[REQ] Overclocking - CPU(AMD Phenom II x4 945) + MOBO(ASUS M4A79T Deluxe)

[5n4p]

Hello,

=- My Rig -=
CPU: AMD Phenom II x4 945

http://products.amd.com/pages/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=534&f1=&f2=&f3=&f4=&f5=&f6=&f7=&f8=&f9=&f10=&f11=&f12=

MOBO: ASUS M4A79T Deluxe

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A79T_Deluxe/#specifications

and for the record I am running liquid cooling.

Now my rig is pushing 3-4 years old at this point and I have always been against oc'ing, but from what I have been reading it looks like the scene has developed quite a bit! and I feel it's time for me to jump in.

Now since I'm a novice obviously I dabbled with TurboV and AMD OverDrive(automatic software overclocking - don't hate) - which pushed the processor to 3.3ghz and that was unstable for long periods of use. (temps stay within 35c => 45c)

When I looked at the settings I realized the "automatic" overclocking software just pushed the FSB up to what it considered "stable" (220mhz) - it didn't even touch the voltages or anything else...

In the case where a 3.3ghz OC is acting up - would it be correct to increase the CPU voltage slightly?

My OC settings currently:
FSB: 220mhz
CPU Voltage: 1.4
CPU Temps: 35c(idle)-45c(prime95)
and it still crashes within 10 mins of Prime95.
Sometimes even prime95 itself crashes and the computer pulls a BSOD with a memory management issue.

Now this brings me back to my board which apparently is well suited for overclocking... which leaves me with my RAM as a potential culprit -.-

Remind you, when I bought this thing years ago I really didn't care for overclocking (oddly enough I had an overclocking build because I knew I would want to get to it "eventually" and here I am).

RAM: Corsair XMS3 - 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1333

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145262

Anyone have any ideas why I'm experiencing these BSOD/Unstable issues while my CPU temps are well within safe boundaries?
Am I wrong to think of my RAM as a potential enemy in this case?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

(will post screenshots below)

 

[5n4p]

CPU-Z screenshots in attached.
(CPU - MEMORY - SPD)

(left to right)
First 3 Images: CPU-Z: Stock Screenshots
Second 3 Images: CPU-Z: OverClocked Screenshots

 

[EarthDog]

Please post screenshots of CPUz tabs. the first one, memory, and SPD tabs. Please host internally at this site so all can see.

 

[5n4p]

Please post screenshots of CPUz tabs. the first one, memory, and SPD tabs. Please host internally at this site so all can see.

done sir.

let me know what you think :3
Still not sure why it's crashing/not stable.

 

[trents]

First, realize that CPU-z does not report the memory's DDR3 transfer rate, it reports the memory bus frequency which is half of the DDR3 transfer rate.

The reason you are unstable is probably because your memory frequency is too high and your CPUNB frequency as well. Your memory is rated for 1333 mhz and you are currently running it at 1470.6 mhz (compare the CPU-z "Memory" tab which gives your current frequency and timings to the "SPD" tab JEDEC columns which gives the specs on the memory). Keep in mind that when you raise the FSB several other component frequencies climb in concert: the HT Link, the CPUNB and the Memory. So, you need lower the starting memory speed in bios from 1333 to 1066 to compensate for this and either lower the CPUNB Frequency and HT Link Frequency multiplier from the stock 10x to like 9x or increase the CPUNB voltage to like 1.225.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

I have a couple questions, then I have some observations and advice. But first, good work getting started - you know the basics, and you are off to a great start already. Especially with posting the CPUz details for us to help you with - makes it much easier for us to talk specifics.

First the questions:

45C is pretty cool, could you run some prime95 and report the load temp reported by coretemp after 5-10 minutes of running?

What components are in your liquid loop?

Advice:

When you increase FSB to 220MHz, it increases CPU frequency, HTLink (doesn't matter), CPU-NB frequency, DRAM frequency. Which one is unhappy? We could guess, but it is easiest (best) to only change one frequency at a time, see if you are still stable, and then adjust the voltage that goes with that frequency. With what you have done so far, you've changed CPU, CPU-NB, and DRAM frequencies, and also vcore - but we don't have any certainty.

So, eliminate variables:

1. You effectively changed CPU-NB from 2000 to 2200MHz. Reduce your CPU-NB multiplier by 1. Currently it is set to 10x220=2200mhz, you want it set to 9x220=1980mhz (stock). (2200mhz is likely not a problem, but going beyond 2000mhz doesn't help you much so it isn't worth risking instability). Do the same with HTLink.
2. You effectively changed RAM from 1333MHz to 1470MHz (this is probably the problem). Reduce your RAM multiplier by one or two, so that your ram frequency is back at 1333MHz (stock).
3. Once you have done both those things, then the only thing you have changed is CPU frequency and CPU voltage. Run Prime95 and see if it is happy. If it is not, you can change FSB or vcore to try and make it happy.

This should get you on the right track. Find what your CPU core likes to run at. Once you have done that, and are stable, you can look at increasing CPUNB and RAM, if you still want to worry about that - but the gains are much smaller compared to more core speed.

 

[Dlaw]

Your overclocked settings are pushing the memory to 735 (1470)MHz, which is likely too high for your memory which I am guessing is rated at 667 (1333)MHz. If you want to overclock your system, you should use the settings in the BIOS for the best results. Having said that, if you went into BIOS, you could reduce the memory frequency from 1333 (probably represented as either a ratio or as 667) to 1066 (the next lowest frequency or ratio), and when you use the software to overclock, it likely won't push the memory over it's rated frequency. Then, if your still unstable, try upping core voltage a notch, and see if that helps.

I posted this before IMOG and trents' posts loaded, and they are far more experienced than I, so listen to them.

 

[5n4p]

Great advice from all of you - thanks for not beating me up for being a novice hahah.

Remind me to sleep a bit more before posting ... I feel like I should have caught that RAM frequency issue even with no prior knowledge of OCing, but thank you!
I capped the DRAM frequency down to 1067mhz (silly me)

Now I'm playing around with the BIOS settings and I see no place to change a multiplier for HT-Link or the CPU-NB.
It DOES however allow me to cap the frequencies to 2000mhz (I'm assuming this is what I would want to do?)
or would you have any other suggestions to this?

Thanks for basically holding my hand through this ... lol

(I am currently running prime95 again with the DRAM frequency capped - looks a lot more promising)

 

[I.M.O.G.]

I'd cap it at 2K if thats the option. I don't know your bios though, so I'll assume you aren't missing another setting. I'm not sure how the "capping it" would work, I'm guessing it would automatically change the multiplier to ensure the frequency doesn't exceed 2000, regardless of FSB.

And Dlaw, your post was more to the point anyways. We weren't any more on target than you were.

 

[5n4p]

First the questions:

45C is pretty cool, could you run some prime95 and report the load temp reported by coretemp after 5-10 minutes of running?

What components are in your liquid loop?

After 20+ mins of prime95 the RAM frequency was the culprit here.

Temperatures look like they are idle:
Various temperatures from programs
Core Temp: 47c
Hardware Monitor: TMPIN0: 52c | TMPIN1: 31c
ASUS AI Suite: (mobo software) 52c

So I assume the true temp resides 47c<=>52c - this is at a 3.3ghz OC
(not too sure how much farther I can push it)

34c idle

Cooling:
Truthfully... I should know my own cooling but it's been so long since I even had to care about it - next time I open my rig I will check (which might be today at this rate hah)

It is a Corsair Hydro Series - whether is be a H40/H60/H70/H100 it's beyond me to say (I do not remember), but I think those are pre-filled with 'propylene glycol'?
I am not sure hah.

Any other advice is greatly appreciated!
I do not know why I waited so long to play with this, it's actually enjoyable.

 

[trents]

Sorry but please realize our terminology may not exactly coincide with what you see in bios. Every bios is different and so we use generic terms.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Cool, I had thought it might be a hydro series, thats good enough - I was mainly interested in what "class" of water cooling we're talking about (custom or retail).

The temps seem fine, though I don't have a lot of confidence in the absolute numbers. I'd push the CPU clocks up if you are stable with the current voltage, and see when it gets unstable (then backoff a little once you found your max, or increase vcore further). Just keep HTL, CPUNB, and DRAM around where they are using the other multipliers.

Nice work on linking the manual trents, that helps!

 

[trents]

What would be the most help to us helping you would be if you take digital camera pics of the relevant bios sections and attach them with your posts so we can see what you see.

 

[5n4p]

What would be the most help to us helping you would be if you take digital camera pics of the relevant bios sections and attach them with your posts so we can see what you see.

Here ya go!

Actually I realize when I set the FSB - and I go to change the CPU/NB + HT-Link Frequencies - Instead of actually showing me the multipliers it shows me the resulted frequencies. Apparently it does the math for me?
I guess that makes it an easy way to keep it at stock levels.

Sorry I am new to this scene - so I know you may not like some of those [Auto] settings hah, but I haven't found a need to touch them quite yet.

I appreciate the quick/kind/intellectual responses by the way- that's somewhat rare to find nowadays.

 

[trents]

Yeah, some bioses give the actual frequency for the HT Link and the CPUNB. You always need to keep the HT Link Frequency equal to or lower than the CPUNB Frequency. You can overclock the CPUNB Frequncy if you give it more voltage to support that but I suggest you keep in close the stock 2000 mhz for now and we can work on that one later. For now, bump up the CPNB Voltage to 1.2 please, just for stability insurance with regard to that component. Any one the supporting components can cause the system to become unstable if it gets too far out of spec or if if overclocked does not have enough voltage to carry the overclock.

 

[5n4p]

Yeah, some bioses give the actual frequency for the HT Link and the CPUNB. You always need to keep the HT Link Frequency equal to or lower than the CPUNB Frequency. You can overclock the CPUNB Frequncy if you give it more voltage to support that but I suggest you keep in close the stock 2000 mhz for now and we can work on that one later. For now, bump up the CPNB Voltage to 1.2 please, just for stability insurance with regard to that component. Any one the supporting components can cause the system to become unstable if it gets too far out of spec or if if overclocked does not have enough voltage to carry the overclock.

Ah, this might seem like a silly question to you.

But how do you check the CPU-NB voltage inside windows with some software?
Currently it's set to [Auto] - I'm just curious to see if it's actually rising with the FSB as well.

Apparently my CPU Voltage on auto does scale and it was actually recommending a lower voltage than I was running manually lol (I was obviously overshooting since I wasn't sure what was causing the original BSODs).

Currently it is running at 42c with prime95 another 20 mins into a 3.45ghz test.

tl;dr - Is there anyway to check the CPU-NB voltage in a software utility? If so... which one and where?

 

[trents]

Ah, this might seem like a silly question to you.

But how do you check the CPU-NB voltage inside windows with some software? You can check it with AMDOverdrive. It shows in one of the sliders in the Advanced tab. It's one of the few readouts in AMDOD that I have found to be accurate. You may also be able to read this with the overclocking/monitoring utility that came with your motherboard.
Currently it's set to [Auto] - I'm just curious to see if it's actually rising with the FSB as well. No, voltages do not rise with frequencies automatically. That's mixing apples and oranges.

Apparently my CPU Voltage on auto does scale and it was actually recommending a lower voltage than I was running manually lol (I was obviously overshooting since I wasn't sure what was causing the original BSODs). If the two were scaling together I would suspect you were using the overclocking wizard in bios or overclocking software which would manipulate each of them independently.

Currently it is running at 42c with prime95 another 20 mins into a 3.45ghz test.

tl;dr - Is there anyway to check the CPU-NB voltage in a software utility? If so... which one and where? I answered that above.

 

[I.M.O.G.]

TurboV can report CPU-NB voltage I believe. As you begin to increase CPUNB, you'll need to increase CPUNB voltage manually as well.

 

[5n4p]

appreciate the answer(s)

now in my BIOS in the above screenshot I also have options to change many other voltages.... any chance you could elaborate on some of them and how they would effect performance? (ex: cpu-nb voltage vs. nb voltage vs. nb 1.8v voltage) if not that's fine... cause I feel I'm already asking too much that I can google, but if you have 2 cents on any of those settings I'd be eager to listen (or read in this case lol)

 

[trents]

Voltages don't affect performance. We increase voltages to support higher frequencies. If you increase frequencies without supporting that with more voltage then the result is an unstable system. The higher frequencies (or speed) of the components is what gives better performance. If you force data electrons to go faster as they travel through the micro circuitry you need to give them more supporting voltage or the increased resistance they encounter in the circuitry causes data corruption and instability.