Testing PBO and negative v-core offset with Zen+

[Hotrod2go]

I notice you have an early bios on that board, hasn't Asus updated them yet? have you run it lately with R20 of Cinebench?
From what I have read on R20, its more cpu intensive than R15.

The luck of the silicon lottery is really showing itself in this thread imo.
1.49 for 4.3GHz but on 2700X

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Love that.

The best efficiency made from this chip was 4ghz at 1.188v.
Past this frequency, volts go up. And my load temp was about 13.5c if I remember the testing.

The highest cpu-z validation is at 4500Mhz.

Believe my chip is high in leakage. If we where under LN2 comparisons, you may not have anything special in a silicon lottery...

Have you tested in the sub zero range? It looks like you have some chilling abilities there claiming silicon lotterys and such lol. please, your temps are 20c lower than everyone else's even on expensive AIOs.

 

[Hotrod2go]

Love that.

The best efficiency made from this chip was 4ghz at 1.188v.
Past this frequency, volts go up. And my load temp was about 13.5c if I remember the testing.

The highest cpu-z validation is at 4500Mhz.

Believe my chip is high in leakage. If we where under LN2 comparisons, you may not have anything special in a silicon lottery...

Have you tested in the sub zero range? It looks like you have some chilling abilities there claiming silicon lotterys and such lol. please, your temps are 20c lower than everyone else's even on expensive AIOs.

Can't test in sub zero environments as I do not get into LN2 adventures...lol.
I have the system in a BIG case with 4x140mm case fans, so that definitely helps & the MSI bios has all manner of Fan configs one could ever dream of running.
Every time I open the case I often think to myself 'heck, there is a LOT of room in here' & having a compact 175w TDP R9 Nano helps with the overall ambient temps inside that type of environment anyway.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

So the idle temp of 63 degree Fahrenheit indicates that the room temperature was then likely in the mid 50s Fahrenheit range assuming the Cpu creates some sort of heat even at low pstate and low voltage or idle would be some degree over room temp. So in reality, I don't buy the story on a Cooler Master MA620P. Maybe marginally better than a stock cooler???? It's ok, you don't have to say the room temp was that low, It's plain as day in the old screen shots you've posted!!

I did sub zero with a TEC. Not LN2. You can reach sub zero with a nice WC chiller set also. DryIce is pretty cheap thrill getcha some -75c or so..... I have not tested on LN2. I use it daily like yourself.... on a similar cooler type.

 

[Hotrod2go]

So the idle temp of 63 degree Fahrenheit indicates that the room temperature was then likely in the mid 50s Fahrenheit range assuming the Cpu creates some sort of heat even at low pstate and low voltage or idle would be some degree over room temp. So in reality, I don't buy the story on a Cooler Master MA620P. Maybe marginally better than a stock cooler???? It's ok, you don't have to say the room temp was that low, It's plain as day in the old screen shots you've posted!!

I did sub zero with a TEC. Not LN2. You can reach sub zero with a nice WC chiller set also. DryIce is pretty cheap thrill getcha some -75c or so..... I have not tested on LN2. I use it daily like yourself.... on a similar cooler type.

WE are built tough in Tasmania, room ambients of mid 50 F is nothing in our winters! my state is not like the mainland of Australia with its image of hot, sweaty & sunny climate...lol.. resilience is in our DNA!

I have a Cryorig R1 Ultimate air cooler + AM4 install kit ( carry over from my FX-8350 rig) I was going to install but the HS around the mosfets on my board have already severely challenged even installing the Cooler Master MA620P in the 1st place. Not to worry, that cooler is 'GINORMOUS' for an air cooler!

Also, I've noticed that the image in the OC community of HWinfo reliability in it's data gathering is suspect because it's regularly reporting my R9 Nano as running at 1,300MHz core speed, that is impossible when it's running at stock!
IF it gets a major component like that wrong, then can we be certain the rest of the data it submits is reliable as well?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well I'm actually not doubting any frequencies you announce, only the cooling. Because from my experience, I already know where the temps need to be to obtain certain clock speeds on a range of processors from Gen 1 and 2.

The PBO never really turned me on or impressed me much. There used to be a lot of honesty concerning the use of PBO. So people would enjoy a nice high clock speed and as their temps got higher and higher the CPU would start throttling, yes still over a base clock like the 2700X at 3.7ghz anything above is a boost even if it's just 3.8ghz.
After that I experienced a different type of issue with communication where a solid boost clock sustained is and considered a base clock but all of every one's base clocks are then vastly different from system to system, or perhaps that sustained boost clock whether it reaches or not advertised speeds is considered a base clock or stock frequency.
In reality it's a boost frequency range opposed to say it's a base clock.

Now if the OP is onto something with PBO/CPB settings I can get interested in the topic.

additional comment.

I cannot speak for HWInfo64. I have the program (not trial version) and it does sometimes act funny here and there. I think nothing of it. Most of it is not needed for anything. I need to know frequency, voltage and temp. And that puts me right where I need to be. I can care less the wattage usage if I'm not Folding at Home.

 

[Hotrod2go]

Weather or not I have 'lowish' ambient temps in the room when benching or testing is not really the point. Fact of the matter is, as it is with any OCer, is what they can do with the hardware & resources they have access too.

I'll admit, I'm very fussy about how I setup the CPU coolers on my rigs when installing them. I make no apology for that, the results I get on a daily basis & comparing them to the rest of the global overclocking community is indicating I"m doing a pretty good job.

But I agree with you about PBO, it is a form of auto overclocking that I think if for set & forget kind of performance boosting. Lately investigating manual OCing has been more rewarding in term of what I do with my gaming rig, that is, to get every possible FPS out of it for the style of games that attract me.

However I think we are getting a bit off topic with this issue of temps & Overclocking. Back to the topic at hand.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Don't think temps and voltage are far off while the CPB and such rely on these variables.

What I had posted yesterday was to exemplify a low or lower volting issue that I had noticed and was curious on the effects that it had while using PBO. Only did I ever see the FSB droop when in manual configuration and that the OP using a negative offset actually increased performance slightly but he gained the most out of a memory overclock.
Manually OC because I'm old school. I'd rather the CPU do what I tell it over it doing what it wants to do. In some cases automatic is better, in others it's not.

Deciding when and where to use the SenseMi features (CPB/PBO/XFR) is where I happen to struggle the most. So far, I seldom use it.

Now, doing F@H I need the best efficiency from my cpu as watts are used for completing work units and then my electric bill goes up. So there have been times where I folded and had a low clock speed. 3.3ghz-3.5ghz 1.150v give or take and no boosting. I try to aim between 60 and 80 watts at a full load. Just depends on how I feel that day I guess. Using PBO for this type of adventure is pointless.

Gaming performance.... the FPS is high enough in the games I play that struggling for more was a thing of the past. Figure going from an FX chip to a Ryzen chip just made a huge world of difference. My GTX 770 no longer had a bottle neck and then when I got the 980, it was another world of difference. The most intense game I play is CODBO4.

 

[Zerileous]

...
How do you know negative vcore offset is broken on my board? there was no vcore offset from MSI with this board until recent bios updates.
...

Sorry I left out a few words before. I meant to say "has been broken on MSI boards." You can tell me if it's fixed if you want to check load voltages with a repeatable load (i.e. Prime95). I've seen that it's been added to boards since 2018, but not that it's worked. That said I'm not an expert on MSI bios.

All of this said, you didn't answer how your determination of "no difference" was made. I will also note that in the big picture, the amount of difference (double digit changes to CinebenchR20 scores) I'm detecting is mostly academic. It's also important to say that this is one benchmark. For example the way memory speed works with the Infinity Fabric in Zen, Zen+, and for the most part Zen2 (although an infinity fabric divider is now available for the latter) has the likelihood of having a bigger impact on other things. Maybe even the single core CBR20 since it seems to utilize all the cores at different times. A load where each thread gets assigned a render and then completes that render and then gets a new render assigned to it is the ideal picture for infinity fabric already, as cores are not sharing a lot of data (at least this is my inference by watching the test). I just don't want anyone to read this and think memory speed matters less (or more) than it does.

I'm still not sure if we're fully talking about the same thing in terms of an "all core boost." Any time I open a monitoring program it also reports at each of my cores has boosted to the maximum value of 4250MHz. When we are discussing an "all core boost," we're referring to a simultaneous all core boost, have you seen all the cores hit this clock at the same time under stress test or other load to all cores? It's nothing for them to boost to max if they are essentially at idle.

As for your manual OC, it looks nice, and it appears to be an appropriate reward for your ambient temps. I'd be freezin' my butt off! If my CPU would hit a manual OC that was higher than the "all core boost" from PBO at 1.4V or less, then I would OC manually. I agree it's more fun, its certainly easier lol. Either my memory is impaired or something else has changed, because I seem to remember pegging 4150MHz running prime95 when I first set the system up. Now I'm sitting between 4000MHz and 4025Mhz running small FFTs. In a day or two I'll come up and manually OC and run CBR20. I don't want to claim the 4150MHz because again my memory is missing out.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Set my PBO to 2x scaler, it will show idle cores (most all) at 4250Mhz. IT's a lie! Under a load, it's lower near 4.1ghz. Still testing, but that's about where it's at now.

Does yours act the same way Zerileous??

 

[Zerileous]

Yeah exactly the same, between 4.0 and 4.1. My bios only has "performance" or "power" for scalar modes. I've always assumed "power" meant power saving, but maybe it means, godlike power, ultimate power, or maximum power. I should try it out. It doesn't have the 1x-10x modes others have.