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TBRED B 2100+ in KT7A-R updates....
- Thread starter AMDGuy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Location
- Istanbul /Turkey
A new aproach to cpu update
Hi everybody
After alot of efforts I gave the Athlon 2200+ up and sold it last week. Now I am in search of a new cpu update for KT7A-R R 1.0.
A guy had written in Turkish computer forum four monthes ago that he has managed to have the Box XP 1800+ (TBred B) worked on a KT7A-Raid Rev. 1.0 board successfully with BIOS A9, 2x128 RAM(both 133MHz), pci=38 MHz, agp=76MHz, vcore=1.75-1,77, I/O volt=3,6, idle 39-40 degree, loaded 52 degree and mulitplierxFSB=12,5x152MHz=1900Mhz. (I found a print of his topic among my documents).
On the other hand AMD Athlon XP CPUs 1800+ (64 $), 2000+ (75 $), 2200+ (86 $) and above are available in the Istanbul first hand market (of course +% 18 VAT). 1900+ and 2100+ ara not available. Also It is possible to find a 1800+ or 2000+ in second hand market with lower prices.
Taking into consideration the availability of the cpus', do you recommend me to follow the experience of the above mentioned guy. How do you rate its values? Are they OK and reasonable?
Hi everybody
After alot of efforts I gave the Athlon 2200+ up and sold it last week. Now I am in search of a new cpu update for KT7A-R R 1.0.
A guy had written in Turkish computer forum four monthes ago that he has managed to have the Box XP 1800+ (TBred B) worked on a KT7A-Raid Rev. 1.0 board successfully with BIOS A9, 2x128 RAM(both 133MHz), pci=38 MHz, agp=76MHz, vcore=1.75-1,77, I/O volt=3,6, idle 39-40 degree, loaded 52 degree and mulitplierxFSB=12,5x152MHz=1900Mhz. (I found a print of his topic among my documents).
On the other hand AMD Athlon XP CPUs 1800+ (64 $), 2000+ (75 $), 2200+ (86 $) and above are available in the Istanbul first hand market (of course +% 18 VAT). 1900+ and 2100+ ara not available. Also It is possible to find a 1800+ or 2000+ in second hand market with lower prices.
Taking into consideration the availability of the cpus', do you recommend me to follow the experience of the above mentioned guy. How do you rate its values? Are they OK and reasonable?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Location
- Istanbul /Turkey
CPU ID of above mentioned guy is here.
AXDA1800DUT3C JIUHB 0251RPFW
AXDA1800DUT3C JIUHB 0251RPFW
How about update the BIOS to kt7a v1.3 's BIOS (version B4)?
I saw someone update his BIOS to v1.3's BIOS and found that it is more stable than using A9 .
http://fae.abit.com.tw/cht/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002734
(the forum is in chinese)
I saw someone update his BIOS to v1.3's BIOS and found that it is more stable than using A9 .
http://fae.abit.com.tw/cht/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002734
(the forum is in chinese)
I thought I would be the brave one to try out that untested bios everyone is afraid of. Let me assure you that it works fine.
I just put a Athlon XP 2400+ into my KT7E and it fired right up at 2GHZ. And now both my BIOS and Windows XP both say I have a Athlon XP (Tbred) running at 2.0 GHZ!
I'm already excited because I like many of you was thinking of upgrading my whole system but now I feel like I have a whole new computer. And I haven't even tried to overclock it yet!
(By the way, the reason I was so brave is because I have an extra KT7A v1.0 mobo that uses the same bios so if that modified one didn't work, I had an extra bios chip to put in there just in case.Now, of course, I will have to order another 2400+(or Barton 3000+) to put in that board.)
This is my first post to the boards, but I felt I should contribute something because I have benefited so much from everyone else's posts. Thank you to all.
I just put a Athlon XP 2400+ into my KT7E and it fired right up at 2GHZ. And now both my BIOS and Windows XP both say I have a Athlon XP (Tbred) running at 2.0 GHZ!
I'm already excited because I like many of you was thinking of upgrading my whole system but now I feel like I have a whole new computer. And I haven't even tried to overclock it yet!
(By the way, the reason I was so brave is because I have an extra KT7A v1.0 mobo that uses the same bios so if that modified one didn't work, I had an extra bios chip to put in there just in case.Now, of course, I will have to order another 2400+(or Barton 3000+) to put in that board.)
This is my first post to the boards, but I felt I should contribute something because I have benefited so much from everyone else's posts. Thank you to all.
eb1psu:
Welcome to the forum. As I mentioned before, I am not going to flash the BIOS just to see that it correctly displayed the CPU string name (I have only one borad and there is a risk anytime you flash your BIOS to a new version.
Augostino, is BIOS B4 an ABIT official BIOS version? Any member here currently use this BIOS? Is it stable for use with 133 FSB?
Welcome to the forum. As I mentioned before, I am not going to flash the BIOS just to see that it correctly displayed the CPU string name (I have only one borad and there is a risk anytime you flash your BIOS to a new version.
Augostino, is BIOS B4 an ABIT official BIOS version? Any member here currently use this BIOS? Is it stable for use with 133 FSB?
eb1psu said:
Aaarrgghh!! You just HAD to tempt me.......must...not...reach for....floppy....must...not...touch...download....
Oh, btw..welcome to the nut-house...er....forums...
...and I may be on the verge of acquiring a spare bios from a KT7E, so may not be such a risk to try after all...
Stupid question, but can an sd-ram slot run ddr-ram even at sd-ram speeds?
All the ddr-ram blocks I've seen so far have only 1 notch somewhere in the middle, and I understand the number of contacts/legs may be different. Just want to confirm...
All the ddr-ram blocks I've seen so far have only 1 notch somewhere in the middle, and I understand the number of contacts/legs may be different. Just want to confirm...
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Location
- Istanbul /Turkey
Defcon1
May I have your opinion for my quetion, if you have time?
May I have your opinion for my quetion, if you have time?
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2003
- Location
- Istanbul /Turkey
Thanks
Question is upthere, on this page (3), third and fourth sections from the top.
Question is upthere, on this page (3), third and fourth sections from the top.
L_P:
Congratulations. I am a bit disappointed with my KT7A (non RAID) because it could not run Prime stable at 133 FSB. Therefore the performance of my machine is the same as your KT7 (100 FSB). Just boot your multiplier to 22x (7.5X in the BIOS) and your machine should be able to run at 2200 MHz. You may need to bump up Vcore to make it run stable. Running Prime for 24 hours to check for stability of your system.
Isko:
I do not know what to recommend to you because it seemed to me your motherboard has problem with Tbred B. If I was you I will try with XP1800 (the one you showed us is a tbred B) with a wire mod to enable the last L3 bridge. I just got a box XP1800 with code DLT3C (0320 WPMW). Look around your area to see if you can get one of these CPUs.
Congratulations. I am a bit disappointed with my KT7A (non RAID) because it could not run Prime stable at 133 FSB. Therefore the performance of my machine is the same as your KT7 (100 FSB). Just boot your multiplier to 22x (7.5X in the BIOS) and your machine should be able to run at 2200 MHz. You may need to bump up Vcore to make it run stable. Running Prime for 24 hours to check for stability of your system.
Isko:
I do not know what to recommend to you because it seemed to me your motherboard has problem with Tbred B. If I was you I will try with XP1800 (the one you showed us is a tbred B) with a wire mod to enable the last L3 bridge. I just got a box XP1800 with code DLT3C (0320 WPMW). Look around your area to see if you can get one of these CPUs.
yeah that is the only draw back, but 66Mhz, in the FSB isnt gonna hut me much. I did notice that when I set the Ram to Hostclk + PCI so the ram will run at 133Mhz it crashs before it gets into windows
on my old Duron 1200, I could do it with no problem, oh well. still not gonna complain about it, I will upgrade to a newer abit mobo just not yet, but when I do ill stick the duron back into this mobo. maybe unless I get a 3000+
-L_P
on my old Duron 1200, I could do it with no problem, oh well. still not gonna complain about it, I will upgrade to a newer abit mobo just not yet, but when I do ill stick the duron back into this mobo. maybe unless I get a 3000+
-L_P
Isko, sorry for not replying earlier. But it was midnight in my part of the world...
Trimai's advise is good, provided you know how to do the wire mod to unlock the cpu. If not, you may not want to risk it as there is always a chance that you could burn out your cpu.
Your best bet would be a 2100XP Tbred-B. I am not sure as to why your mobo will not boot with the 2200XP as theoretically, it should without modifications. Hence, I'm a little hesitant to advise you to get it.
I have also reviewed your actions so far from this thread. That you have flashed the new bios (you may need to do this again) but with OC Master's version which I find to be quite stable. It could have been a bad flash that prevents your mobo from posting.
Maybe you could borrow a friend's T'bird (though I can imagine that this will be difficult) 2100XP-B or 2400XP-B to try. Review all the necessary steps again to prepare your mobo.
a) Reflash bios (be careful)
b) Clean up mobo. I have found that dust in the ram slots, or agp slots can be very upsetting.
c) Install your old cpu with a minimal set of components i.e. graphics card, floppy drive, hdd drive, one stick of ram only...and of course the keyboard and mouse.
d) Test that everything is working properly.
e) Reinstall a T-bird 2100XP - 2400XP type B.
f) Reboot.
You should have a boot-up that says "Unknown CPU at 2000 mhz" and an error message "Unknown CPU may not be usable. Press del to enter setup".
Doing this procedure will ensure that it is not another component, eg. ram, that is preventing boot-up. I would suggest that you REALLY make sure that your ram is not causing problems. Ram that is unstable may run with a slower CPU, but the moment you up the speed, they stop working. This, I have also experienced. My ram used to run at 148, Cas 2 stable (and they were cheap PC-133 Infenion ram blocks) at an ambient temp of 33 degrees, so you can imagine how hot they got. When they finally got unmanageable, I changed them, and still keep them as a reminder....every chip has a nice heat pattern on them...perfect examples of how overclocking can destroy your ram...
If you succeed, then install other components one by one to find the guilty component.
When you get to the stage of successful boot, post in this forum again. I check in several times a day, so I will reply usually almost immediately.
Trimai's advise is good, provided you know how to do the wire mod to unlock the cpu. If not, you may not want to risk it as there is always a chance that you could burn out your cpu.
Your best bet would be a 2100XP Tbred-B. I am not sure as to why your mobo will not boot with the 2200XP as theoretically, it should without modifications. Hence, I'm a little hesitant to advise you to get it.
I have also reviewed your actions so far from this thread. That you have flashed the new bios (you may need to do this again) but with OC Master's version which I find to be quite stable. It could have been a bad flash that prevents your mobo from posting.
Maybe you could borrow a friend's T'bird (though I can imagine that this will be difficult) 2100XP-B or 2400XP-B to try. Review all the necessary steps again to prepare your mobo.
a) Reflash bios (be careful)
b) Clean up mobo. I have found that dust in the ram slots, or agp slots can be very upsetting.
c) Install your old cpu with a minimal set of components i.e. graphics card, floppy drive, hdd drive, one stick of ram only...and of course the keyboard and mouse.
d) Test that everything is working properly.
e) Reinstall a T-bird 2100XP - 2400XP type B.
f) Reboot.
You should have a boot-up that says "Unknown CPU at 2000 mhz" and an error message "Unknown CPU may not be usable. Press del to enter setup".
Doing this procedure will ensure that it is not another component, eg. ram, that is preventing boot-up. I would suggest that you REALLY make sure that your ram is not causing problems. Ram that is unstable may run with a slower CPU, but the moment you up the speed, they stop working. This, I have also experienced. My ram used to run at 148, Cas 2 stable (and they were cheap PC-133 Infenion ram blocks) at an ambient temp of 33 degrees, so you can imagine how hot they got. When they finally got unmanageable, I changed them, and still keep them as a reminder....every chip has a nice heat pattern on them...perfect examples of how overclocking can destroy your ram...
If you succeed, then install other components one by one to find the guilty component.
When you get to the stage of successful boot, post in this forum again. I check in several times a day, so I will reply usually almost immediately.
And finally...<insert drum roll please>...
...this is why Trimai is having such a headache...and why our mobos will not run 133 mhz properly....
Article can be seen at:
http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/....html#xpsupport
Why does only the KT7A(-RAID) version 1.3 support the AthlonXP processor?
There has been much heated discussion about the failure of early KT7A motherboard revisions to support the AthlonXP and Duron (Morgan core) processors. These discussions have also been confused by incorrect statements on the ABIT (China) website, suggesting that the 64 BIOS release provided support for these processors. This is not true, and the issue is more complicated. The difference between the earlier Athlon processors and the new AthlonXP processor lies in the processor boot process. You can see the relevant boot timing diagrams on page 35, figure 10 of the Athlon Model 4 Data Sheet (for the older Athlons) and page 43, figure 12 of the Athlon Model 6 Data Sheet (for the Athlon XP). During the boot process, the motherboard must sample three data lines called FID(0:3) in order to determine the CPU multiplier setting. In the new AthlonXP processor, the timing requirements for this sampling has changed, and these lines only become valid 100ns after the Vcore power OK (PWROK) signal is asserted.
This means that if the motherboard does not apply an extra circuit to delay the NB_RESET# signal after the FIDs are fully valid, the motherboard may potentially get the wrong values from the FID lines. This is the reason why the earlier motherboard versions cannot support the AthlonXP processor. Getting the wrong FIDs may not always result in the system being unable to boot up - but it may result in the motherboard using the wrong parameters to initialise the processor, causing system instabilities under certain circumstances. On the earlier Athlon processors the FIDs are always valid after the Vcore of the processor is valid and this is why no motherboard has a problem supporting the highest frequency of old Athlon.
In practice, this change is very subtle. Many AthlonXP processors will work fine on earlier motherboard revisions. Others will work fine for some percentage of the time, but will require a hard reset during boot if this timing assertion is violated. However, only revision 1.3 of the motherboard contains the necessary hardware modifications to fully support AMD's revised timing specification. This is why ABIT cannot officially support the AthlonXP processor on earlier motherboard revisions - although if you can live with the occasional hard reset there is no problem. Furthermore, ABIT have made attempts to improve the timing compatibility with the 64 BIOS release, but still cannot officially support the processor on these revisions.
No BIOS release will allow ABIT to properly support the AthlonXP on motherboard versions prior to v1.3. However, in practice, the timing difference is sufficiently subtle that many processors will work fine, and others will simply require the occasional reset during boot. Once the processor has booted, the stability should usually be the same on all motherboards.
In some respects ABIT are simply being more honest than other motherboard manufacturers. In most cases the AthlonXP will appear to work OK - or have occasional instabilities. However, rather than pretending that a simple BIOS update can resolve the problem, ABIT are only officially claiming that the board with the proper additional circuitry can support these new processors.
Since originally posting this question, a few people have emailed me suggesting that the problem might be resolvable by unlocking the processor's multiplier using the L1 bridges and then setting the multiplier manually using SoftMenuIII. I can confirm that this solution will not work as this does not resolve the problem of the FID lines being unstable. If the bypass circuit incorrectly samples the high-low status of the FID lines, the power up issue will remain and hence this solution is not workable. However, locked or unlocked, a reset should always work as the PWROK line is always valid after the initial cold start.
On the Iwill forum at amdforums.com, some users have been able to get the cpu to run stably by lowering the Vcore to 1.65V or less and increasing the Vio by 10%. Wanna try this Trimai? Your cpu may comply, mine probably won't...
I will probably try anyway, but not tonight...got something interesting to do...but the moment I can spare the time...
...this is why Trimai is having such a headache...and why our mobos will not run 133 mhz properly....
Article can be seen at:
http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/....html#xpsupport
Why does only the KT7A(-RAID) version 1.3 support the AthlonXP processor?
There has been much heated discussion about the failure of early KT7A motherboard revisions to support the AthlonXP and Duron (Morgan core) processors. These discussions have also been confused by incorrect statements on the ABIT (China) website, suggesting that the 64 BIOS release provided support for these processors. This is not true, and the issue is more complicated. The difference between the earlier Athlon processors and the new AthlonXP processor lies in the processor boot process. You can see the relevant boot timing diagrams on page 35, figure 10 of the Athlon Model 4 Data Sheet (for the older Athlons) and page 43, figure 12 of the Athlon Model 6 Data Sheet (for the Athlon XP). During the boot process, the motherboard must sample three data lines called FID(0:3) in order to determine the CPU multiplier setting. In the new AthlonXP processor, the timing requirements for this sampling has changed, and these lines only become valid 100ns after the Vcore power OK (PWROK) signal is asserted.
This means that if the motherboard does not apply an extra circuit to delay the NB_RESET# signal after the FIDs are fully valid, the motherboard may potentially get the wrong values from the FID lines. This is the reason why the earlier motherboard versions cannot support the AthlonXP processor. Getting the wrong FIDs may not always result in the system being unable to boot up - but it may result in the motherboard using the wrong parameters to initialise the processor, causing system instabilities under certain circumstances. On the earlier Athlon processors the FIDs are always valid after the Vcore of the processor is valid and this is why no motherboard has a problem supporting the highest frequency of old Athlon.
In practice, this change is very subtle. Many AthlonXP processors will work fine on earlier motherboard revisions. Others will work fine for some percentage of the time, but will require a hard reset during boot if this timing assertion is violated. However, only revision 1.3 of the motherboard contains the necessary hardware modifications to fully support AMD's revised timing specification. This is why ABIT cannot officially support the AthlonXP processor on earlier motherboard revisions - although if you can live with the occasional hard reset there is no problem. Furthermore, ABIT have made attempts to improve the timing compatibility with the 64 BIOS release, but still cannot officially support the processor on these revisions.
No BIOS release will allow ABIT to properly support the AthlonXP on motherboard versions prior to v1.3. However, in practice, the timing difference is sufficiently subtle that many processors will work fine, and others will simply require the occasional reset during boot. Once the processor has booted, the stability should usually be the same on all motherboards.
In some respects ABIT are simply being more honest than other motherboard manufacturers. In most cases the AthlonXP will appear to work OK - or have occasional instabilities. However, rather than pretending that a simple BIOS update can resolve the problem, ABIT are only officially claiming that the board with the proper additional circuitry can support these new processors.
Since originally posting this question, a few people have emailed me suggesting that the problem might be resolvable by unlocking the processor's multiplier using the L1 bridges and then setting the multiplier manually using SoftMenuIII. I can confirm that this solution will not work as this does not resolve the problem of the FID lines being unstable. If the bypass circuit incorrectly samples the high-low status of the FID lines, the power up issue will remain and hence this solution is not workable. However, locked or unlocked, a reset should always work as the PWROK line is always valid after the initial cold start.
On the Iwill forum at amdforums.com, some users have been able to get the cpu to run stably by lowering the Vcore to 1.65V or less and increasing the Vio by 10%. Wanna try this Trimai? Your cpu may comply, mine probably won't...
I will probably try anyway, but not tonight...got something interesting to do...but the moment I can spare the time...
I don't understand where it says why we can't get 133 fsb to run on our boards.
Once the processor has booted, the stability should usually be the same on all motherboards
I would think it would have no problem running 133 stable but we all know that not to be the case. Of course, this only bothered me for about 2 seconds, because I still haven't gotten over the excitement of running a 2 GHZ cpu on my board.
I still tend to agree with an earlier post that theorized the combination of the 133 fsb and 2 GHZ+ speeds could be more than the kt133a chipset was ever designed to handle.
Once the processor has booted, the stability should usually be the same on all motherboards
I would think it would have no problem running 133 stable but we all know that not to be the case. Of course, this only bothered me for about 2 seconds, because I still haven't gotten over the excitement of running a 2 GHZ cpu on my board.
I still tend to agree with an earlier post that theorized the combination of the 133 fsb and 2 GHZ+ speeds could be more than the kt133a chipset was ever designed to handle.
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