Observations about buying ram

[mackerel]

I keep saying to myself I should get some high speed ram for benching, and in particular, get some in ready for Zen 2. I look at 4000 rated kits, and 2x8GB HyperX RGB is from around £170 or so, which is about the best I've seen it. Then I see Gigabyte 2x8GB 2666 for £60 on sale, or about 1/3 the cost. Well, Zen 2 can still have my existing B-die kit and I will have to do it manually.

High end benching aside, is there a sweet spot? I just ordered a kit of 2x8GB Ripjaws V 3200 for £77. I hope it is the same kit I have in my original Skylake build, as it is dual rank which really helps the performance in compute. Timings and description as a 2015 kit fits exactly. Can't get it easily any other way. Kits with 4GB modules are much worse per GB.

As a further thought, has anyone tried the Ryzen timing calculator? It's on my to do list of things to try some time... just wondering if it delivers.

 

[Woomack]

HyperX 3600+ is probably the best option looking at performance/price right now. All 3600+ Predator kits use the same Samsung B IC.
I have no idea what is in new Ripjaws V as G.Skill was changing IC in some series to Hynix. Even most Trident Z that are not on tight timings are all on Hynix.

I'm not a fan of ryzen timing calculator because of the way it was developed, and in real there are mixed results. It may help as long as you know what are you doing. Many users see it as a great tool, but most of those people have no idea about memory OC. Sometimes I get pms from various users who are trying to use it but don't even know the basics of overclocking.
For me, it was totally useless for everything, but Samsung B and Samsung B is so popular that it is not a mystery how to set it. That calculator was actually designed using Samsung IC and didn't work with Hynix or Micron at the beginning. I have no idea what about last versions as I'm not using it and I don't really need it.
As long as the motherboard has good BIOS, then Ryzen memory OC is not hard. However, most overclocking series motherboards will set timings right when you provide main timings. Some others will have OC profiles for popular IC.
I see it more like if someone has totally no idea what is doing, then calculator won't help. If there are some settings missing then can use it, but really, Ryzen performance is related mostly to memory frequency, not additional timings. Out of competitive benching, it's a total waste of time to tweak timings on ryzen.

 

[mackerel]

This is my existing Ripjaws 5 kit. It isn't a tight kit by any means, but the dual rank makes a big difference in my uses. I'm kinda hoping the one I ordered is the same as no part meaningful number was on the listing. Even if not, it's not bad price for a 3200 kit anyway.

When TridentZ 3200 came out, I noticed there were two kits differing only one letter in part number. In the UK, only the slack timing version was ever available. I think one was 16-16-16... the other 16-18-18...

On Ryzen, from memory when I played with B-die on my 2600 I couldn't get ram to work above 3400. Is that typical or did I just suck? Wasn't an OC mobo by any means.

Edit: DOH! I just noticed my kit is 16-16-16... I thought it was 16-18-18 which is what the new kit is. So it will be different then...

 

[Woomack]

Most new kits are single rank in 8GB modules and dual rank in 16GB. Older IC is not available anymore. You can still find a kit which was in the warehouse for some longer.
TridentZ 3000/3200 CL16 were all on Hynix. The same CL16-16-16 and 16-18-18 (both reviewed in the past). Ripjaws V and Ripjaws 4 were on Hynix and Samsung D/E except Ripjaws V 3000/3200+ CL14 and 3600 CL16 in 8GB modules.
New Micron E runs great but these are higher capacity modules so dual rank is in 16GB. Still can get them cheap per GB. It's not guaranteed what you get but there are new Ballistix Sport LT 3200 CL16-18-18 based on this IC and also HyperX Fury 3466. Ballistix Sport LT 3600 are also listed on mobo manufacturer websites and supposed to be on Micron but I'm not sure.

OC on Ryzen a lot depends on the motherboard and AGESA. As I mentioned in the other thread, some B350/X370 motherboards were overclocking better than B450/X470. ASRock B450 which you have listed is actually that case. When I was testing these motherboards then there was a problem with AGESA which was actually AMD fault. My motherboards could run up to 3466 stable so about what you can make on yours. For comparison, ASRock B350/X370 ITX could run at 3600-3733 stable and up to 3866 for benchmarks. The same with Taichi series and some others. Also MSI and ASUS motherboards were acting like that.

 

[mackerel]

Interesting... so I might have more luck going back to my X370 system? One for another day...

Still, don't think I'll do anything until Zen 2. Just over 2 weeks to go... I got an "invite" to the live webcast (registration required) but it's like 3am in UK so I'll pass. I'm hyped, but not that hyped.

 

[Woomack]

I don't know if it's worth the time to switch back to X370 when performance gain will be really low. Maybe it's better to sell it as I guess you will get at least one new cpu+mobo, if not more. I sold my 9900K to save some money and it was a pain with 100°C under load at stock clocks and with already good coolers. I guess that price will go down once new chips arrive.

I have no idea when new chips will be in stores. I expect some motherboard samples but I will still need a CPU. My sources have no clear info about availability. I got some invitations to Computex events but just can't afford to fly to Taiwan.

 

[mackerel]

I'm keeping the X370 + 1700 system as representative of 1st gen Ryzen for testing. I gave away my 1600 based system since I wasn't using it for anything and unlikely to. The B450 + 2600 is my representative for 2nd gen, and I'll buy new mobo + Zen 2 CPU when I can. I really should start getting rid of some older Intel stuff but not sure many will be interested now. Couple Z170 boards and i3-6100 not gonna be worth much. Only need one of each CPU generation for test, and I'm running out of room.

As for when Zen 2 will be here, hoping it wont be too long after the reveal, July at latest. I might even get two, one single chiplet, one dual chiplet model to test and see how they respond. Depending on pricing and motivation at the time of course.

 

[Woomack]

No problem to sell. Problem is to get a good price. In Poland all count that I drop the price 50% below the new item price. It's just ridiculous and I keep some items because of that.

I just want 16 core and I don't need more than 1 rig. I just hope I get a good chip as most of my CPUs are overclocking below average. The only good was probably 5820K.
I also count that many people will try to sell their X299 chips and then I will get 6 cores for ITX board. I just see how X99 CPUs went down after Ryzen premiere and how hard is to sell X299 right now. That X299 ITX board is one of the things not worth to sell. It's really good but I wish to use it in a small case where 8+ cores are simply too hot and it doesn't support KL-X.

 

[mackerel]

I note one UK store with 7800X (6 core) and they're selling them way below 8700k/8086k pricing. I would be tempted myself but the x299 mobo cost is too much. Unfortunately the 8 core+ ones are still holding value. I'd love to attempt another Y-cruncher hwbot record for a given core count where I still held for 6 cores last time I looked. X299 is the only competitive platform for that, at least I don't have the budget to play with the higher end Xeons in the same range.

With older kit, I'm not so much looking for a good price as just get rid of the things to free up space and accessories. Shift mobo+CPU combos, maybe some ram. I gave away the Ryzen 1600 system to someone I know to make it easier.

Is it me or have mobo pricing gone up? I'm pretty sure when I got Z170 they were around £100 for a mid range board, entry level a bit below that. Nowadays it looks like Z chipsets go around £150 ball park for a mid range and even budget ones are hard to get towards £100. Not paid attention to see if same applies on AMD side.

 

[Woomack]

Prices went up when Z270 was released, next after Z370 and Z390. It can be related to additional features but I see it's more because popular series were moved up while manufacturers put some new, mid-range series between. For example ASUS had "classic/standard" series and next ROG. They put Strix which is somehow ROG but in the same time lower gaming series which lacks some OC options and better design for overclocking. Maximus went up with price. Boards like Maximus Gene used to cost ~£150-200, now they cost ~£200-300. The same with ASRock as they added Phantom Gaming and Steel Legend series and most of these boards are less expensive but also lack of some features. There are exceptions like Z390 PG ITX.

I'm usually giving my good hardware which I got bored with to my brother and I'm selling his stuff. I'm also selling everything else that I don't need to cover new stuff. Like part of memory reviews are covered with other memory kits that I had to sell.

 

[Alaric]

Interesting... so I might have more luck going back to my X370 system? One for another day...

Still, don't think I'll do anything until Zen 2. Just over 2 weeks to go... I got an "invite" to the live webcast (registration required) but it's like 3am in UK so I'll pass. I'm hyped, but not that hyped.

Computex keynote speech is Monday 5/20. (5 PM your time, I think). I'll be watching Dr. Su.

 

[EarthDog]

Computex keynote speech is Monday 5/28. (3 AM your time, I think). I'll be watching Dr. Su.

Fixed.

That would be 10PM ET I believe.
https://computex-forum.azurewebsites.net/Forum/PressConference

I'll be watching too.

 

[Alaric]

My email says 10 AM CST. Greenwich Mean Time +8. 10 AM CST is EST +1, London is 5 hours ahead of EST. That would actually be 4 PM. I have family in London, so the time difference is a known quantity for me. Math not so much.



Should be a good speech. It's been a long time since the head of AMD spoke from a position of strength.

 

[wingman99]

I read a rumor that Ryzen 2 will support up to DDR4 5000 speed memory.

 

[Woomack]

I read a rumor that Ryzen 2 will support up to DDR4 5000 speed memory.

This is just a rumour based on what one guy saw in some early specs/tables and is far for any official info. It was already mentioned a couple of times and it doesn't mean it will work at 5000 but will have available memory ratios that let it run up to 5000. The same as current Ryzen has ratios for up to 4000 but barely 2-3 motherboards can boot at this clock. Documents which leaked from Biostar (or put there on purpose as it was on their official website) say that X570 motherboard supports DDR4-4000 but there is no word about higher clocks.
On the other hand, OC series Intel motherboards can set DDR4-8000+, there is no setup which on typical components runs stable and at reasonable voltages at more than DDR4-4500. 4600-4700 is on higher binned components, 4800-4900 is on cherry-picked everything, 5000+ is only for CPU-Z valid on really high voltages.

 

[mackerel]

My email says 10 AM CST. Greenwich Mean Time +8. 10 AM CST is EST +1, London is 5 hours ahead of EST. That would actually be 4 PM. I have family in London, so the time difference is a known quantity for me. Math not so much.

I got the same e-mail. GMT+8 is expected for Taiwan. The local time in UK is 7 hours earlier due to daylight saving. That makes 10am Taiwan = 3am UK.

CST is GMT -6. 10am CST = midnight in Taiwan. That seems unlikely...

Either someone screwed up the e-mail, or CST means something different in Taiwan.

 

[Alaric]

From AMD.com Turns out CST is China Standard Time (GMT +8) LOL. So, 7 PM AZ time on the Sunday before. Should be 8 AM your time on the 27th?

 

[mackerel]

Should be 8 AM your time on the 27th?

If that is aimed at me, nope. It's more than 2 hours time difference to here. See earlier reply for my workings.

 

[EarthDog]

I got the same e-mail. GMT+8 is expected for Taiwan. The local time in UK is 7 hours earlier due to daylight saving. That makes 10am Taiwan = 3am UK.

Yep! I just used 10A Taiwan time (ignoring CST, etc) and worked backwards.

Taiwan is 12 hours ahead of us(me in US/Ohio). So if it starts at 10a there Monday, it's 10p here sunday. UK is 5 hours ahead of me, so 3a.

Taiwan is on CST.

 

[mackerel]

As much as I'd love to watch it live, I'll just have to catch up on the news in the morning, which isn't going to be easy as I have a conference call at work first thing. It's annoying enough normally, but would be more so on that day.