Opteron woes

[Wayward_Son]

So about three weeks ago I upgraded from a 3700+ Sandy which happily lived day to day at 2.95ghz under a Zalmann CNPS-7700 CU, with load temps in a 75F room coming in at 52-52C.

My new processor is an Opty 170. Knowing that the dual core would produce more heat, I ordered a Big Typhoon. When the parts arrived, I lapped both the Typhoon and the Opty's IHS. My temps were abominable. I tried reseating the BT a few times with varying amounts of AS5 but nothing fixed the heat problem. I decided that maybe I'd messed up my lapping of the BT. I refinished it, reinstalled it, and temps were still outrageous even at stock speeds (even undervolted! Load temps at stock speeds with 1.35v were in the fifties on a lapped BT running at full speed!)

So I decided my small case didn't have the heat-dispersion abilities to cope with the Opty. So I ordered my new Lian Li and a Zalmann 9700 NT. Upon receiving the case, I flipped around the PCI fan to act as an intake. I also flipped around the rear intake 80mm to act as an exhaust for the rear-blowing 9700. The Zalmann came with a beautiful mirror polish so I didn't bother lapping it--I assumed it was flat. I installed everything into the new case with good cable management, only this time I used the Zalmann ZM-STG1 grease. Finally, my temps were lower--a little bit. I could now overclock. With the 9700 running at full speed (2800 RPM), I clocked my 170 up to 2.75ghz @ 1.35v. Things run smoothely. Only problem is temperature. With all the case fans at full, in a 75F room, the CPU idles at 37-38C and the hotter core loads at 58-60C (the other core loads at about 54-56C). This is still much too hot.

So last night I removed the CPU and begin re-lapping it. Again, I assumed the Zalmann's mirror finish was good, so I didn't touch it. I reinstalled everything, this time with AS5. No good. Worse, in fact. Now I'm loading at 60-63 on the hot core. I haven't bothered letting the AS5 set up--this is ridiculous and it will still be running too hot after the paste cures.

So today I remove the 9700 and begin lapping it. As it turns out, the damn thing is terribly concave. Hmm, maybe this has something to do with it? But I'm getting bored spending the whole weekend lapping processors and heatsinks, and I want to use my computer in the meantime. So:

A few hours ago, I reinstalled my 170 (which by now I am SURE has a nice, flat finish after two lapping jobs and finising with 1500 grit, although no mirror finish). I then installed the STOCK four-heatpipe heatsink that came with the Opteron. And when I say STOCK, I mean I haven't lapped it, and I'm using the thermal compound that came with the sink. I then erased my entire overclock and went back to stock.

So now I'm running:

1. Opteron 170, lapped flat
2. Stock Opteron heatsink w/ stock thermal pad
3. Stock speeds, stock volts, no overclocking

And my temps?

40-42C at idle (in a 75F room).

If I run SETI, temps shoot up to 65-70C within about two minutes.

At this point I'm thinking that even after lapping my 9700 I'm still going to be running way too hot. Do I have a bad processor? What is the deal here? The stock heatsink isn't doing its job even at stock speeds with a lapped IHS! And at this point I can't return the processor because I've already lapped it (not to mention overclocked it and used two different aftermarket heatsinks).

What do I need to do at this point? Is it safe to assume that my IHS isn't making proper contact with the CPU dies? Do I need to pop my IHS? I'm not prepared to go to water cooling--this was supposed to be a cheap upgrade to dual-core for a 939 board, and I've already spent over $100 on two different heatsinks, not to mention upwards of about 12 hours carefully lapping and polishing various components.

Where do I go from here?

 

[CGR]

Well if those temps are accurate it sounds like something isnt installed properly. The 9700 should keep your chip cool without issue at those settings.

Where are you reading these temps?

I have an opty 170 with an AC Freezer 64 pro, which I consider to be inferior to the Zalman 9700. My temps are around 34c idle and 45 - 50c load depending on how hot it is in the room.

I have never heard of a bad IHS --> Core contact. If you pop the IHS will your zalman install properly?

 

[KillrBuckeye]

What are you using to measure your temps? I use CoreTemp, and my Opty 170 with a Big Typhoon running at the stock fan speed (~1200 RPM?) stays cool enough for my liking. At full load with my near 3 GHz clock, temps get up to around 55C. I haven't lapped anything. You could be right about the IHS making poor contact with the core, but I've never taken one off, so I don't know what's involved with performing that surgery.

 

[CGR]

Usually you just need an exacto knife to cut the adhesive that keeps the IHS on. Gotta be careful while doing it.

 

[Wayward_Son]

I'm using Coretemp 95.

I guess the really telling thing here is that even the stock cooler with the stock thermal pad isn't even close to keeping the heat at bay, and that's with the flattened IHS.

I'm also worried about popping the lid and trying to install the 9700. That thing begins at an angle during installation, and I'm worried about cracking the cores when applying pressure at an angle. I'm also concerned that the 9700 wouldn't even work anyway with the IHS removed because there is no way to take up that 3/16" of slack that the IHS provides. Without the lid, the cooler retention mechanism wouldn't apply enough pressure to keep everything locked down tight.

I'm going to finish (hopefully) lapping the 9700 tonight. It should be installed later this evening with a thin coat of AS5. I should see a decrease in temps immediately which should drop a little further over the next week or so as the compound cures. If temps still haven't dropped far enough, then I guess drastic measures must be taken.

 

[dealmaster]

I'd expect a nice drop in temperatures with the 9700. You do have to put a hell of a lot of pressure on it to get it to snap into place, but it makes great contact because of all that pressure. For what it's worth, I was worried about breaking the motherboard, but the mobo isn't even bent.

For my 5600+, at stock speeds/voltages (2.8GHz and 1.35v) with the stock cooler, it idled at 35C and loaded around 55-58C. Now, with it running at 3.2GHz and 1.5v it idles around 29-31C and loads around 46C. This is a fantastic cooler and I noticed a further 3-4C drop in temps when I added some intake fans in my spare 5.25" bays to suck in cool air and blow it directly into the Zalman, which blows the hot air right out the rear exhaust fan.

 

[Wayward_Son]

So as I'm taking a break from lapping the 9700 I start SETI and take the side panel off my case. Within a few minutes core temps are at 64-67C on the hot core. The stock Opty cooler feels warm/hot to the touch and the air coming off of it is warm. This tells me that I've actually got pretty good contact between the IHS and the heatsink. So what's with the high core temps at stock speeds and voltages?

Is it possible that the thermal sensors in the CPU itself are out of calibration or something?

 

[dealmaster]

So as I'm taking a break from lapping the 9700 I start SETI and take the side panel off my case. Within a few minutes core temps are at 64-67C on the hot core. The stock Opty cooler feels warm/hot to the touch and the air coming off of it is warm. This tells me that I've actually got pretty good contact between the IHS and the heatsink. So what's with the high core temps at stock speeds and voltages?

Is it possible that the thermal sensors in the CPU itself are out of calibration or something?

It depends. What heatsink did you get with it? With my 5600+ they gave me the crappy aluminum block without heatpipes that was almost identical to the same HSF that came with my 3500+ Venice. I couldn't believe it. So if yours is similar to that, all aluminum with no heatpipes that's probably why. Mine also had a crappy 60mm fan. Switching to something that's copper-cored and a big 110mm fan will make a HUGE difference.

Also, how's the airflow in your case? Do you have a hot spot right around the CPU or is it getting fed hot air somehow?

 

[Wayward_Son]

I'd like to reiterate that I'm getting bad temperatures not only with the stock heatsink at stock speeds (which is the four-heatpipe Opty cooler) but also with both a Zalmann 9700 NT and a Thermaltake Big Typhoon.

My case is a Lian Li P60B Plus II.

I have reversed the PCI exhaust fan and turned it into an intake fan. This makes two 120mm intake fans in the lower half of the case. I have reversed the 80mm CPU intake fan to act as an exhaust instead. I have also removed the 80mm blowhole and used a 121mm holesaw to create a 120mm blowhole, and added a 120mm exhaust fan in the top. This means that I have an 80mm rear exhaust and a 120mm blowhole as well as my Corsair 520 120mm PSU.

I really don't believe that case airflow is the issue here. I guess it COULD be, since I've altered Lian Li's airflow path, but I just don't buy it. My dead stock proc and stock HSF have been running in an air-conditioned room for the last three hours, at idle, in a 75F room, and my Coretemp 95 temps are now at 38-40F. If I run SETI right now, temps will be over sixty celsius. On the stock cooler. At stock speeds and voltages. With the side panel off. I think there is something besides case airflow at play here. I just wish I knew what it was.

I've finally gotten down to all copper on my 9700. Another hour or two and I should have a decent finish with 1500 grit. I'll reinstall the Zalmann with AS5 and post more temps then.

 

[CGR]

I think you only have two choices past your final attempt with the 9700.

RMA it and tell them there is a problem with the IHS connection to the core.

Take the IHS off and see if you can apply AS5 between the IHS and core. At least if you pick this option you can see if there is a big gap between the IHS and core or if there is something wrong with the thermal compound they use.
Wont be able to RMA it after doing this though.

 

[Wayward_Son]

I don't think I can RMA the Opteron at this point. They're going to see the lapped IHS and deny the warranty. Can't say I blame them, either.

I guess if I have to pop the lid, I COULD just use the BT I still have. At least then I would have a way of securely attaching it to a delidded proc, whereas the 9700 NT looks like a no-go. BT is quieter, too. Hmmmmm.

 

[CGR]

Pop it see whats going on under there. Maybe apply some AS5 betweent he IHS and cores.. You can always put the IHS back on with a little adhesive.

 

[Wayward_Son]

I've read a few tutorials. It seems fairly basic on the one hand while also seeming extremely arcane on the other.

I'm a mechanic. My entire job revolves around using my hands and tools (and brain... that's the most important tool in my toolbox); everything I do involves dexterity. ANd I use razors all the time. I don't think I'd have a problem popping the lid, but it still seems like a last resort, you know?

 

[Gunlance]

Pop the top. Worked wonders on my 165. I had horrible contact between the core and the IHS.

 

[Wayward_Son]

Before I go chopping up my new Opty, I'd like to bring something else up again:

When I was using the stock four-heatpipe cooler last night, running SETI, the cooler was very warm/hot to the touch, and the air coming off it was very warm. It seemed that my cooler was making decent enough contact with the IHS to be able to pull off heat.

So what's up with that? If cooler can pull heat from the IHS, that it stands to reason that the IHS is pulling heat out of the core. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong? I really don't want to risk delidding if I can avoid it so if there's another answer here then I'm all for it.

As fas as an update: I reinstalled the Zalmann last night with a thin coat of AS5 on the processor. Ran SETI all night, turned if all all day while I was at work, and have it crunching SETI now. Still in an air-conditioned room. Thermostat still set at 75F. NVidia control panel shows ambient temperature to be 31-32C. Core 0 is loading at a high of 50, Core 1 is loading at a high of 57. Core 0 seems to be averaging about 48, Core 1 seems to be averaging about 55. This is better than it was, and it will probably drop a little more in time... but THAT'S STILL TOO DAMN HOT! A stock speed/voltage Opty 170 should not be seeing mid-fifties on a lapped 9700NT with a lapped IHS and AS5. This is ridiculous.

 

[Wayward_Son]

Bump. I know someone out there can answer my question. Am I looking at thermal sensors that are reading too high, or do I need to pop the top? Should I try something other than Coretemp 95?

I'm kind of wanting to go all-in on a de-lidded chip with the Big Typhoon. At which point I'd revert my Lian case to it's designed airflow, which would give the BT a blast of ambient air. But before I go this route, I have to know what's going on with my temps. If my IHS is making poor contact with the dies, then why does the stock cooler feel so hot under load at stock speeds/voltages? It's certainly transferring a good deal of heat, yet my temps are still way too high.

 

[athlonhead]

I removed the IHS on my opty and it made a big difference with load temps.
I had some high ambient temps 27c case 32c and it didnt even hit 50 under load.
My cooler is lapped and I have great case flow.
If your cooler is getting hot then it has good contact with the IHS
I was using core temp and it seemed to read higher than asus probe.
It was causing my computer to shut down so I an using speedfan to monitor temps.

 

[CGR]

Does your bios have a temp sensor? If so what does it say for your idle temps?

 

[Wayward_Son]

BIOS shows 36C with my case fans on low. Coretemp 95 shoes 37-38 in WinXP with AVG, Coretemp and some Logitech stuff for my G5 running in the systray.

 

[MadChild]

well i just got mine today to test this monster out. since i have an amd processor (hurray) didnt need to undo the motherboard to install the 775 clip (hurray). booted up the pc... stock temps were: 33~ idle 42~ load
ok.
amd am2 6000+ 3.01ghz to a 3.51~
temps: about 37 idle and 44-50 load !
using ai booster + asus probe 2 for x64
make sure your fan is clear from all other pieces and that the old thermalpaste was properly removed before puttin the new one on.