Phenom II Unlocking and Overclocking- weird behavior

[ichaelm]

So I signed up for this forum today just to make this post, so sorry for being newby or whatever.

About 2 weeks ago I finished putting together a new system with mostly new parts. The CPU is a brand new Phenom II x2 555 BE, and the motherboard is a new ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, and the RAM is a pair of DDR3 dual-channel Kingston somethings rated at 1600 MHz. It has air cooling with a huge radiator and quiet fan that seems to work really well (coolermaster V8). The HDD and the case and most of the other stuff is old and used (by me), except the PSU (which I bought in a new-looking box but it has a sticker on the inside that says "REFURBISHED", oh well it works fine). So anyway after I got it to POST I hooked up the screen and went into the BIOS. The stock settings were:

200 MHz base clock
"AUTO" CPU multiplier (which is actually 16x unless you enabled cool-n-quiet)
100 MHz PCIe bus (which runs the internal graphics and maybe the HDD, idk)
"AUTO" CPU/NB multiplier (which is 10x unless you change the FSB clock)
"AUTO" HyperTransport multiplier (same as CPUNB)

Also this motherboard had this feature that supposedly unlocks the dormant cores automatically, but I wasn't really counting on that.

So I boot up into windows XP fine from an old HD. Then, when I rebooted, I just flipped the unlock switch and it showed up with all 4 cores It was stable at stock speeds with linpack for hours (Intel Burn Test). Then I upgraded to windows 7 x64 (took hours to get it to install right) and it didn't make a difference with the stability. Then I experimented with the unlocked CPU multiplier, and it seemed like the max stable cpu speed was 3.9 GHz with a multiplier of 19.5, at like 1.45 volts (4.0 would work, but not under high stress with safe voltages) This is all with 4 cores.

So 3 days ago I decided to reset the cpu multiplier to auto and try playing with the base clock instead. I got it up to 244 MHz, which was 3.904 GHz on the CPU and it was completely stable (2 hours of maximum stress linpack). It didnt pass the stress test at 225. So I left it at 244 and started experimenting with benchmarks and the CPU/NB and the HyperTransport bus. It turned out my system performed best when I left both of the multipliers at 10x (instead of letting them auto down to something less when I had the FSB overclocked). So I left it like that. At this point all the voltages were still auto. I had to leave the CPU voltage at auto if I wanted to use cool n quiet, which I like for everyday unintense use (like writing this post). The CPU NB voltage was like 2.35, which worried me a bit, but I've never overclocked with an AMD processor before, so i figured if it was on auto it must be ok.

So yesterday afternoon I was using the computer and I was done so i decided to put on linpack just for fun while I was not using it. But literally seconds after I started it, I got a BSOD. So i thought, hmm that's weird, maybe I'll take it down to 243 MHz. So I did, and I left linpack running while I mowed the lawn and had a snack. It ran for about an hour with no errors. Considering my computer hadn't even had time to heat up before it crashed the last time, I figured it was just a fluke. I left it at 243. Then, later that same day, I rebooted it and ran linpack again just to be sure. It wasn't immediate this time, but within 2 minutes it had crashed again. Now I was pretty confused, because I had just ran it for an hour successfully. So I went down to 240. I booted it up and ran linpack, this time it crashed in 5 minutes. So I did some experimenting to find out what was wrong. I underclocked the RAM and the CPU/NB and the HyperTransport, but not the CPU, to see if the cpu was the problem. It was. Then I put everything back at stock settings, plus the core unlocking. No crashing. Then I raised the cpu multiplier to 19.5 again, and it crashed under stress. So then I left it at 3.9 GHz but I turned off the extra 2 cores. No crashing. Then I activated just the first 3 cores at the same speed, no crashing. Then I activated the 1st, 2nd, and 4th cores only, no crashing. Then I activated all 4 cores, and it crashed under stress. So I was thinking about trying it at 3.8 GHz, but meanwhile I restarted it with all 4 cores. The bios gave me a message, something like, "This CPU does not have any cores to unlock! Press F1 to go to BIOS, F2 to boot without the core unlocker" So I pressed F1, and the bios looked completely normal. It recognized my processor the way it normally did, seemingly. So I rebooted it and apparently now I had my 3.9 GHz quad core again. I rebooted again and set all the settings to stock in the bios and turned off the core unlocker because I didn't want to mess up my brand new CPU.

So obviously the whole core unlocking thing is not supposed to be reliable. But does anyone have any theories about what's going on? Something definitely happened to it recently, but I don't know what.

Another note: The cooling is working great. With 4 cores at 3.9 GHz at full load with linpack, the absolute maximum temp I ever saw was 51 C. I guess that's just enough to crash it at 4 GHz, but I'm satisfied. I thought about replacing the fan with a more powerful one, but I enjoy the quietness.

The system is still pretty fast at stock settings, so I might just leave it that way if it seems risky to do more testing.

Any ideas? Also thanks in advance!

 

[xoke]

How long have run run it unlocked (all 4 cores) at stock speeds with a stress test.

My initial theory is that core(s) might have been turned off for a reason...maybe it's just flaky. I think the process is complicated by the memory controller being built in to the CPU.

 

[trents]

. . . "AUTO" HyperTransport multiplier (same as CPUNB) . . .

. . . I had to leave the CPU voltage at auto if I wanted to use cool n quiet, which I like for everyday unintense use (like writing this post).

. . . The CPU NB voltage was like 2.35, which worried me a bit . . .

. . . Any ideas? Also thanks in advance!

I'm exhausted after reading that post. Whew! You were saving up for that one!

The first three things above in quotes cause me concern.

First, it is true that unattended your HT will rise in lock step with your CPUNB (or just "NB") in CPU-z. If you allow the HT transport to get above 2000 mhz, however, it is likely you will experience instability. So, as you overclock the system bus upward from 200 mhz you need to manually adjust the HT downward to stay at 2000 mhz or slightly less. At the same time, you want to keep your CPUNB (or just "NB" in CPU-z) at 2200-2400 mhz.

Second, turn off Cool and Quiet! That is a notorious stability sabotager at the overclock levels you were at.

Third, you have cause to be concerned with the 2.35v CPUNB setting. Take it back to 2.25.

In addition to that, you might want to give your ram voltatage one or two small bumps. Speaking of ram, you would do well to test it overnight with Memtest86+. The behavior you are describing could indicate a flaky ram module.

Have you discovered CPU-z? It's a freeware program that reports a lot of valuable info about your system. Hope this helps.

The other thing I wanted to say was there is confusion over the terminology surrounding CPUNB and NB. Some bios designers will use the term NB to refer to the on-board graphics chip and CPUNB to refer to the CPU integrated memory controller. Others will use the term NB to mean CPUNB and something else like "IGP controller" to referr to the onboard graphics. The section of the bios these terms is found in is the key. When NB is found with other CPU and system bus overclocking options then most likely it is the CPUNB. If is found in the section with a lot of "Chipset" stuff is most likely the on-board graphics.

There, I got kind of long-winded myself, huh?

 

[jstutman]

Im assuming your talking socket temp? As core temps are disabled when you unlock the cores. There is no exact science but consider about +5C on the temp when figuring core temp.

 

[Kozo]

Very long winded indeed. Cool n quiet work very nicely at stock clocks and small over clocks but your best bet is to just disable it for stability reasons. You seem to have a decent idea of what is going on but to understand the AMD Phenom IIs, go to Dolks Phenom II thread, linked below, to know everything you need for them.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596023

Far as core unlocking goes, I have seen many situations where people can unlock at stock setting fine or overclock, but not both.

 

[coonmanx]

I found with my unlocked cores that the only thing that I needed for stability was a small bump in CPU-NB from 1.12 up to 1.22. Now it runs very stable. You might give that a try.

Good idea to go to User CP and Edit Signature so we have your system information.

 

[ichaelm]

xokeman: I tested it over a week ago with 4 cores without overclocking for i forget how long... At least an hour. So far there are no problems without over clocking (even with unlocked cores).

trents: Yeah, I didn't want to miss anything When I get around so messing with it again, I'll disable Cool n Quiet. That definitely seems like a good idea. And also when I tested it a few days ago, I just overclocked the cpu with 4 cores and nothing else (not the CPUNB or the HT), and it still crashed. That might add to the stability, but its definitely not the onyl cause. I'll try to leave those at auto for now though (they automatically stay at 2 GHz or below).
Also, when I was keeping the CPUNB and HT at stock, I was also keeping the ram at stock, and it still crashed. It only crashes when I o/c the CPU with 4 cores, even if the RAM is at stock speeds or lower. I'll run that memtest thing tonight though just to make sure they're not faulty.

jstutman: Actually when I use the asus monitoring utility, PC Probe II, it shows me what appears to be the true cpu temp somehow. It is much higher than the socket temp. And no other utility will do that when I have it unlocked. Maybe it's not actually the cpu temp, but just a sensor ASUS put really close to the cpu. Idk. I'll see if I can find out where pc probe gets its CPU temp data from.

kozo: thanks!

coonmanx: Yes I probably should experiment with the CPU NB a little more. And I'll do the sig thing now.

 

[QuietIce]

ASUS Probe II is usually very good at matching the core temp, but it isn't the core temp, it's the CPU temp. Before you unlock anything you should compare the Probe II temp to the actual core temp (as read by the program CoreTemp) while the CPU is under 100% load. Probe II is usually pretty close but it should still be checked before relying on it ...

 

[ichaelm]

Can't find how to change my signature. This is sad.

Also thanks quietice! I'll probably experiment this weekend and I'll post if anything changes.

 

[boucher91]

i have 2 diff asus boards here pc probe11 and cortemp there about 7c diff on one and 1c on the other coretemp is the higher readings......sooo?????
maybe this helps

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Can't find how to change my signature. This is sad.

Also thanks quietice! I'll probably experiment this weekend and I'll post if anything changes.

On the top, click "User Cp." On the left side of the screen will be a list of links. Choose "Edit Signature" and then fill in the rest.

 

[ichaelm]

Ok thanks!

 

[Grayson80]

bsod at boot up!

Hi all i hope its ok for me to post here if not forgive as i am new to the forums.
anyway i have purchused a x2 555 be and was able to unlock all 4 cores but i get bsod's everytime i try to load into windows vista 64. I have tryed all kinds of diff voltages with no diff results. I have alot of exp in custom builds and think i already know what the deal is but i do hope i am wrong. what i think is that i got one of the chips with one or more bad cores, but like i said im hoping that this is not the case. I am using the stock cooler and have tryed a 125 w cooler from a 6000+ it didnt make a diff between the two. my mobo is an asus m4n78 pro with updated bios,ram - c xms2 800, psu - corsair 750 watt, antec 900 case (good cooling) ati 4870 1 gig.
Please help if there may be any hope! thanks.
I forgot to mention that i had unlocked my friends x2 555 be on this same machine and was able to play cod4 for around 5 min before it would freeze. i figured i just needed better cooling for the cpu so i went out and purchused mine from micro center but did not buy cooling for it as i wanted to see if i could unlock the cpu and boot first. so here i am with bsod's and not feeling very happy at the moment ;(