Secure Erase is not secure

[Ivy]

Shocking stuff what i read on that german site. The article isnt that old, few months only and does include actual generation it seems.


http://www.gamestar.de/hardware/ssd...sie_daten_auf_ssds_richtig,355,2482970,2.html

The issue is, even after using secure erase or many other overwritte tools, there is still many data previously stored still visible, especially on a SSD. Its even harder to completly erase on them than on HDD they say. I cant personally judge because im not a expert at such stuff but i feel kina shocked reading this. Since i do in no way want to give my data out of my hand in term i have to use warranty (i just dont know whats gonna happen with). Old plater im first gonna overwritte with 0 and 1,and then im gonna destroy it physically because there is simply no accurate way to get ride of it, there is always signs of old data. The only secure way is truly

, simply no joke even if it looks like. Or simply personaly throw a drive inside a incinerator, then its 100% deleted. But i didnt know that a SSD is even more insecure, that article is shocking and it does aswell verify my issues i had, that they in fact, even as a secondary drive, cause instability of the OS, because of stored bits which is hard to get ride of. Only when the power cable or PSU is shut off, it can be taken out.. in many cases. And only the "upper surface".

I try to find english stuff, but the most important infos are always rare on the net. Most is simply nonsense and guessing.

In the study the said, that they tested 12 SSD systems and the erase unit command only was able to delete the data of 4 of those.... four of those! The others still had many old data left the scientists said.. they was able to restore many data!!!

Now whats a alternate way, instead of warranty? Nothing.. Because when flash is used in order to get ride of the issue, users always should keep in mind that there is no warranty in term the flash failed and in fact, ANY WARRANTY WILL BE LOST AFTER. So the entire matter is a huge issue.

Most people are aswell not gonna flash a BIOS unless the PC is malfunctioning, because there is a risk of completly busting the PC, the risk is ALWAYS here, even if many cool youngster deny that fact. A working PC never needs a flash. Any kind of issues caused by it is NOT COVERED by warranty. Although, companys are providing the tools on "how to lose warranty" and im sure they do that with a smile. Stuff like that should be used when warranty is over.

Some other user say, and i totaly believe him because of own experience, that it does absolutly not matter about the endurance of NAND because when a SSD gets defective its usualy because of a defective controller. Many SF drives of that generation had those even out of the box. And when a SSD gets defective, and its only the secondary drive and not OS drive, in term the SSD does interrupt the OS, it can cause freeze and it can stay like that unless the SSD will lose its power. Because every SSD at the start of the OS will get aligned to the OS and TRIM command will start to run, and that moment the SSD, no matter where its located, can crash the whole system. Thats why i currently got many stability issues but only when i download to the second drive, and why it does only happen when i do that, and it even will crash startup unless i do remove the PCs power and completly restart. I soon will get insight of it but it took me lot of time.


So, the most easy stuff to reveal bad controller, is to download huge files on it (even better to DL several at once) and at the same time stream a video (i recommend to stream 10 at once using VLC) using a video player... and i get a failure once every few hours. In the usual daily use, a failure doesnt even appear, when its used as a "game drive", but when there is permannently data traffic, it does truly abuse a controller very heavy and reveal the truth. The load isnt a matter, its to short.. the controller can easely maintain stability at short peaks. When the controller lack to maintain stability it will freeze the OS, finish. Because the SSD controller got to much impact on the OS, it cant maintain stable condition with. The OS is permannently in communication with the drive and if that drive malfunction, so does the OS. However, for HDD it only happens on a OS drive because a HDD is only dependant on critical stuff when its storing OS data. The SSD however, is always attached in a critical way.

User are indeed labor rats, because they (the company) knew exactly that theyr products wasnt fully stable... they knew it! And testers, what do they test? They test peak peak peak... for which they are perfectly tuned for, short peaks. But how is theyr stability for media and excessive endurance? Rarely ever tested. The M4 seems to pass that test, the Vertex doesnt. Now, from the current generation, i can only recommend the M4, sadly. I want to stay as neutral as possible, so i only rely on personal experience, and i personaly own or owned those drives i am talking about. So its not like i am taking a certain political position here, just science. Ofc i feel like many bucks wasted but i have warranty and until yet i didnt have issues making use of it, still. So all in all i cant purge someone else for that matter.

Besides of OCZ or any other manufacturer says that theyr secure erase is secure, i only gonna believe them if they personally was delivering theyr drive to a scientist who is independant and is spelling out nothing but the unbiased truth.

 

[rrohbeck]

The same applies to magnetic drives. If a sector on a hard drive is replaced with a spare, "secure" erase will usually leave the old sector alone.

 

[mikeyw]

Surely it's one of the simplest jobs ever to simply make everything zeros.

 

[Mr Alpha]

Surely it's one of the simplest jobs ever to simply make everything zeros.

Except that's not what you do when you secure erase an SSD.

OTOH the study referenced in that article is a couple of years old by now. While the models aren't revealed I suspect non of 'em are for sale anymore. Any good modern SSD handles Secure Erase satisfactorily.

 

[Ivy]

I do want a proof, not words. Nope, overwriting SSDs doesnt delete all data, its same for HDD, overwriting HDD doesnt 100% wipe, old data can still be restored. I always hear amazing stuff what kind of data still got restored even after overwriting the whole HDD several times. And same can count for a SSD. Without proof i dont believe it.

SSD in fact might have lesser debris of old data, however, they got hidden blocks which can be used at controllers free will. But it doesnt necessarely delete them when overwriting. Secure erase, either it does set ALL modules to zero condition, or its not deleted. I mean every single cell without a single exclusion.

I can try to use secure erase and then send my drive in for test by a data restore expert. But that cost a lot since they usualy wont work for free, and if they find a single old data i .. ok im not gonna tell what will happen. I dont try, its not good for blood pressure.

handles Secure Erase satisfactorily.

Removed completly with every single bit is "satisfactory" to me. Just to get that right how different peoples view can be and what it means. When i make secure erase i have the intention to completly wipe it, not to delete a path and leaving all the data behind somewhere. Thats what delete usualy does, and its no difference on a SSD. Erase is the english word for a complete wipe, the highest grade without a single trail of old data, else its not erased. Delete does mean "freemaker", its not actually gone unless used by another bit. But even then, it can still have traces of old data on secondary layers which are still visible, its a complicated matter.

I find it important that people know about because i think like 90% of the nowadays PC users are not fully aware.

 

[hafa]

The only truly secure erase is this:



Seriously, if the data contained on your drive, SSD or mechanical, is extremely sensitive, it's likely worth the cost to simply physically destroy the drive.

 

[RGone]

it's likely worth the cost to simply physically destroy the drive. << Yep, but the comeback to that is I got to send it in for warranty or I want great aunt Tillie to get my hand me downs. Or well you get the drift. Pure hard logic, does not get it anymore.

Happy New Year.

 

[Mr Alpha]

Whole drive encryption has gotten popular amongst SSDs nowadays. The encryption engine is running all the time, even if you haven't enabled drive encryption. When you Secure Erase such a drive it dumps the FTL and wipes the encryption keys. Even though it doesn't over-write all the data, without the encryption key it is unrecoverable.

If you are worried you can write to the whole drives a bunch of times after Secure Erase. Since it has dropped the FTL it will not attempt to maintain the previous data, and so it will get over-written.

All of this depends on how sensitive data you keep on the drive. Even if the data is left on the drive after Secure Erase, recovering it is not easy. You have to dismantle the drive and read the raw data off of the flash chips, and since the data has been wear-leveled it will in pieces, randomly spread over the drive, which makes reassembling it really hard and in many cases impossible without prior knowledge of the data.

If the data you have on the drive is that important you should have been using whole drive encryption to begin with, because somebody stealing the drive before you Secure Erase it is a much bigger risk than somebody getting your Secure Erased drive and dismantling it in hope of recovering pieces of the data.

All that said, I agree with you that all SSDs should have proper Secure Erase support and as part of the Secure Erase it should garbage collect the entire drive.

 

[hafa]

...I got to send it in for warranty or I want great aunt Tillie to get my hand me downs. Or well you get the drift.

For personal data, that's usually fine. For professionals, however, especially those in the government, legal and health industries, there's a higher standard for non-disclosure and an attendant higher risk.

If the data is EXTREMELY sensitive, just shred it and be done with it. Far cheaper to shred a $250 drive than deal with 6-figure + lawsuits.

If the data you have on the drive is that important you should have been using whole drive encryption to begin with

+1

 

[Rpkole]

this is not 100% but you can always download CCleaner and use its wipe free space to get rid of old data that you dont want anyone to recover it offers to over write your free space with data anywhere from 1, 3, 7, and even 35 times which should be enough for anyone

 

[Neuromancer]

Whole drive encryption has gotten popular amongst SSDs nowadays. The encryption engine is running all the time, even if you haven't enabled drive encryption. When you Secure Erase such a drive it dumps the FTL and wipes the encryption keys. Even though it doesn't over-write all the data, without the encryption key it is unrecoverable.

Exactly this.

 

[Diggrr]

I use an Acronis boot CD so that the operating system is not involved in any way during the operation. Throw a new partition in the middle and then do it again. There are many wiping formats available in it also, not just DOD 7 level wiping, but harder still.

If it were secured data, well a strip of magnesium and a propane torch are absolutely %100!
I don't use SSD's.

 

[Theocnoob]

When I've done any kind of tax return, credit card purchase, anything at all personal on a HD and it is ready to die, I open it, take the platter out, and shred it into tiny little 1/2" pieces with plyers then scatter them in a few garbage bins and put the HDD with the PCB (which I smash) in another bin. You'd have to be a bad guy from mission impossible to even notice its a snipped platter and something like a supervillain to read it. Shredded ++.

Only absolute physical destruction erases data on any non volatile device. You can overwrite 10 000 times there's a chance you missed a piece. Like your CC number.

As Diggr said you can also melt it or demagnetize. I just destroy. SSD all the better cuzz you just need a hammer and RAM/ROM/NAND chips cant take a hit.

 

[Neuromancer]

Paranoia is great.

Far easier to hack your network or even just get a gun and physically take the necessary information from someone that afford the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment it would take to restore a properly erased HDD. Smashing and such is excessive IMHO.

But... if it makes someone feel more secure, then I suggest doing what you like

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Number one, it sounds like some of the SSDs were faulty.


With ATA secure erase, also part of modern HDDs, it's unrecoverable with software.
(Unless secure erase support is broken on the drive.)

And good luck using software to recover data from drive that's been wiped by DBAN with PRNG streams.
Or with the Gutmann method.

Unless there was a conspiracy where someone sabotaged the wiping software.

 

[Mr Alpha]

Number one, it sounds like some of the SSDs were faulty.
With ATA secure erase, also part of modern HDDs, it's unrecoverable with software.
(Unless secure erase support is broken on the drive.)

Broken Secure Erase was the original issue raised by the paper referenced by the german article OP linked to. Here it is for anyone interested.

It also raises the valid point that because SSDs wear-leveling simple overwriting data won't necessarily overwrite the data. When you write to a sector the SSD writes that data to a flash page, but when you then overwrite the same sector the SSD will write the new data to a new sector, leaving the old data still there. It won't be accessible through software, though. (Unless the manifacturer has some way to dump the raw flash data.)

 

[hafa]

...the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment it would take to restore a properly erased HDD. Smashing and such is excessive IMHO.

Although the equipment is expensive, engaging companies such as Drivesavers to do it for you costs far less.

In the nasty world of corporate and professional espionage, $2-3K is a pittance compared to potential returns for a determined, ruthless and unprincipled rival.

The reality is that HIPAA and most bar association policies lay the responsibility of data security squarely on the practitioner. Even if you're not found at fault, the loss of a mufti-million dollar lawsuit due to the divulgence of your legal strategy to a rival attorney after their goons stole your notebook (with an unencrypted drive) is something hard to swallow.

This is admittedly an extreme example, but should illustrate the point that in cases of EXTREMELY sensitive (I'll leave the definition of this term up to the individual) data, there's no alternative to shredding.

 

[rrohbeck]

(Unless the manifacturer has some way to dump the raw flash data.)

They do. They even have undocumented commands that allow raw access to the Flash array via the interface. I've seen a manufacturer field guy use it and I've done the same with magnetic disk drives when I worked in that field a few years ago. It's standard practice for manufacturing and debugging use.

 

[cw823]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505151-REG/Garner_HD_3WXL_Hard_Drive_Degausser_Model.html

That's what we use (healthcare)

 

[hafa]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505151-REG/Garner_HD_3WXL_Hard_Drive_Degausser_Model.html

That's what we use (healthcare)

Nice option for HDDs. I wonder what (if anything) it would do to flash-based media?