Newb WC System / Budget -- Critique!

[Bugsmasher]

One quick suggestion that I think Cathar originally made....

Try out the 7/16" ID 5/8" OD Masterkleer tubing from www.mcmaster.com

It fits snugly over 1/2" OD fittings (its a little work but nice fit), has a really nice bend radius without kinking, due to its flexibility its easier to work with inside a case than the 1/2" ID 3/4" OD tubing I have tried and it runs right about $13 delivered in the US. Thats 25 feet of tubing which allows you more than enough tubing for multiple systems. At $0.37 a foot its pretty much a steal by comparision to the Clearflex or the higher end tubing available.

 

[johan851]

/\ Funny...that's exactly what I just recommended in a PM.

 

[ls7corvete]

So what's your pc ware and what kinda temps you get? Being as your setup is closest to my intended one..

I run at about 38c now with the case open. That is with just one very quiet fan on the HC without a shroud. I have a blower I need to rig up a shroud for though.....

I have the ehiem compact so you should be better off in the pump department than me.

btw I am running a winny at 1.56v@ 285*9 and a x800xl stock speeds but water cooled.

Dont worry about temps though, you cant really compare systems.

 

[goodolarchie]

w00t! I just finished laying the glass and despite a few wrinkles (I have glass filler for those), it should be pretty nice once sanded/painted. It was odd when removing the stock fittings... the first one took about 10 minutes to heat up enough to melt the solder, the second one (core fully cooled) took less than one. Hmm. Well anyway, I'll post some pics on wednesday. Anyone have a good free file/image server they could recommend?

 

[goodolarchie]

So all of my components are in the works!
That is:
$25 Swiftech 6002CPU block
$25 w/ mods Bonny 2-302 (10.5"L version) HC
$20-30 2 Sunon or Delta 120mm fans,
$25 Eheim 1048 block, DD Res (free w/ pump),
$10-25 ??? tubing,
$85 Chieftec Aluminum Matrix Case + Rheobus
__________
Total: $190-215? (mental math)

Wow, big time underbudget for once. And that original budget did NOT include a case! Sans case I easily come in 1/2 my original budget. Anyway, I want to hear ppl's opinions on the ups and downs of
1. Tygon
2. Clearflex-60
3. Masterkleer
(listed in cost descending)
I know different ppl choose tubing for different reasons. I also understand tygon is a top quality product but keep in mind I'm on a budget I know one nice fellow here believes that the masterkleer is better than clearflex. Given that is true I'll definitely order some. How many feet is enough? I want to use MINIMAL tubing and plan on designing my case specifically for that purpose. I.e. maximum efficiency with as little bends and elbows. I figured 6' would be enough. That case is a large mid-tower/entry lvl server. Starting with the resevoir, I plan on routing:
Res > Pump > Rad > CPU > GPU > " "
does that sound right? I understnad mcmaster is the place to shop given my decision. Still working on the pics!

 

[johan851]

McMaster is the place to stop. With such cheap tubing, I would get about 10ft just to be on the safe side. That gives you some tubing to mess up with, or slack if you want to change something later. I already gave you my opinion on Clearflex/MasterKleer. MasterKleer is a little less flexible, but if you go with the 7/16", it's more flexible than the Clearflex due to thinner walls.

This will help, if you haven't already seen it...
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=375205

 

[goodolarchie]

Thanks for the link that was a good read. I wish I had the two (master and CF60) in front of me because I could choose in less than 5 seconds. I really do want something that is flexible and kink resistant. Since I may be side-mounting the HC, I may have some tight bends to work with. I'll have to wait until my case arrives to know for sure. I see McM doesn't sell the CF60, does anyone know where this can be had for its cheapest? I've seen it $1.00/ft + ~$5 shipping And also, how much does McM usually charge in shipping for several feet?

 

[ls7corvete]

You might want to add the tubbing on to one of your other orders simply to save on shipping.

mcmaster carr wont give you a shipping estimate.

 

[johan851]

I see McM doesn't sell the CF60

Oh, but they do. Page 85, top section, "chemical PVC tubing" is Clearflex60. Get the thickest walled, 1/2" ID...should be like $.65 a foot.

If you REALLY need two samples in your hand to test...I suppose you could shoot me a PM.

 

[goodolarchie]

Oh, but they do. Page 85, top section, "chemical PVC tubing" is Clearflex60. Get the thickest walled, 1/2" ID...should be like $.65 a foot.

If you REALLY need two samples in your hand to test...I suppose you could shoot me a PM.

Hmm.. if the chem pvc on P. 85 really is CF60, here are the prices I got:

3/8" 1/2" 1/16" 2" 22 25,50,100 5231K185 .23

3/8" 9/16" 3/32" 2 1/4" 32 25,50,100 5231K196 .36

3/8" 5/8" 1/8" 2 1/2" 40 25,50,100 5231K217 .51

1/2" 5/8" 1/16" 2 1/2" 20 25,50,100 5231K227 .35

1/2" 3/4" 1/8" 3" 30 10,25,50,100 5231K237 .68

Wow that is some pretty cheap stuff too. I'm trying to imagine how this 1/8" wall stuff will bend. 3/4" OD is pretty big, when trying to imagine it snaking all around my case. Now I don't know how water pressure and hydrodynamics compare with flow properties like hot exhaust gas, which I know something about. In exhaust design you wouldn't want to use 2.5" pipes on a 4-banger. Now I have a lesser flowing pump (1048), wouldn't the same principle be true for tubing? I could understand if I had one of those nice 300gph+ pumps, but mines significantly less, and I could see 3/8" tubing warranted. Then again, I believe the pump is fit stock w/ 1/2" OD barbs (short ones), which might attest to a counterpoint. I like the idea of a lesser volumous system with higher flow... but what do I know. I'll put in an order w/ them today, as well as a couple of nice fans from... somewhere. Those sunons on my first post are my current plan.

 

[goodolarchie]

Just for theoretical sake, I wanted to crunch some numbers entertaining this total volue idea. I'm going to use metric... because imperial units
Assume:
5' (152.4cm) length of used is used.
3/8" (.9525cm) ID tubing: (pi)*(.9525cm/2)^2*152.4 =~109cm^3 (mL) +-5
1/2" (1.27cm) ID tubing: (pi)*(1.27/2)^2*154.2 =~195.4cm^3 (mL) +-5

I would figure at least 200-300mL to come from rad core + WB +pump, going to have to measure my resevoir and HC. I suppose 85mL is pretty minute difference. Like I said, I don't know enough about hydrodynamics to contemplate flow/thermal properties at different rates. I'm sure somebody has already done that so I'll go hunt around.

 

[Bugsmasher]

A wee bit more input....

To date I have tried 1/2 ID-3/4 OD tubing by Tygon and Clearflex as well as the 7/16 ID-5/8 OD tubing by Masterkleer.

The Tygon was more workable for bending in tighter spaces than the Clearflex for the larger OD tubes but the 5/8 OD Masterkleer was the clear winner for tighter bends.

A couple of things to keep in mind. First while your tubing may be 1/2 ID your fittings that the tubing is going over will be less than 1/2 ID. Your 'chokepoints' will not be in the tubing diameter as far as I can tell as long as you stay over 3/8 ID tubing, it will be the fittings themselves (barbs, elbows, T lines, etc).

I havent had any problems with kinking yet in the two systems I am currently watercooling but if it ever became an issue then I would simply use Coolsleeves to clear it up. They are fairly inexpensive and very easy to use. Currently they are available for 5/8 and 3/4 OD tubing.

Lastly....

I would consider the balance between the tubing wall thickness vs bending radius required and let that dictate what you end up getting for tubing. Tubing with a wall thickness of 1/16 I have heard has problems with kinks. I can say that both the 3/32 and 1/8 wall thickness tubing types I have used have held up well with no problems. Of course this depends on the pathing of the tubes in your system so it may vary. I would definitely stick with a minimum of 3/32 wall thickness however.

 

[johan851]

/\ Good advice on wall thickness. Also, the larger ID your tubing gets, the thicker walls it needs to maintain the same bend radius. The 7/16" ID with 3/32" walls and the 1/2" ID with 1/4" walls bend about the same. My 3/4" ID with 1/4" walls won't bend nearly as well.

In regard to the 3/8" ID fittings being the biggest point of restriction, that's true. At the same time, even though the tubing is larger, it still provides a source of restriction. Larger tubing will cause higher flow, but there's definitely a point of diminishing returns. 3/8" ID tubing will cause slightly lower flow than 7/16", and going to 1/2" ID won't give you huge benefits either. 7/16" is just a nice balance between the more restrictive 3/8" ID and the unecessarily unrestrictive 1/2" ID.

 

[goodolarchie]

/\ Good advice on wall thickness. Also, the larger ID your tubing gets, the thicker walls it needs to maintain the same bend radius. The 7/16" ID with 3/32" walls and the 1/2" ID with 1/4" walls bend about the same. My 3/4" ID with 1/4" walls won't bend nearly as well.

In regard to the 3/8" ID fittings being the biggest point of restriction, that's true. At the same time, even though the tubing is larger, it still provides a source of restriction. Larger tubing will cause higher flow, but there's definitely a point of diminishing returns. 3/8" ID tubing will cause slightly lower flow than 7/16", and going to 1/2" ID won't give you huge benefits either. 7/16" is just a nice balance between the more restrictive 3/8" ID and the unecessarily unrestrictive 1/2" ID.

Well 7/16" would have been a great happy medium but McM didn't offer one. So I ended up placing an order for 10' of 1/2." Also ordered 3 of those sunon fans (45cfm at 20db on 5v FTW!). So that wraps up my component collection!... I hope

2nd layer of Fglass shroud is taking forever to dry. I ran out of hardener when mixing it... so now I pay the price

 

[johan851]

Well 7/16" would have been a great happy medium but McM didn't offer one. So I ended up placing an order for 10' of 1/2." Also ordered 3 of those sunon fans (45cfm at 20db on 5v FTW!). So that wraps up my component collection!... I hope

They're on page 82 or so, under the MasterKleer chemical tubing. Something like $.38/ft. If you really wanted some, you can probably still cancel the order on McM's site.

 

[goodolarchie]

 

[goodolarchie]

just snagged a Maze 4 To try out as well for $15. It has hardware for socket A which is perfect for my 2600+ Barton-M guinea pig

 

[goodolarchie]

Shroud filled w/ Forumula 27. Next few days will be drying, drilling, sanding, priming, painting, and installing

 

[ls7corvete]

Looks good. The maze4 is a nice block you may just end up keeping it.

 

[goodolarchie]

I'm on a roll now. I'm meeting a fellow locally to buy a BIX Chrome Radiator, as well as a DD 3.5"x2 Resevoir. I figure I'll try the bonny w/ the other res, and the BIX with the 3.5" res (since it would fit) in push/pull and see which configuration I like more, sell the other! w00t