Overclocking and memory questions

[Ningengami]

Here is what I'm working with:

Phenom 1090T Black
G.Skill Sniper DDR3 - 1866 (4x4gb)
Asus Crosshair 4 Formula
Silverstone 1000watt powersupply

First off I'm not looking to overclock insanely. Simply looking to have something better than the standard.

Just got my new RAM. Its advertised frequency is 1866. In order to get 1866mhz out of the RAM I purchased I needed to go into BIOS. When I turn up the frequency my computer refuses to boot. It refuses to do so above 1300 mhz.

Currently my CPU is overclocked using the motherboards auto overclocking.
After un-overclocking my CPU, from 3.7 back to 3.2, I am able to crank the RAM up to 1600mhz.

BIOS told me I'm currently running CPU at 3.7, and my DRAM freq is ~1300.
During this boot I downloaded CPU-Z and this is what its telling me:
CPU
-Core speed: 3724.3MHz
-Multiplier x16
-Bus Speed 232.9MHz
-HT Link 2095.1MHz
Memory
-NB freq 2095MHz
-DRAM freq. 620.8MHz

Essentially my goal is to run the memory at 1866mhz and keep the cpu overclocked to 3.7. From what BIOS is telling me its running ~1300, so I'm not sure what CPU~Z is telling me.

Not to familiar with all the acronyms. I've tried a few of the guides and they come across as very confusing.

Can anyone provide help? Let me know if any additional information is required.

 

[Psycogeec]

I cannot help with that configuration, but here is something i learned.

originally when showing the ram "frequency" they would just put the actual Divisor number in
1/2
2/3
3/4
1/1
5/4
the human just did a bit of math , and multipled the "base Frequency" to fractions, and got the Ram frequency.

say the FSB thing was at 400, and the divisor was at 2/3 about 266 then with the DDR2 running 2x that triggering on both the high and low signal ~528.
If the divisor was 1:1 , then 400 is 400 (800 for 2x ram)

Next came them putting 2 different BIOS display methods, that try to show the total Ram frequency numbers, instead of the simple divisor that is being applied in the actual hardware.

One , the ACTUAL base frequency had the Math applied
whatever the ram was actually running at (approx) would be displayed in the bios as you changed the Divisor or the Base frequency.
600
620
640
670
890
910
1210
1220
etc
And the number changes with the user entered or auto changed Base frequency. so it mostly shows the actual frequency it will run
Still what was showing was the Base frequency multiplied by the Divisor


Method 2 , the "normal" base frequency had the MATH applied in the bios display, but does not actively continue to do the math when the base frequency is different, the numbers are based on 200 266 or 333 400 or whatever the normal FSB base would be for the board
600
800
1066
1340
etc And NEVER CHANGES
Any time you Overclocked , these numbers were practically useless, and do not represent reality
as the Base frequency changed, the numbers did not reflect the changed ram frequency
Asumption here is that number might be setting for Type/Speed Of ram you purchaced/installed , not how fast it is now being pushed when overclocked.

At all times nothing more is happening than the Original thing, a Fraction OF the base frequency is what you are changing, reguardless of the method used to attempt to display the running ram frequency in the bios

(yes some of the numbers are not real, only as examples)

in the well written example you provided, it is likley that CPUz is correct, and that the numbers shown in the bios are based on some original frequency , and when you CHANGED the original frequency (or the auto OC does) the Bios still just show what the ram would be if it was the original frequency.

all the overclocker has to do, is Back think in the fractions that the hardware actually uses, or set the ram numbers at "standard fsb" knowing that as you OC they too will go up.
.

 

[Ningengami]

In CPU-z, under the SPD tab, it lists four different frequency settings, under which are columns with different settings for CAS# latency, RAS# to CAS#, RAS# precharge, tRAS, tRC, Commandrate, and voltage.

Should I configure BIOS to match the 933mhz column to get 1866mhz from my memory?

 

[Ningengami]

Method 2 , the "normal" base frequency had the MATH applied , but does not actively continue to do the math when the base frequency is different, the numbers are based on 266 or 333 400 or whatever the normal FSB base would be for the board

So is it possible to turn up the FSB? what would that do for me?

 

[Ningengami]

I'm seeing a few settings that can be manipulated, I'm fighting the urge to tinker with them till I know more.

Can anyone tell me what impact these have:

CPU bus frequency, Cpu ratio, HT link speed, CPU/NB Frequency, Dram timing, and Dram driving.

Like I said I'm bad with acronyms so if there are acronyms for these lemme know.

 

[Psycogeec]

In CPU-z, under the SPD tab, it lists four different frequency settings, under which are columns with different settings for CAS# latency, RAS# to CAS#, RAS# precharge, tRAS, tRC, Commandrate, and voltage.

Should I configure BIOS to match the 933mhz column to get 1866mhz from my memory?

it is always more complex than that.
when the ram is set on SPD in the bios (AUTO for timings) , it should pick up on the proper settings VIA the information the ram info chip supplies to the motherboard bios.
And you should also be good with that for most overclocking it would do. Because of the high numbers.

all these items are a sort of "wait state" values,
often high Numbered wizz bang numbered ram isnt that much faster at all (it can be slower even designed to be overclocked higher), it is just primed to run at that frequency, often with more of these "wait states".

if you set these paremeters manually, you could set them as shown, but (again) it should do that 90% the same when on SPD and picking them up automatically.
it doesnt always do that, and the bios might not actually HAVE those numbers, and sometimes it doesnt actually run at those numbers anyway (completly different discussion)

if you set them manually, you can also tweak these numbers endlessly to the least ammount of wait states , which for me and others at most will get you 2-3% extra speed and ONLY on ram thouroput. wasted my time i did.

If the motherboard is setting for way to many "wait states" for your shown settings on auto, potentially you could manually attempt to force them as the Ram Chip shows in CPUz , if your wrong you wont get boot
and sometimes the motherboard wont follow auto setting because it would not be as stable like that (and they know it).

Your system is beyond my present knowlege, and it is going to suck if i said stuff wrong. so you know. Wait states is my own wording not technically correct like many words i use.

 

[Psycogeec]

I'm seeing a few settings that can be manipulated, I'm fighting the urge to tinker with them till I know more.

Can anyone tell me what impact these have:

CPU bus frequency, Cpu ratio, HT link speed, CPU/NB Frequency, Dram timing, and Dram driving.

Like I said I'm bad with acronyms so if there are acronyms for these lemme know.

all that information is here and more, overclocking guides galore.
it is good to find persons with your exact same board item to get overclocking tips or guide from.
it is good to have a TITLE on your thread that has the board or hardware you need info about so the same hardware users spot it
The forum almost require that you have a signature that lists your hardware in it, so people know what your working with.

here are some RAM abbreviations (timing)
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651249&highlight=acronyms
(dram)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645425
some guides

i could not find the abbreviation guide that exist here, somone else will know
http://www.overclock.net/new-members/6410-overclocking-acronyms-dummies.html
here is one pigpile list , at least it is limited to computers.
.

 

[Psycogeec]

http://www.overclockers.com/step-guide-overclock-amd-phenom/
(gosh i hope this was the right one, it looks like it is just what you need?)

I'm seeing a few settings that can be manipulated, I'm fighting the urge to tinker with them till I know more.
.

that is actually how people found the peak settings, and created the guides, after going through, beating themselves to death with a bunch of weirdly named settings things, seeing what they do, and what the effect is on stability and speed.

A) if you have cooling, and know that your not going to fry your chip (hard to do with intel chips)

B) if you know how to do the easy recovery from a bad setting (so called bad overclock) , to get back to bios or booting, as usually shown in the manuel for a board with overclocking.

C) If you are carefull with going too high on the Voltages <-- very important espeically on some systems.

D) and preferably you have a disk backup of the system.

you can go hog wild on settings , and not damage anything permentally.

if your not going to OC crasy high, it is pretty simple to follow a guide or users tips with the Same Motherboard , and just dont push it as high as they did. test it, and roll with it.

Even with the same board same chip, you could get different results , or find a way that a setting works that has not yet been documented, and create your OWN guide or tips.

and finnaly how to find out if it is 100% stable before the GOTCHAs hit
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335813
.

 

[trents]

Ningengami,

Let's keep this simple.

When using DDR3 ram CPU-z will always post the memory speed on the basis of a DDR2 memory bus. To get the raw speed that your DDR3 ram is actually running at, multiply by 2. Thus if CPU-z is telling you that your ram is running at 666 it means 1333 in DDR3 raw speed terms.

The reason you computer will not boot when you have your ram set at the full 1866 speed is that 1. 1866 is the "overclocked" factory rating of your ram. If you look at the JEDEC column to the far right of the CPU-z "SPD" tab and compare it to the other JEDEC columns you will see the ram needs extra voltage and looser timings in order to run at 1866 mhz. 2. The ICM (Integrated Memory Controller) of the current generation of AMD CPUs is only rated for 1333 mhz and 3. Running large amounts of ram and more than 2 sticks increases the chance of instability when overclocking. Do you really need 16 gb of ram to do what you do? Most people find 4 gigs and 2 sticks to be plenty for most all applications except things like Photoshop and video editing. Most other apps just don't benefit from heaps of memory.

I suggest taking two sticks out and cutting the ram frequency back to 1333. Leave the timings on auto for now. Do this and see if it makes it easier to overclock. Don't mess with the CPU frequency. Leave it at the stock 200 mhz and just use the ratio multiplier. Bump the multiplier up .5x at a time and with HWMonitor open to monitor temps, run 20 minute Prime95 blend tests to check for stability. Start at stock CPU voltages and when you encounter instability bump up the CPU voltage to restore stability. Repeat this cycle until you begin to reach core temps of mid 50s c.

 

[Psycogeec]

see now i wish i could figure out how to correct my post so it reads correct.

cpuz is showing the "memory clock frequency" not the "data rate", and the data rate is still 2x the "memory clock frequency"?
that hasnt changed any from DDR2 to DDR3 right?

 

[trents]

cpuz is showing the "memory clock frequency" not the "data rate", and the data rate is still 2x the "memory clock frequency"?
that hasnt changed any from DDR2 to DDR3 right?

Correct, and you expressed it eloquently than I did.

To edit a post just go down to the bottom of the post window and click the "Edit" button.

 

[Psycogeec]

Correct, and you expressed it eloquently than I did.

To edit a post just go down to the bottom of the post window and click the "Edit" button.

i got that part covered, it is what it should say that needs and editer (always)