Overclocking an FX 4100 on Asus M5A78L

[themrmster]

Hello,

My name is Florin and i wish your help in making my system a bit more powerful for those extra fps in games. Take note that i never overclocked but i read a lot of information lately.

My system:

Motherboard: Asus M5A78L
CPU: AMD FX 4100 - AM3+ / Quad Core 3.6 Ghz / 95W
Cooler: Zalman CNPS10X Optima
PSU: nJoy 500W - Model: 500WGX
RAM: Kingston 4G DDR3 1333Mhz - 10600 CL9 240-PIN DIMM
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GT 440 - 1024MB DDR5 - 128 bits by Gainward

I wish to know if i can get the system stable from 3.6Ghz to 4.0Ghz on this motherboard. I attached 2 snapshots of my CPU-Z.

The thing is, i am afraid to do it without guidance because i haven't seen an overclock done on a BIOS similar to mine and many of the voltage, multiplier, etc have different names, so, there is my dilemma. I uploaded pictures of my BIOS, hopefully, you can tell me what should i change and what should i let default.

One last thing. I performed a 15 minutes Prime95 Blend test and my core voltage was up and down from 1.35 to 1.44 or 1.428 to 1.44 and the core speed from 3.6 to 3.7 or 3.3 to 3.6 on a 95% load. Why is that ? Does it have to do with the green options the motherboard has ?

PS: Can't put the system's info in the signature because i don't have the option.

 

[Aldakoopa]

Hello and Welcome!

I wish to know if i can get the system stable from 3.6Ghz to 4.0Ghz on this motherboard. I attached 2 snapshots of my CPU-Z.

I don't see why not...

The thing is, i am afraid to do it without guidance because i haven't seen an overclock done on a BIOS similar to mine and many of the voltage, multiplier, etc have different names, so, there is my dilemma. I uploaded pictures of my BIOS, hopefully, you can tell me what should i change and what should i let default.

Your BIOS is a little bit different than what I'm used to with mine; it won't allow you to set Vcore directly, only add voltage to stock. Hmmm...

One last thing. I performed a 15 minutes Prime95 Blend test and my core voltage was up and down from 1.35 to 1.44 or 1.428 to 1.44 and the core speed from 3.6 to 3.7 or 3.3 to 3.6 on a 95% load. Why is that ? Does it have to do with the green options the motherboard has ?

I too had problems with my core voltage at all stock settings ("auto"). I would also see it up in the 1.4 range (which is completely unnecessary, in my opinion) but most of the time mine would stay around 1.32, which is still higher than the stock voltage of 1.25.

To get the voltage to stop fluctuating so much, you might try typing in 0 on the CPU over voltage setting for now.

Also, when you see your core speed boost from 3.6 to 3.7, that is the AMD turbo core technology. You will want to disable that, especially since you want to overclock past the speed it gives you in the first place.

Secondly, when you see your core speed drop to 3.3, that is APM throttling. This has to do with the chipset of your board. The 9xx series chipsets (970, 990X, 990FX) have the option to disable APM in the BIOS, which eliminates the throttling. The 7xx and 8xx series chipsets do not have this option. Your board has a 780 chipset, and mine has an 880 chipset, for example. Neither of ours support disabling the APM and will throttle the multiplier down to 16.5.

Why? I dunno.

What I do know is there is a fix for this, at least on the 8xx series, I'm not sure if it will work on the 7xx series, but I guess we're about to find out. It's called AmdMsrTweaker, and I may have to get you a download for the file later, but basically it's a program that you can have start up when you log into Windows, and all it does is turn off the APM to prevent the throttling.

 

[themrmster]

Hello and Welcome!

Thanks you.

Your BIOS is a little bit different than what I'm used to with mine; it won't allow you to set Vcore directly, only add voltage to stock. Hmmm...

To get the voltage to stop fluctuating so much, you might try typing in 0 on the CPU over voltage setting for now.

The option "CPU Over Voltage" starts at 1.112500V and goes in increments of -/+ 0.003125V. In the info tab it says:

"Standard = By CPU
Min = CPU - 0.3000V
Max = By CPU
-/+ Increments of 0.003125V"

Secondly, when you see your core speed drop to 3.3, that is APM throttling. This has to do with the chipset of your board. The 9xx series chipsets (970, 990X, 990FX) have the option to disable APM in the BIOS, which eliminates the throttling. The 7xx and 8xx series chipsets do not have this option. Your board has a 780 chipset, and mine has an 880 chipset, for example. Neither of ours support disabling the APM and will throttle the multiplier down to 16.5.

Why? I dunno.

What I do know is there is a fix for this, at least on the 8xx series, I'm not sure if it will work on the 7xx series, but I guess we're about to find out. It's called AmdMsrTweaker, and I may have to get you a download for the file later, but basically it's a program that you can have start up when you log into Windows, and all it does is turn off the APM to prevent the throttling.

Isn't that a bad sign ? Can it be from that high voltage it runs ? I mean 1.44v for stock frequencies is high. The drop only occurs in Prime95 and lasts no more than a second. I never got a drop while playing under a load of 75%.

 

[Aldakoopa]

The option "CPU Over Voltage" starts at 1.112500V and goes in increments of -/+ 0.003125V. In the info tab it says:

"Standard = By CPU
Min = CPU - 0.3000V
Max = By CPU
-/+ Increments of 0.003125V"

Ok, if I'm understanding that correctly, then maybe try adding .0.1375V to get 1.25V (stock voltage)... I might be wrong, I guess that's how that works...

Isn't that a bad sign ? Can it be from that high voltage it runs ? I mean 1.44v for stock frequencies is high. The drop only occurs in Prime95 and lasts no more than a second. I never got a drop while playing under a load of 75%.

This is how trents explained APM (Advanced Power Management) in another recent thread I just read:

It's a key player in the green stuff - the throttling of voltage and CPU frequency under load when power draw is exceeding the TDP envelope.

Your 1.44V isn't good at all, but hopefully my earlier suggestion might fix that... but according to trents, APM throttles the CPU not because you're overheating, but because the FX-4100 has a TDP of 95 Watts, and these processors are notorious for high power consumption, especially when overclocked under load.

 

[ssjwizard]

LLC is completely unpredictable on this motherboard. I was unable to observe any kind of pattern to what it does at the various levels, basically no matter what you do its going to crank the vCore when loaded. I suspect this is to make up for the shoddy VRM.

APM can be disabled, but under a heavy load like P95 or F@H or something similar its going to throttle because of VRM temperatures. Adding heatsinks and fans to the MOSFETs and such will prolong the time before the drop but it will still happen.

 

[Aldakoopa]

LLC is completely unpredictable on this motherboard. I was unable to observe any kind of pattern to what it does at the various levels, basically no matter what you do its going to crank the vCore when loaded. I suspect this is to make up for the shoddy VRM.

APM can be disabled, but under a heavy load like P95 or F@H or something similar its going to throttle because of VRM temperatures. Adding heatsinks and fans to the MOSFETs and such will prolong the time before the drop but it will still happen.

I didn't know the board would be that terrible... that's sad.

I really hate they used those boards as basically low-end FX-support... why say it supports the processor if it can barely keep it at full stock speed?

 

[themrmster]

Ok, if I'm understanding that correctly, then maybe try adding .0.1375V to get 1.25V (stock voltage)... I might be wrong, I guess that's how that works...

This is how trents explained APM (Advanced Power Management) in another recent thread I just read:

Your 1.44V isn't good at all, but hopefully my earlier suggestion might fix that... but according to trents, APM throttles the CPU not because you're overheating, but because the FX-4100 has a TDP of 95 Watts, and these processors are notorious for high power consumption, especially when overclocked under load.

The "CPU Over Voltage" is the Core Voltage. I set it to 1.3 and ran a Prime95. All good. Gonna lower it to 1.25 and test again.

LLC is completely unpredictable on this motherboard. I was unable to observe any kind of pattern to what it does at the various levels, basically no matter what you do its going to crank the vCore when loaded. I suspect this is to make up for the shoddy VRM.

APM can be disabled, but under a heavy load like P95 or F@H or something similar its going to throttle because of VRM temperatures. Adding heatsinks and fans to the MOSFETs and such will prolong the time before the drop but it will still happen.

So, the motherboard is . Should i continue overclock the CPU or there is no point in doing that ? Or continue because not a lot of programs can load a processor to 100% ?

 

[ssjwizard]

I really hate they used those boards as basically low-end FX-support... why say it supports the processor if it can barely keep it at full stock speed?

If he were to put a 6xxx or higher chip in it wouldnt even be able to maintain stock speed. I had to underclock my wifes CPU by about 400Mhz when I was using that board to prevent throttling.

The vCore scale claims to be the standard same as the high end stuff but I cant say that I have actually seen it perform that way. Sometimes you raise the vCore and it goes nowhere. Sometimes you lower it and it goes up. Sometimes you do nothing and it changes anyways... Across 5 different BIOS LLC settings did whatever they wanted. I cant say I saw any real difference in voltages between LLC on 100% and set to disabled.

So, the motherboard is . Should i continue overclock the CPU or there is no point in doing that ? Or continue because not a lot of programs can load a processor to 100% ?

your using a two module chip , so it may be possible to get some OC going if your never going to load down more than 2 cores at a time in some game. TBH its not even really worth it on this mobo though because 3Ghz non throttling will still get the work done faster than 4Ghz + drops down to 1.4Ghz to cool off the VRM.

 

[trents]

Don't know if you have modified the bios settings from what they were in your first post but the first thing you need to do is take "CPU Ratio" off of "Auto" and put it to manual. That will allow you to overclock the cores with the multiplier and is the simplest way to go about it. The other main thing to do would be to take "CPU Overvotlage" off of "Auto" as you will need to increase it at certain points to restore stability as your CPU core speed increases.

Concerning fluctuation in fequencies and voltages you need to disable the "green stuff", including: Cool N Quiet, Turbo Core, C1E, C6 and APM.

As you overclock, increase your CPU ratio by .5x increments and after each increment of increase, stress test with a 20 minute Prime95 blend run with HWMonitor open on the desktop to monitor CPU socket temps (CPUTIN?) and package temps. Don't let the former exceed 70c and the latter exceed 60-65c. When you can't pass the 20 minute Prime95 stress test (failing means blue screen, lockup, spontaneous restart, or some of the four core workers drop out) add .025 to the CPU overvoltage which should be at stock levels at the outset of your overclocking. Don't add CPU voltage until you have to, i.e. when you encounter instability.

 

[themrmster]

Don't know if you have modified the bios settings from what they were in your first post but the first thing you need to do is take "CPU Ratio" off of "Auto" and put it to manual. That will allow you to overclock the cores with the multiplier and is the simplest way to go about it. The other main thing to do would be to take "CPU Overvotlage" off of "Auto" as you will need to increase it at certain points to restore stability as your CPU core speed increases.

I set the CPU voltage from Auto to 1.25V and i will start from here. If i want to increase the performance across the board i need to overclock with FSB right ? Can FSB be known as "CPU/HT Reference Clock" ? It appears under CPU Overclocking set on manual. Has values from 200 to 550.

Concerning fluctuation in frequencies and voltages you need to disable the "green stuff", including: Cool N Quiet, Turbo Core, C1E, C6 and APM.

I disabled Cool n Quiet, Turbo Core and C6. Cannot find C1E even tho it appears in the motherboard's manual right under Cool n Quiet but not in the BIOS where the C6 is. I have an APM option under Power tab but all the settings have to do with waking up the pc from different devices.

 

[RGone]

Cannot find C1E even tho it appears in the motherboard's manual right under Cool n Quiet but not in the BIOS where the C6 is. = Do you know why it apparently is not there? They are using it with a bios that 'claims' support for FX processors in a manner to throttle the speed and voltage to keep from ruining the motherboard.

If you put the processor in the board and do not fool with it the board will 'support' that processor. If you think you will overclock the FX processor even though only 4 core, it will likely act fonky all the time in some manner.
RGone...

 

[themrmster]

Cannot find C1E even tho it appears in the motherboard's manual right under Cool n Quiet but not in the BIOS where the C6 is. = Do you know why it apparently is not there? They are using it with a bios that 'claims' support for FX processors in a manner to throttle the speed and voltage to keep from ruining the motherboard.

If you put the processor in the board and do not fool with it the board will 'support' that processor. If you think you will overclock the FX processor even though only 4 core, it will likely act fonky all the time in some manner.
RGone...

Sad news... At least i learned something today. Performance doesn't come cheap.

Thank you all for the answers.

 

[rfried]

M5A78L-M/USB3 and FX-6350 Overclocking

Hello,

I also did some overclocking Experiments with my
Asus µATX AMD780G Chipset Board running a AMD Vishera CPU...


Hardware:

CPU: AMD FX-6350 (3.9GHz) with Noctua NH-C12P SE14 Cooler
Mobo: Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 - BIOS: Version 1801 (11/12/13)
RAM: Corsair CML8GX3M2A1600C9 (Kitof2; 2Rank DDR3; 1600MHz)
​

Stable Overclock:

4300MHz (200MHz FSB x 21.5 Multi; Toggling between 3600 and 4300)
VCore 1.36V (Toggling between 1.26V and 1.38V)
CPU(TMPIN0): 58C
Mobo(TMPIN1): 37C
PSU: be quiet E9-CM-680W/BN199
​

BIOS Settings (Changed from Optimized Defaults):

JumperFree Configuration:

Memory Clock Speed: 1600MHz
CPU Ratio: x21.5 4300MHz
AMD Turbo CORE tech: Disabled
CPU Over Voltage: 1.371875​

CPU Configuration:

Secure Virtual Machine: Enabled
Cool 'n' Quiet: Disabled
Core C6 State: Disabled
​

Onboard Devices Configuration:

Serial Port1 Addr.: Disabled
Parallel Port Addr: Disabled
HDAudio Controller: Disabled​

APM Configuration:

Restore on AC Power Loss: Last State​

Hardware Monitor:

CPU Q-Fan Function: Disabled​

SATA Configuration:

SATA Port1 - Port4: AHCI
SATA Port5 - Port6: AHCI​

Test Workload:

• Prime95 Blend on all cores(6)
• Unigine Heaven (Ultra Settings, Res. 640x360)
• Windows Media Player (Play 720p HD Video from NAS)

(No error for 120 min and still going)


Further Tests Results (unstable Overclocks):

Board was completely unstable at 4.6GHz (Prime95 SUMOUT
and PowerSupply cutoffs).
4.5GHz did not run stable Prime95 for 10 min.

Wenn enabling Cool n Quiet and C6 i got PowerSupply cutoff at 4.3GHz.

Running Prime95 without Unigine and NetworkVideoPlayback Workload
seems to be stable with 4.4GHz.

VCore and CPUClock toggling begins when more than 2 cores running Prime95 Blend.

When disabling CoolnQuiet/C6 the System Idle Powerconsumption
increases from 70W to 100W.

The Board only gets stable after installing an 8x8cm Fan
(Noctua NF-R8 with ULNA) in 8cm distance blowing directly
at the CPU Powerregulators.
Without this extra cooling not even gettings the board stable
at default clocks. No joke - I got an SUMOUT Error on
one Core after running Prime95 Blend for 1h (Same Workload as
described above :-O).

I can confirm that VCore and LLC are unpredictable with this Board/BIOS.




Has anyone tested FSB Overclocking on this Board?
Is there an AMD 9xx Chipset Board with µATX Formfactor?

rfried

 

[RGone]

These are the types of information that most users supply in order to be able to help them very much. That is if you are wanting to higher and not just giving a report on that entry level mobo.

You can google mircroATX AM3+ and you may find one or two. They would not suit me well for heavy overclocking like I do. But they do make them.

Go in bios and Disable > C1/E, Cool N Quiet > C6 > TurboCore > APM if in bios > Enable HPC if in bios. Go to windows power management and Set to "performance mode". Then do as outlined below and 'attach' not link your pics to the forum.

CPU Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

Memory Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

SPD Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

And this is screen capture of HWMonitor (free version) from CPUID com
HWMonitor has been scrolled enough and large enough to show Min/Max of Voltages and includes the CPU CORE TEMPS fully visible.

This capture is made of HWMonitor after it has been open on the desktop logging Min/Max temps and voltages while Prime 95 was running Blend Mode test on all cores for at least 20 mins and then the capture of HWMonitor was made and it shows the Min/Max temps and voltages before P95 Blend was started and while running P95 Blend mode and gives much greater insight into how the system is performing without guessing.

In order to attach screenshots of INDIVIDUAL images as suggested, first crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool found in Windows Accessories or equivalent. Then click on Go Advanced, a button at the bottom of every new post window. Then click on the little paperclip tool at the top of the Advanced post window when it opens. Clicking on the paperclip tool brings up the file browser/upload tool and the rest is fairly obvious.

You can upload more than 3 images by repeatedly use BROWSE for file to upload. Images will appear in the post in the order they are uploaded unless you physically arrange the images differently.

 

[rfried]

After getting system freeze and restart with 4300MHz
I lowered the frequency to 4200Mhz. The system was stable then,
but looking at CPU VCORE with OCCT I see still these voltage
toggling between 1.38V and 1.27V and the frequency goes also
down when VCORE is lowered to 1.27V.

So I take AMDMSRTweaker to disable APM.
AmdMsrTweaker.exe APM=0 did it and this massive voltage toggling stops and the frequency is stable
(only occasionally small glitches).

With disabled APM going up again to 4300MHz and the rig run stable by
increasing CPU Over Voltage in Bios to 1,381250V
with the described Workload (Prime95, Unigine and Mediaplayer).
Also C&Q and C6 can be enabled with this settings.
And the FSB can be increased to 202MHz and the system is still stable.

Did some testing with 4400MHz with disabled APM, C&Q and C6.
But different VCORE and LLC did not help and got SUM and Rounding
errors in Prime95.

So now I stay by 4343MHz, CPU Temp 60C, VCORE 1,37V and Package 53C.
This gives a increase of 9% in 3DMark06 CPU Benchmark and
11% in 3DMarkVantage CPU Benchmark.

Regards
rfried

 

[RGone]

Now see if it is truly stable and run P95 in blend mode for 2 hours which is our normal defacto test of stability.
RGone...