine a HC with a full fiberglass blanket, sans intake fins.

 

[johan851]

That sounds like a pretty good idea. I'll be waiting for those pics...

The Eheim has 4' 11" of head, and the specs are for 10w. The Hydor has about 6.5' of head and consumes 23w. This might help:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles672/

That's sort of a tough choice. Any Eheim owner will tell you that they're awesome pumps, very quiet, and incredibly reliable. The article I linked you to describes a noticable sound/rattle from the Hydor L30, so that may be an issue. I'm not sure how reliable the Hydors are either.

In terms of pure performance, you'll probably get better numbers from the L30, but not by a ton...and the Eheim is just overall a better quality pump. Is there any way you could get the 1250 for cheap?

 

[gungeek]

I've used a 1250 in the past and it was sold for a reason. They are huge for putting inside a case and their specs aren't that great anymore, not for the size anyway. If you had to set up a system and not come back to it for 10-20 years, then the 1250 might be a good choice. A 1048 is the largest I'd think about in the Eheim line, but you give up some performance. For the quiet fanatics, the Eheim 1046 is a solid gold standard and the 1048 isn't too bad if you insist on having some performance (European viewpoint).

FWIW I've never had a problem with ticking or any other strange sound from my L30. I do have a quiet one 1200 pump that was replaced then the replacement retired for that problem.

 

[ls7corvete]

For the record, I have a bonny an ehiem and a 6002. Definetly go with the ehiem.

 

[chunkeymunkey25]

I had to choose the 1048 or L20 (able to get at the same price), and chose the 1048 for its quietness. I do have it running submerged in a reservoir withrubber bands around it, but the thing is dea silent unless your stick something loosely to the reservoir to make it slightly rattle. If youre aiming to get it inside your case, you might have to be creative if you dont have a big case. For comparison purposes, with the front cover thing removed its about as long as a 92mm fan, as tall as an 80mm, and as wide as a 70mm.

I really dont like the barbs that come with it, they are way too short with just a single edge that is placed around the middle of the barb shaft. Basically, with my thick & heavy Home Depot 1/2"id-3/4"od vinyl tubing, it was leaking even with hose clamps as tight as they would go. It was an easy fix though, just get a 1/4"NPTx1/2" threaded barb, and itll fit in nice and tight.

If you really want a 12v pump for your budget, others are starting to get their new Mags, and Cathar said hed do a comparison review of the Mag, DDC, & D5 today .

Finally, sorry to break your bubble, but your total project could very easily go above $100. I'm not saying that because Im jealous (my system will be finished today or tomorrow, for around $80), I'm just saying that protecting your hardware by buying enough hose clamps, and actually using a T-line (or your own reservoir), and getting better quality tubing than Home Depot vinyl sutff, will save you a ton of headaches and stress once you get everything up and running. Yes, I'm saying all of those things from experience.

 

[Bugsmasher]

Danger Den D5 - $70.95 + shipping


The MCP600 is also a nice pump from my experience so far which is right at 1 years worth. The original MCP600 (version 1?) did indeed have some problems which is one of the reason Swiftech decided to drop them for the Laing (D4) pumps. Since that original version the problems with the impeller shaft have supposedly been fixed. This pump normally runs a wee bit more (ballpark $79) than the D5. I can personally say this pump is quiet although by no means silent.

My original W/Cing pump was a Hydor L35 which was a pretty decent pump with specs along the lines of the Eheim 1250 and the Mag 3 (along the lines, not exact). When I changed to a pump (the MCW600/AquaXtreme 50z) which has higher head rating I did see fairly significant temperature drops in my system.

Between the above pumps I would probably go with the D5 at this point due to pricing and the people who have posted about them after actually using them seem very pleased so far. I think the MCP600 may have a slight edge in overall performance due to the heat dumped into the loop but its minimal at best according to the numbers I have seen. I havent personally owned a D4 or D5 but have heard they are true tanks in terms of durability.

 

[lowfat]

I'd personally avoid the L30. My last pump was an L30, it lasted about 8 months, and had a horrible grinding noise. Eventually the shaft inside the pump broke into 4 different pieces. I am now using a MCP655/D5 and absolutely love it. Well worth the price.

 

[goodolarchie]

Finally, sorry to break your bubble, but your total project could very easily go above $100. I'm not saying that because Im jealous (my system will be finished today or tomorrow, for around $80), I'm just saying that protecting your hardware by buying enough hose clamps, and actually using a T-line (or your own reservoir), and getting better quality tubing than Home Depot vinyl sutff, will save you a ton of headaches and stress once you get everything up and running. Yes, I'm saying all of those things from experience.

No bubble broken
I plan on using clearflex-60, or tygon, and still staying under that mark. I already have a bunch of tube clamps. I used to do a lot of automotive applications for turbocharging, intercooling and whatnot so I have a lot of spare junk left over. Including a used oil cooler that is eerily close in dimensions to that '77 bonny HC I picked up. Hmm.. I think the fact that its had oil run through it as well as a bunch of road-grime on the fins negates its possible use.
Anyway, My WC stuff will still roll in right around or under $100. I also found:
this chieftec case
which I think is pretty much my best bet for my project. $75 shipped. Not bad IMO!
I'm waiting to hear back from several ppl I'm buying stuff from before I head out to resupply and send some MO's. Once I finally have a torch again I can get back to work.

 

[goodolarchie]

For the record, I have a bonny an ehiem and a 6002. Definetly go with the ehiem.

So what's your pc ware and what kinda temps you get? Being as your setup is closest to my intended one..