Problems with NB and iGPU on JetWay board

[Dooms101]

I while ago, I bought a very budget computer and I've been adding to it ever since and doing some mods and plenty of OC'ing. I got a JetWay XBLUE-N78V micro-ATX mobo for a cheap price. It has a really good BIOS for OC'ing (suprisingly) and it managed to push my 7750 Kuma to 3.7ghz without NB cooling and a crappy Ultra 550watt PSU. However, now that I don't have a graphics card, I've been running on the iGPU. This is fine since I don't normally do any graphics intensive. I am temporarily running on stock AMD cooling, and a 120mm KingWin XT-1264 D.H.T. cooler with dual 80cfm push pull fans is on order along with a Cooler Master 40mm chipset fan and copper heatsink. So in a few day I'll be able to keep all the hot stuff cool for better OC'ing. The only problem I am having is that the iGPU seems to be overheating (the HS is getting to like 57C full load.) There also seems to be some 2D artifacting alot, although 3D is fine as far as I can tell and I am not having crashes or anything. I tried undervolting the NB (which I am assuming the iGPU is built into) to 1.01v and I've tried overvolting to 1.27v (stock is 1.2v). Anyone know if my extra cooling is going to help?

 

[Jolly-Swagman]

The NB cooler should make a bit more of a difference to cooling the chipset,
What GPU were you running before and did you do a driver cleaner if it was an ATI GPU as the old driver may be conflicting with the NV chipset

 

[Dooms101]

It was the one in my sig. MSI HD 4650... and I uninstalled the driver, I don't know of any good driver cleaners.

 

[Jolly-Swagman]

Here you go Driver Sweeper http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745

 

[Dooms101]

Oh thanks! I just ran it and it found a bunch of Ati driver "stuff" left behind. I cleaned it and I am gonna see if this fixes the problem. I also popped my old HS off the NB and I found my AS5 wasn't covering enough only like 60% of the chip surface. After cleaning and reapplying I got a 5c+ temp drop immediately. I'll report after I get the rest of my cooling to see if it helped. Quick question though: does PWM cooling effect OC'ing capabilities? Becuase right now, the power stages don't even have a HS on them and they seem to get kind of hot (maybe 50c when the cpu is @ 3.6gHz+). It does have mounting holes on it, I am just not sure how to measure it so I can get a hs for it.

 

[trents]

. . . and it managed to push my 7750 Kuma to 3.7ghz without NB cooling . . .

Are you talking about the CPU NB here or the on-board graphics NB? Cooling or not cooling the on-board graphics NB would have no effect on the CPU overclock. The CPU NB is built into the CPU die and gets cooled by the CPU cooler. There is much confusion over the terminology as some bios designers are still using the NB terminology to refer to the CPU NB and sorting out which "NB" is the graphics function and which is the on-die memory controller depends on what section of the bios its found in. The graphics NB is usually found in the chipset section of the bios.

And by the way, that's a pretty amazing overclock on a Kuma. Are you cooling with water? Usually, on air people struggle to get 3.4 on those.

 

[Dooms101]

I am talking about the actual NB on the mobo. I know the difference between the CPU NB and NB. The NB has the built in GPU and that is what is getting so hot. Even though it's a BE, I still had to push the system clock a bit which also
pushes the NB freq. as well. And the farther I push my CPU, the hotter the NB would be. The only reason I hit 3.7gHz (as opposed to about 3.64gHz in the case) is because I opened the case and attached an 80mm fan to the NB HS. At the time I was using a TT SpinQ and the case in my sig. Yes I've been told 3.7gHz is really unusual. I think I just got a good one

 

[trents]

I am talking about the actual NB on the mobo. I know the difference between the CPU NB and NB. The NB has the built in GPU and that is what is getting so hot. Even though it's a BE, I still had to push the system clock a bit which also
pushes the NB freq. as well. And the farther I push my CPU, the hotter the NB would be. The only reason I hit 3.7gHz (as opposed to about 3.64gHz in the case) is because I opened the case and attached an 80mm fan to the NB HS. At the time I was using a TT SpinQ and the case in my sig. Yes I've been told 3.7gHz is really unusual. I think I just got a good one

I've never heard that before, that the chipset NB gets pushed harder when the system clock is increased. So do I understand you to say you are overclocking with the CPU clock multiplier and the fsb (I know, a dated term)?

 

[Dooms101]

Well my NB frequency uses a multiplier (x9 for 1800mHz) based off the system clock (new term for fsb =)). So for example, if I bumped the system clock up to 225mHz, then my NB would be running at 2025mHz (225mHz x 9), I would set the NB multi down to x8 but my only options are to change the HTT multiplier. So if I were to set my HTT mutli to x8 my HTT would run at 1800mHz (stock) but my NB would still be running at 2025mHz. Obviously, in order to make it so my NB can keep up with the higher clock, I have to up the NB voltage so it's stable. The more voltage, the higher the temps, which also results in instability and since the iGPU is on the NB, I get really weird artifacting at high temps. I am just wondering if it's a software problem, but I don't think so =( Hopefully the new HSF on the NB will keep it cool when I get it.

 

[QuietIce]

Whoa, wait a minute! We're definitely having syntax problems here. The NB (chipset) does not have a "speed", per se. The IGP and sideport memory both (usually) have some kind of speed control but the one's I've dealt with don't use it as a multiplier and it's nowhere near the speeds you're talking about anyway (more like 550-700 MHz for the IGP speed). So I'm real confused about what you're saying. A NB speed of 2025 MHz that is NOT the HT Link has got to to the cpuNB or maybe sideport memory (though I doubt that).


Yes, you'll often run into problems with the IGP and sideport memory when increasing the HTRef. For me it helped to go in and adjust the IGP and sideport memory speeds. I had to increase the sideport one step and the IGP two steps (I think) so maybe those don't increase on their own and I had to increase them manually to get them to "match up" to the HT Link (IF I remember what I did - it's been awhile since I messed with that stuff). Heat will be a problem in any event - no electronics likes heat - so running it cooler may help but I'd bet adjusting their speeds would help more.

The MOSFETs (or PWM's if you prefer) can effect OC'ing. Hot power chips tend to be a little less stable and supply erratic power instead of a clean flow. The more you tax the system the worse the problem will get. Like I said, NO electronics likes heat ...

 

[Dooms101]

Hmmm... well now I am confused. I am not talking about OC'ing the iGPU at all. The problem is that it is located on the NB, and the NB is getting hot from OC'ing (I'll get to that in a minute) and when it gets hot, the iGPU freaks out and I get crappy video. At first I thought it might be a driver problem, but I doubt it is now since I got rid of all the ATI drivers from my 4650, and now I have the right Nvidia drivers. As for OC'ing the NB, I am really confused about it now, because I thought I was OC'ing the NB freq. but I guess not. What I was going by was the NB freq read-out under the memory tab in CPUz. As I push the system clock, the NB freq. in CPUz and the HT freq. both increase accordingly to a x9 multiplier. However, when I go into BIOS and set a lower HT multiplier, the HT freq. in CPUz changes accordingly, but the NB freq. stays as if it was still using a x9 multi. Also, the farther I push the system clock the hotter the NB becomes, so I was assuming they're related. I am not really sure. Also, keep in mind I am using an nForce 720a chipset, in case that changes things.

Since re-applying the AS5 on the NB heatsink, the temps have dropped considerably. The thing I've noticed, is that when the NB reaches 56C the video becomes crappy, and the higher the temps, the crappier the video. However, I don't see the NB getting past 54C now that I have fresh TIM on there =)

 

[trents]

I don't doubt that your NB chip is getting hotter as you OC. I'll take you're word on it. I just find it strange that it is doing that if you aren't, somewhere in the process, increasing our on baord gpu speed or voltage or both. On the other hand, maybe the chipset architecture of the Nvidia 8100 and how it communicates with the CPU is significantly different than with the 700-800 AMD chipsets.

QuietIce, can you conjure up a diagram of the 8100 chipset connections? You're good at t hat stuff.

 

[Dooms101]

Hmmm well I can't seem to find much info on how to OC the 720a chipset, but the good news is: I found out that many people's 720a chipsets run around 50c - 60c+ so my 56c wasn't so bad, although now it runs 48c full load =D

 

[QuietIce]

Here's a link to how the nVidia 780 chipset is put together, probably near the same as yours. It looks like nV turns the "normal" NB and SB functions around - or you could look at it as positioning the SB in front of the NB, if you prefer. Very odd ...

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-nForce-780a-SLI-Motherboard-RoundUp-Asus-MSI/

In any event, the "NB" speed you're seeing in CPU-Z is the cpuNB (on-board the CPU), not the NB chipset - and that holds true regardless of the chipset you're running.


Did you try adjusting the IGP speed up a little? I had to do that when I increased my HTRef much over ~215 MHz ...

 

[Dooms101]

In any event, the "NB" speed you're seeing in CPU-Z is the cpuNB (on-board the CPU), not the NB chipset - and that holds true regardless of the chipset you're running.

Ahhh... well that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

And I've tried adjusting my IGP freq's but the nvidia tuner doesn't want to allow me, and even RivaTuner is refusing. So... I guess I am stuck with what I got. The good news is, it's gotten better since reapplying the TIM. But since I am on the subject, what benefits are there to having my cpuNB running faster, and the same for the HT link?

 

[trents]

You can't adjust the frequency of the IGP in bios?

 

[QuietIce]

Ahhh... well that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

And I've tried adjusting my IGP freq's but the nvidia tuner doesn't want to allow me, and even RivaTuner is refusing. So... I guess I am stuck with what I got. The good news is, it's gotten better since reapplying the TIM. But since I am on the subject, what benefits are there to having my cpuNB running faster, and the same for the HT link?

The cpuNB contains, among other things, the IMC (Integrated Memory Controller) and L3 cache so any and all memory-related transactions (except core-only L1/L2) go through the cpuNB. Obviously, any increase in cpuNB speed will help memory performance on more than one level.

There is no real advantage to increasing the HT Link speed except with two very high-end gaphics cards you may see some negligabled increase in performance. With some systems it does help stability but on others it hurts stability and some it doesn't matter one way or another.

You can't adjust the frequency of the IGP in bios?

Yeah - it would be kind of odd if you couldn't. But I suspect it'll need to be done in BIOS ...

 

[Dooms101]

Hmmm.... how much of increase in performance would I get by pushing the cpuNB freq? As far as adjusting IGP speed, there is no option in my BIOS for it, other than this odd setting that I don't know what it does. It's under the "Integrated Peripherials" section instead of the "Advanced Chipset -> VGA Settings" section. It's called IGP Spread Spectrum and has the following options: Auto - 1% - 2% - 4% - 5%. I have no idea what it does. Is it odd the RivaTuner and the Nvidia tuner wont let me adjust my IGP speeds?

 

[coonmanx]

Leave the Spread Spectrum settings alone. Nothing to be gained there. Usually there is a setting like IGP Frequency Override which needs to be enabled.

 

[Dooms101]

Hmmm... well I've looked around at every single option, and there doesn't not appear to be anything to change the IGP speed. Maybe it's locked or something? That would explain why the software tuners wouldn't work. =/ it wont matter for long anyways since I'll be getting a new dedicated GPU for my b-day in the coming months. Anyone have any suggestions for a GPU around $130? I'd like an Nvidia solution, but since ATI is the only one to support DX11 I'll consider them. The only thing that might limit me is my power supply, it has a single PCI 6-pin with a 26a rating.