Terrible results - ASUS ROG B450 ITX to ASRock B450 ITX (2400G)

[the-ephus]

Greetings! I'm just about ready to slam my head through the desk while trying to tune my 2400G. I recently switched motherboards from the ASUS B450 ITX to the ASRock as it has supposedly heartier VRMs for APU overclocking. I actually fried the Asus while trying for 1.2 Vsoc 1500 mhz on the GPU along with a really tight 3400 mhz RAM OC. I had done plenty of graphics benchmarks on the ASUS, and today started similar benchmarks with the ASRock. With identical tests and hardware the ASRock is performing WAY worse and I can't figure out why. This is a fresh Windows install with all relevant drivers and the BIOS fully updated.

Setup:
2400G
Raijintek Pallas cooler (temps haven't been above 60 in any test, so I'm assuming they're irrelevant)
ASRock B450 ITX
Team Dark Pro 2x8 3200 MHz C14 (TDPGD416G3200HC14ADC01) - Not on the QVL for ASRock, wasn't on ASUS either.
HP EX920 NVME

Below are my results for identical tests. I'll limit it to Cinebench for brevity, but I'm seeing similar results for Firestrike.

All stock settings:
Asus - 62.2 fps --- ASRock 58.6

Underclock/undervolt (3600 MHz, 1.175 Vcore)***
Asus - 70.9 --- ASRock 58.2

Underclock/undervolt and XMP enabled
Asus - 77.7 --- ASRock 63.8

I've stopped at this point out of frustration. In-game FPS is also significantly worse, though I don't have quality before and after data to list.

*** One thing that I noticed right off the bat is that the ASRock board refuses to hold the Vcore that is entered in the BIOS when undervolting. It usually sits about 75-100 mV higher under load no matter what. I can't get it to ever go below 1.185v, even when trying to set the CPU to 3500 MHz. Any ideas?

 

[trents]

Have you experimented with LLC or does the ASRock not have that setting? Many non "X" socket AM4 motherboards don't have an LLC adjustment and voltage droop is significant.

Is your overclock applied to all cores?

Can you attach captured images of CPU-z showing the values in tabs: "CPU," "Memory" and "SPD"? Crop and capture the pics with Windows Snip&Sketch and the attach them with buili-in forum tool accessible via the "Go Advanced" button.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

My B450M-A has LLC and I typically use extreme setting for constant current without v-droop.

I imagine the ROG B450 would LLC available.

 

[the-ephus]

I haven't found a LLC setting yet, but I'll take another look. I know that the Asus B450 had it, which I always left on 'Auto'.

I've attached the below HWMonitor to show that it's hitting 3.6 GHz with no problem under load. Incidentally, you can see the Vcore at 1.232V, when it's set at 1.175 in the BIOS. Thanks for your help.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Core performance boost enabled is why you see a higher voltage, it automatically raises with the boosting overclock.

 

[the-ephus]

Core performance boost enabled is why you see a higher voltage, it automatically raises with the boosting overclock.

Sorry, forgot to mention that CPB is disabled already, along with the Cool 'n' Quiet setting.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

So manual (static) overclocking?

Be sure c-states are disabled along with PBO, CPB and XFR.

You must also raise the frequency to 3625Mhz to eliminate SenseMi features such as voltage fluctuations.

My experience with W7 = Windows set to performance mode holds clocks, but voltage still drops to save power. I cannot turn this off, however at a full load will hold desired voltage. I must use extreme LLC to do so however.
With windows in Balanced mode does the opposite, will hold the voltage but will act upon the c-states if enabled dropping the core multiplier to save power.

In a nut shell, you are still and always partially bound by SenseMi technology as it was designed to save power. I personally run static overclocks with windows in performance mode and keep the clocks stable while voltage fluctuates.

To see what the P-states are for your processor, run system stock and load cpu-z. go to about tab and click save report TXT. open txt and view p-states copy paste here so I can compare them to what your speed and voltage is at.

 

[trents]

On my MSI board I found that with the latest bios if I left the LLC on Auto I got huge vdroop. With a little experimentation I settled on the next to the highest LLC level which is typical, I think.

But none of this explains why your scores are lower. I have no bright ideas here. You say you have all the latest drivers installed and that would normally be my first recommendation. You might contact ASRock tech and see if they have any suggestions.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

On my MSI board I found that with the latest bios if I left the LLC on Auto I got huge vdroop. With a little experimentation I settled on the next to the highest LLC level which is typical, I think.

But none of this explains why your scores are lower. I have no bright ideas here. You say you have all the latest drivers installed and that would normally be my first recommendation. You might contact ASRock tech and see if they have any suggestions.

I was thinking that he was running stock and the cpu was boosting on the asus board creating these better benchmark numbers, where now, he's running with boost off, but I could be mistaken if he wrote down all the configuration settings with the benchmarks.

Maybe the video card isn't boosting? IGP only?

I cannot run IGP with W7 with my Athlon 220GE. No driver support ;(

EDIT:

Also could have just hot swapped the HDD/SSD and run the same operating system, no fresh install required. The chipset drivers are likely the same.....

 

[the-ephus]

Thank you both for your help. In both cases, I set a static 3600 MHz and the best possible undervolt to keep temps down and allow more iGPU overclocking. Trying to keep the cooler quieter in my ITX case, anyway...

I know very little about p-states... Haven't ever messed with them in the past. Is this what you were looking for?

# of P-States 3
P-State FID 0x890 - VID 0x10 (36.00x - 1.450 V)
P-State FID 0xC8A - VID 0x5C (23.00x - 0.975 V)
P-State FID 0x1080 - VID 0x6C (16.00x - 0.875 V)

PStateReg 0x80000000-0x49040890
PStateReg 0x80000000-0x45D70C8A
PStateReg 0x80000000-0x441B1080
PStateReg 0x00000000-0x40160000
PStateReg 0x00000000-0x40160000
PStateReg 0x00000000-0x40160000
PStateReg 0x00000000-0x40160000
PStateReg 0x00000000-0x40160000

I'm also going to try for similar settings in Ryzen Master to see if that does anything, but I'm not really expecting anything different.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Did you set up system defaults and then pull the p-states?

1.450v is way way too high for only 3.6ghz. (should be closer to 1.215v *roughly*)
P-states will not show boost voltages, only stock P-state values. Which is kinda what we want. 1.450v is probably for the 3.9Ghz boost clocks.

I fully understand what you are trying to do now, thank you for the incite of exactly your goals here.



This is my 2700x while default in bios. My 220GE is not at default, I can do that later though. So the 220GE shows a P-state of 3.8ghz at 1.3v, but the cpu's max p-state only goes to 3.4ghz.
# of P-States 3
P-State FID 0x894 - VID 0x36 (37.00x - 1.212 V)
P-State FID 0x880 - VID 0x59 (32.00x - 0.994 V)
P-State FID 0xC84 - VID 0x76 (22.00x - 0.812 V)

you can use the above for reference if you are unable to default at this time.

 

[the-ephus]

Those are the p-state values with my BIOS default settings... Just double checked. You're right, that is way too high...

I do have a 200GE which I plugged in to confirm that the Asus mobo was dying/dead and not the 2400G. Not sure if that would help diagnostically at all.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

On my MSI board I found that with the latest bios if I left the LLC on Auto I got huge vdroop. With a little experimentation I settled on the next to the highest LLC level which is typical, I think.

Any issues at all with your MSI board? Specifically in the BIOS I guess. I've heard that it isn't the best?

If I can't get this ASRock straightened out, maybe I'll take it back and look in to the MSI one.

 

[trents]

There is a lot to like about my MSI board (the one in the Sig). The hardware itself is better than most in it's class and it is a true 6+2 phase count board so the VRM is stout. It also has very good compatibility with a wide range of memory products.

It is held back from fully realizing the benefits of that 6+2 phase count, however by the same factors that will limit any mini itx board and that is lack of real estate to put a heat sink on the VRM components north of the socket and a bigger heatsink on the west side VRM components.

My biggest complaint is about the bios. It's a little quirky at times, losing the CPU core multiplier setting. It shows correctly in bios but in Windows and by actual performance it is clear that it has reverted to default. This happens sometimes when I make other changes in bios so I have learned to retype the multiplier number even if it shows what I want before saving changes. That's just kind of an annoyance. The only real complaint I have is the fact that MSI chose to allow core voltage changes in .0125 increments - poor granularity. So you are forced to maybe use a little more vcore than you might need to be stable.

If you are thinking about changing boards, my advice to you is to go for an "X" chip board so as to be able to take advantage of things like PBO 2. The "X" boards are more likely to have more full-featured bioses I think as well.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Those are the p-state values with my BIOS default settings... Just double checked. You're right, that is way too high...

I do have a 200GE which I plugged in to confirm that the Asus mobo was dying/dead and not the 2400G. Not sure if that would help diagnostically at all.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -



Any issues at all with your MSI board? Specifically in the BIOS I guess. I've heard that it isn't the best?

If I can't get this ASRock straightened out, maybe I'll take it back and look in to the MSI one.

I also have a 200GE, doesn't clock as well as the 220. Also have a 1200 which is ok. All of which I've run and overclocked generously on my Asus B450.

You type dying/dead. What do you mean by this? Do you still have the board? Could I purchase it from you maybe? (last part for PM only...)

EDIT:

Haven't purchased MSI motherboards since AM2/+. Well my brothers actually. 3 RMAs later had a working board. After that, never bothered again.