QUESTIONS

[quovadis]

Hello all
I am a first time pc builder and a first time over clocker. I used the Ai suite 3 on an Asus z490 prime A motherboard with an intel i7 10700k to overclock the cpu. Actually i Used a feature called 5 way optimization. I was sweating I was so nervous.

questions
1. There are so many ways of overclocking, The bios, Ai suite has two ways, the Ai tuner and the 5 way optimization. Then you have that extreme tuning facility...which do I use first?

Question 2
I used the 5 way optimization and now my cpu is at 5 ghz as opposed to stock (3.8).
I do not feel comfortable, so i went back into Bios and pressed F5 then f10, and rebooted. I am still at 5!! I want to go back!!
After rebooting 10 times it's still at 5...

I wrote to Asus and they started telling me I have to perform surgery on the case, and put metal pins or connectors into some god forsaken place, pins and short something or other? Then plug computer in hold for 5 seconds etc etc...
This sounds very intimidating. I want to make sure it's not a madman who wrote me with these antiquated and ridiculous proposals?

Cant these Asus people simply put a button somewhere? Or a click of the mouse in Ausus Ai suite 3 to revert to default clock? Am i missing something? Its can't be so complicated?

thanks

 

[trents]

What Asus was trying to get you to do is called a "CMOS reset," sometimes known as a "bios reset". Asus and other motherboard manufacturers do put CMOS reset buttons on some of their more expensive motherboards. Yours is not in that class. Lower end motherboards often have a pin block for this purpose and it works buy shorting across two of the pins (see X in my attachment for location) to clear (reset) the CMOS to factory state. By the way, you can accomplish the same by popping out the CMOS battery, the round flat battery. See Y in my attachment. Instructions for shorting the pins are also attached.

Generally, automatic overclocking tools such as you mention generally work quite well in newer motherboards like yours but often supply more voltage to the CPU than necessary to give stability at a given level of overclock. That can be okay as long as you have adequate cooling since more voltage means more heat. You would need to stress test your system to make sure your overclock is stable, temps are under control and you aren't getting thermal throttling because of high temps. Please list the rest of your system components such as CPU cooler, Power Supply, RAM, GPU, storage and case. Soon, we would ask you to put that information in a Signature so that it automatically travels with every post you make.

 

[connta]

If you can access the bios loading defaults is pretty much same as clearing CMOS by jumper (or battery), that is basically there if you can't enter the BIOS. Tbh most MB's that i worked with in last 10 years never really needed to clear CMOS by hw methods since most had the functionality to revert back to previous settings if boot fails and did it quite successfully. That process too can fail and that is when you have no option but hw CMOS clear, otherwise you are good with doing a reset from the BIOS (way less intimidating i guess).

Also, writing any big company for tech support wont get you far, never got me anywhere to be exact. They will most likely just throw a bunch of lvl1 basic answers like update your drivers and clear CMOS to get you as close to default where everything should work and their job ends. Forums like these are way better source of information.

 

[quovadis]

Thank you for detailed reply. Had I known the complicated process of reverting an overclock I would never have purchased this Motherboard, not even in my wildest most masochistic nightmares. Unfortunately the return window is closed. The only reason I bought it was because a few you tubers were raving about how good it was. How about flashing the bios? I have already done it a first time a few days ago, and it was very easy? Will that kill the overclock? I just feel shorting the pins sounds like a risky proposal, Plus, i'm an older gentleman an my eyes are not as good as they used to be.

OH!! another question. A few days ago after I installed windows for the first time I flashed the bios. The pc was not overclocked at all. It had no overclocking software on it. I went into newly flashed bios, and put XMP2 profile. (GSKILL customer service told me to do this for their memory). I went into windows, loaded up Gpu-Z, AND SAW THE CLOCK WAS AROUND 4.7!!! So XMP2 does also overclock CPU? I thought it was just for a memory profile. The pc was perfect at that time (before the 5 ghz overclock and all the Asus bloatware software.
Why does XMP 2 overclock?


Details of PC are :
CPU Intel I7 10700k
Mother board : Asus Z490 Prime A
Cooler : Cooler Master MasterLquid 240 with Swiftech Helix fans
RAM : G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM
GPU : Geforce Gygabyte 2070
case : Corsair R275 Airflow
Fans : Cheap 120mm fans (3 of them)
PSU : Corsair 750 Watt
Storage : Corsair Force MP600 M.2 + Corsair ssd + Western digital mechanical
OS : Windows 10 Enterprise

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I suppose there is another way of doing this, but this sounds risky as well. If i uninstalled AI suite, then loaded Intel extreme tuning utility an set that at 3.8. That should override the cpu? The problem is that then two systems would be fighting each other. The Ai suite that first loaded optimized defaults VS the Intel extreme tuning utility software. I want to try this just to see what happens.
Alternately I could restore windows Image backup (that I created after the fresh windows install), redo a bios flash. The former should kill the overclock?)

 

[connta]

BIOS - first instance of control over the system, everything you do in AI Suite or Intel XTU is only a shell for BIOS settings but inside windows, so you can do it "on the fly". Using two different programs to overclock is just pointless, AI Suite or Intel XTU, make your pick and stick with it. You can always enter the BIOS and hit F6 to load defaults, its equal to shorting a jumper on the motherboard and cannot do any harm in that sense you are referring to as "fear", loading defaults is as safe as it gets.

AI Suite/Intel XTU - Both do same thing only, as said both are just windows shell to the BIOS settings. Try both, pick one.

XMP - Is not overclock, XMP just sets your memory to manufacturers settings. Use it always without any fear. It is technically memory overclocking but automated and manufacturer tested, just use it and dont worry.

"Phantom" boosts - Motherboard partners are using certain "loopholes" in the Intel spec to boost processors beyond their original spec so their MB looks better in tests, they are all doing it. The boost you are seeing on default is probably due to MCE being on. Find an option in BIOS called "Multicore Enhancement" and turn it off, you probably wont see any phantom boosts after that. XMP is not doing anything to your processor in regards of its multipliers, using it may up the VCCIO and VCSA voltages more than needed but thats another story.


Tweaking world isnt for the faint of heart, theres a lot of reading to be done and a lot to understand and if you going to "fear" every procedure it might not be for you. In any case I sugest you start by reading a more extensive Skylake oc guide to get yourself familiar with how the whole thing works. Modern processors are basically pre overclocked, theres very little point in casual OC these days.

 

[trents]

quovadis, as long as you follow the instructions for the CMOS reset, there is no danger to the board because it has no power to it when you do this. I think there are only two pins in the CMOS reset block so just put a screwdriver tip across them. If you have visual impairment, perhaps a magnifying glass would help. Or remove the CMOS battery as I explained.

I find it curious that you built a system yourself but find a CMOS reset to be intimidating. And if a relatively simple process like clearing the CMOS is daunting to you, perhaps you should not be overclocking. I hope this doesn't offend you but I'm just trying to save you from the anxiety of knowing you have gotten into something that might be over your head. The CPU you are using is quite powerful at stock settings and should be more than adequate for most any computing use.

 

[quovadis]

quovadis, as long as you follow the instructions for the CMOS reset, there is no danger to the board because it has no power to it when you do this. I think there are only two pins in the CMOS reset block so just put a screwdriver tip across them. If you have visual impairment, perhaps a magnifying glass would help. Or remove the CMOS battery as I explained.

I find it curious that you built a system yourself but find a CMOS reset to be intimidating. And if a relatively simple process like clearing the CMOS is daunting to you, perhaps you should not be overclocking. I hope this doesn't offend you but I'm just trying to save you from the anxiety of knowing you have gotten into something that might be over your head. The CPU you are using is quite powerful at stock settings and should be more than adequate for most any computing use.

It has taken me two weeks to build this system, and one mother board replacement and two case replacements. I broke things on the first mother board, had to return it. The case had a USB header (for the front usb functions) I plugged it into motherboard and wanted to remove the plug to see how easily it would remove. I pulled on the plug and it ripped the socket off the mother board. So i returned both. The second case, I took the thermal glass off the case whilst the pc was vertical. after the 4rth screw one of the corners of the glass case fell about 1" to the tile floor. I was holding a thermal glass panel that had shattered into 1000 pieces. Luckily the 4 sides have a black tape border, and these hold the shattered glass together.
Having said the above, you can see the angst I have with regards to overclocking. But it's a good angst, I want to learn.

Here is what I have learned in the past few days after flashing the bios at least 15 times to reset it.

1. Xmp2 profile overclocks the memory, and also overclocks the cpu to about 4.8. Cpuz reads 4.8. Go figure?
2. Ai tuner ai optimizer, overclocks to 4.9, or 5 sometimes.
3. The 5 way optimization also overclocks to 5-5.1, a 34% increase over stock.
4. Both the ai tuner or the 5 way optimization kill the xmp2 profile. Go figure?
5. I get a better score on cinebench with XMP2 turned on and no ai tuning (4959).
6. If I do 5 way optimization it gives me a 34%-36% increase and says it's optimized to 5.1.
7. When i do a cinebench it never goes to 5.1 but remains at 4.8. My score is inferior (4760).
8 Intel extreme tuning utility overrides all. When i set it to 5 or even 5.1, I get yellow messages (temp throttling) and some other throttle. Temps go up to 90 and 100 on some cores.
9 on Intel extreme tuning at 5.2, pc shuts down.
10. To restore defaults I simply go into bios and flash it again. This makes all overclocks go away.

What I need to find out, is what is the best voltage for a 5.2hz OC and apply that. I am not sure on how to do this. I read that we have to reduce voltage right?

 

[quovadis]

Something makes no sense. I just tried two cinebench tests without modifying a thing. the first test gave me 4959 the second 4700?
I have not changed anything?

 

[EarthDog]

Who knows why... maybe temps are involved? No clue... But after seeing number 8 above........makes complete sense, you're throttling and clocks are lowering thus performance suffers.

1. True.. but go figure? Not so much . This is how Asus does it. When you enable XMP, you also clicked on something to enable Asus enhancements. Your CPU boosts to 4.7GHz all c/t out of the box, note.
2. True. Depends on the CPU and cooler as to what it detects.
3. Yep. Though 34% is over the base clock, which it never really runs at. 4.7 GHz is all c/t boost for your CPU.
4. I've really never used it... but enable XMP after it should still take. We prefer manual overclocking here.
5. Cinebench I thought can respond well with memory... but without knowing exactly what sticks you have and what you actually started with, it's hard to say anything here.
6. See #3.
7. There is likely an AVX offset in the AI optimization (again, we like to OC manually ).
8. Well, this explains quite a bit....Clearly if it is reading throttling, it isn't running right. Temps need to be lower for that. What other 'throttle' was shown? Details help! If it is current limit, you need to adjust the power/current limits in your BIOS. Also, I don't use XTU to overclock but open it and leave it run to check throttling reasons. You should settle on working from the BIOS, honestly. All these optimization programs can be utterly confusing as you are seeing.
9. That clearly isn't good.
10. Uh, you can reset the CMOS without reflashing the BIOS. Please see your manual on how to actually do that on your board. Some have buttons on the mobo itself or rear IO, or maybe a header to short...

The best voltage is the least amount you need to be stable at a given clock speed. What that is, nobody knows as every CPU is different. Yours could be 1.40V while mine is 1.375 or 1.425. That's the name of the game. You also need to keep temperatures in order in whatever stress test you use. I prefer AIDA64 (CPU/FPU/Cache) for the CPU. I don't touch my memory because the effort isn't worth the gains. XMP and go.

 

[quovadis]

Who knows why... maybe temps are involved? No clue... But after seeing number 8 above........makes complete sense, you're throttling and clocks are lowering thus performance suffers.

1. True.. but go figure? Not so much . This is how Asus does it. When you enable XMP, you also clicked on something to enable Asus enhancements. Your CPU boosts to 4.7GHz all c/t out of the box, note.
2. True. Depends on the CPU and cooler as to what it detects.
3. Yep. Though 34% is over the base clock, which it never really runs at. 4.7 GHz is all c/t boost for your CPU.
4. I've really never used it... but enable XMP after it should still take. We prefer manual overclocking here.
5. Cinebench I thought can respond well with memory... but without knowing exactly what sticks you have and what you actually started with, it's hard to say anything here.
6. See #3.
7. There is likely an AVX offset in the AI optimization (again, we like to OC manually ).
8. Well, this explains quite a bit....Clearly if it is reading throttling, it isn't running right. Temps need to be lower for that. What other 'throttle' was shown? Details help! If it is current limit, you need to adjust the power/current limits in your BIOS. Also, I don't use XTU to overclock but open it and leave it run to check throttling reasons. You should settle on working from the BIOS, honestly. All these optimization programs can be utterly confusing as you are seeing.
9. That clearly isn't good.
10. Uh, you can reset the CMOS without reflashing the BIOS. Please see your manual on how to actually do that on your board. Some have buttons on the mobo itself or rear IO, or maybe a header to short...

The best voltage is the least amount you need to be stable at a given clock speed. What that is, nobody knows as every CPU is different. Yours could be 1.40V while mine is 1.375 or 1.425. That's the name of the game. You also need to keep temperatures in order in whatever stress test you use. I prefer AIDA64 (CPU/FPU/Cache) for the CPU. I don't touch my memory because the effort isn't worth the gains. XMP and go.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I greatly appreciate this.
Imagine i did the following : Removed all Asus bloatware, then reset bios to standard.
Is there a step to step approach on how to do everything from the bios?
Obviously it would need to be the Asus bios and not Gygabite or MSI. I wish all bioses (plural of bios) were identical, but they differ hugely. It's more confusing, when I'm looking on you tube at a guy overclocking his MSI bios and i dont have the same features on the asus bios. Even a change of color confuses me.
In order to do this I would need a step by step approach. What I do know is that I have to set the multiplier and voltage, then go to windows and perform a stress test.

 

[quovadis]

The higher I overclock (5.2) the worst my cinebench score becomes.
I actually did a manual overclock in the bios 5.2 and the score dropped a lot.
I get a better score at 4.9 than 5.2. How is this possible?

 

[connta]

It is really hard to follow you when you say "I actually did a manual overclock in the bios 5.2 and the score dropped a lot.". Gotta give us way more details, like what all the parameters and all the voltages. Stability test results, benchmarking results. Just saying higher/lower is not really much info, is it by 20, 50, 200, 500 points, what are we talking about here? You also have to monitor/log what the CPU is doing with the clocks, i sugest you check out HWiNFO tool, it will be overwhelming at start but you dont have to look at all that but some you absolutely must.

 

[EarthDog]

The higher I overclock (5.2) the worst my cinebench score becomes.
I actually did a manual overclock in the bios 5.2 and the score dropped a lot.
I get a better score at 4.9 than 5.2. How is this possible?

Have you checked the throttling reasons? Looked at the voltage differences? More voltage = more heat! You need to look at some of the details to answer the questions you have.

 

[quovadis]

Cinebench

Have you checked the throttling reasons? Looked at the voltage differences? More voltage = more heat! You need to look at some of the details to answer the questions you have.

So here are some updates. Excuse my slowness but i am trying learn by trial and error.
Cinebench scores vary hugely and I do not understand why. The minimum is around 4700 and maximum is 5100. First of all is this a huge variation? Or is this my perception of a huge variation? I use that new cinebench r20.

As to overclocking it took me 2 days to figure out how to use the bios. Asus bio just says the word AUTO in the core ratio section. If you click on "auto" nothing changes. I now understand you physically have to type in your multiplier (E.g. 50)

When i do overclock directly from the bios at 5.0 (or 50) my temps are high during the cinebench some cores go to 100c . I use the coretemp software and cpu-z whilst using cinebench. Is this correct?

Basically and XMP 2 and a core ratio multiplier of 50 is no good for cinebench scores and not for the heat.
So i reverted to using the ai suite 3. Every time I use the AI tuning, it bumps my cores up to 5.1 and the temperatures are much lower, than when I overclock manually. Why is this? The scores are also higher on cinebench (4900-5020).

I do have other questions about undervolting, but first i need to understand the above. In brief I used some silly little program (throttle stop) and undervolted 100 mv, the pc crashed. They said it was safe to go to - 100 and the damn thing crashes.

At this stage im not sure if am supposed to undervolt or overvolt or simply leave it alone?

 

[quovadis]

Yet another question. If i Run cinebench and get a score. I then run cinebench again (without tweaking anything) my score changes (normally -50-150) points lower. Is this normal?

 

[trents]

Yet another question. If i Run cinebench and get a score. I then run cinebench again (without tweaking anything) my score changes (normally -50-150) points lower. Is this normal?

It is normal to get variations from back to back CB R20 runs. Just standard deviations if the differences are minor. Sounds like you're still getting some thermal throttling. Higher overclocks require higher voltages which makes more heat so the CPU throttles down to stay within the manufacturer's power draw and temp envelope.

 

[quovadis]

Ok thats a good start, So I have to increase voltage, as opposed to decrease it. What increments at a time should i increase?

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You speak of voltage offset ? Right?

 

[EarthDog]

Get it off auto.

Set vcore to 1.30V and start with 50x multiplier and see if it works and your temps are in order. 1.3V may be the end of the line for that voltage.

 

[trents]

Ok thats a good start, So I have to increase voltage, as opposed to decrease it. What increments at a time should i increase?

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You speak of voltage offset ? Right?

No. I'm speaking of net voltage after the offset, whether negative or positive, is figured in. A higher net voltage will make a CPU run hotter which may cause throttling.

 

[quovadis]

GUYS??
i went into the bios and set all cores synchronized to 50. Then went to the voltage section below ans there's a ton of them. I do not know which one to change..
There's BCLK aware adaptive voltage, CPU core/cache voltage, Dram voltage, CPU VCCIO voltage, Cpu agent voltage, Pll termination voltage, pch core voltage...and so on and so forth.
You need to tell me exaclty which one to change and by how much.
I DO NOT SEE VCORE voltage, or OFFSET , these words are not there., unless they are on another page?