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ThermoEngine: A disturbing change in direction

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There is a company in the UK that claims the following:

'With unique and patented technology, ThermoSonic Technology successfully revolutionized heat sink material, of which the conductivity and heat-dissipation efficiency were much superior than the others ¡V this sets a new industry record in thermal technology. Using Heat Pipe Technology within the Heat Sink using a secret material and the Delta ball bearing fan running @ 5100rpm.
This is the "Coolest" Cooler!'

Here is the Web-Page address: http://www.scan.co.uk/today.htm

What do you all think?
Ben
 
AbRASiON (May 02, 2001 02:14 a.m.):

Red_eye 30CFM fan = ?
Is that a 7200 rpm like the one Kyle used in his review, because if that's the case as you can see from his roundup - you obviously wont get similar results, BUT you should get damned good results, or so his benchmarks show.

Have you weighed your unit and or checked if it has the stamp on top?

- Scott

Scott,

The 30CFM fan is a Delta unit, but its not 'the' delta the other reviewers are using. This spins at around 5900-6000 RPM as reported by MBM 5. Yes the heatsink has the stamp, but no I havent popped it on my postage scale to check the weight yet. I may give that a shot tonight.

I'm happy with the reults from mine, I would just like to find out if it is indeed always the case that a stamped model is drilled. I guess weighing or drilling are my only option. I'll let folks know after I get home tonight and check it out.
 
Duck Hook (May 02, 2001 01:35 a.m.):
If you are able to drill a hole of similar proportions, shouldn't you be able to achieve similar temps?

I just ordered a ThermoEngine 2 days ago, just before all the scam stuff broke, and am pretty pissed. My purchased was based largely on the superb review from HardOCP. If they knew about it, why didn't they say something.

If you go into the news archive there I cna find mention of the new thermo engine as far back as April 14th. Here is a quote

The ThermoEngine gets the once over at RipNet. It seems that Thermosonic has changed the build of their ThermoEngine coolers like the one shown in our review. We are waiting for one of the new ones to show up so we can test it against the old style to see if there is any difference.

I seem to recall on several more reviews that Kyle mentioned the revison as well.
 
Red_Eye,

The change noted in the RipNet review review referenced by Kyle was that the seam for the hollow core was now on the top of the unit rather than the bottom. Their test unit STILL had the hollow core.

Nevin
 
It should be noted that on thermoEngine site: http://www.thermosonic.com.tw/cd/ow...plate_id=3&prod_id=8810298532&enable_button=1
the weight is posted at 258.6g. So my guess is that it was originally meant to be solid, they just sent out hollow cores to get good review ratings. It's still fraudulent, and if not legally liable (I bet they would be after a few cores burn up) at least the public will never trust them again and they might go out of business eventually...
 
I got my thermoengine in early april and its been fine.. my OCed 800@1001gives me 26C idle and 35c max load.... but I do have a delta and an external cool air intake that channels only outside air onto the HS... I probably got one of the first few because when I bought it, there weren't much reviews about it... its probably one of the chamber versions.. I'll drill out the cap and see this weekend...
 
Please, PLEASE do not drill out your ThermoEngine if you suspect it has the hollow core, IE printing on the top with some form of cap (look closely). If the cavity is evacuated, you will lose the vacuum and perhaps some performance. Wait and see what transpires from all this attention, or weigh it, but don't drill it out!

Hoot
 
To reinforce what Hoot said...

If your ThermoEngine has the 'cap' with the black circle and writing, then it definitely has the hollow core. Solid units are 'capless' and have no black circle or writing under the fan and clip.

There is no reason to drill anything to determine which version you have.

The weights with the stock fans and shrouds are:

Hollow: Approximately 225 grams

Solid: Approximately 245 grams

Nevin
 
I stand by my original assessment that the hollow chamber was intended to "steer" the thermal current up the walls.

Hoot

But the chamber does not "steer" the thermal current anyware, it blocks it. Heat flux is a directly proportional to the cross sectional area of the medium through which the conduction takes place. By cutting off part of the flow paths, the hollow chamber prevents heat flux from the cpu to the walls, regardless the shape of the sink.

I'm not trying to deny facts: the sink with the hollow core appears to indeed work better. I'm questioning the physics of the effect. My best guess is that the something else than just the structure of the core must have changed in the Thermoengine to explain the results. Maybe they changed also the material when they changed the tooling method. Just guessing...

The moral of the story: Don't drill your solid-core Thermoengines. You'll end up with an even worse sink.
 
T. Random (May 02, 2001 02:51 p.m.):

I'm not trying to deny facts: the sink with the hollow core appears to indeed work better. I'm questioning the physics of the effect. My best guess is that the something else than just the structure of the core must have changed in the Thermoengine to explain the results. Maybe they changed also the material when they changed the tooling method. Just guessing...

The moral of the story: Don't drill your solid-core Thermoengines. You'll end up with an even worse sink.

I disagree with you. Heat is evacuated from the Thermoengine by cooler air passing by the radial fins (pushed by a fan).

Thermal energy moves from an area of greater energy to an area of lesser energy towards a state of equilibrium. If we assume that the CPU is always hotter than the heat sink (easy assumption), then we can expect the heat to travel from the cpu to the bottom of the sink. From there, it moves from the bottom of the sink throughout the sink, eventually being exported via cool air flow at the fins.

If you compare a Thermoengine that is hollow versus a thermal engine that is solid, the following will be true: the same amount of heat energy will have less heatsink volume in which to accumulate. Therefore, the hollow sink, given the same input energy, will be hotter at the fins than a solid one, because a solid one has more volume to "soak up the heat". However, the only place where there is active export of heat is at the fins. The more heat that is transferred to the fins, the more effective the sink is at exporting heat.

The hollow core does not magically "pipe" heat away. Calling it a heat pipe is a serious misnomer. However, air is very poor at holding heat. A vaccuum is incapable of holding heat. The hollow chamber's main point is merely to NOT HOLD HEAT.

An ideal fansink would:
A) maximize contact area with the cpu (limited by cpu size in most modern sinks, and aided by thermal paste such as arctic silver)
B) Have as high an export area to heat holding volume ratio as possible. (fanned fin area/volume).
C) Push as much air volume across the export area as possible.

A hollow thermoengine is more ideal because of point B, and therefore, should be more efficient.

Neil
 
Neil-

If that were the case then simply drilling a hole in the solid version should yield similar temps. And perhaps drilling a bigger hole, should yield even lower temps.

Somehow I don't think the resolution is that simple.

Now that my ThermoEngine is one the way, I'm wondering if I should even bother putting it on and risk chipping my CPU. I hear the ThermoEngine comes in a petty nice looking box and maybe I'll just put it on my desktop to look at.

I'm sure glad all my computer stuff is a business expense so it's only costing me half of what it really does LOL.
 
Duck Hook (May 02, 2001 04:31 p.m.):
Neil-

If that were the case then simply drilling a hole in the solid version should yield similar temps. And perhaps drilling a bigger hole, should yield even lower temps.

Somehow I don't think the resolution is that simple.

I actually believe it IS that simple. Keep in mind: do not drill all the way through, because you will lose vital contact area. Other than that, any heatsink with large areas of solid space would be made more efficient if they were reduced in size.

Tell you what. I have one coming. I'm sure it'll be solid. I'll see for myself if it makes a difference.

Neil
 
Thanks Neil, then I can leave mine in the box and wait until you let us know if this experiment works.
 
ThermoEngine: Drilled Holes

OK, I drilled the holes as I stated before. Three 1/4 inch diameter holes extending from top to bottom. They stop about 1/4Inch from the bottom. I installed the ThermoEngine and my idle temp is 39 to 40 C.

At load its 43 to 45.

More to follow.
 
Nevin (May 02, 2001 12:22 p.m.):
To reinforce what Hoot said...

If your ThermoEngine has the 'cap' with the black circle and writing, then it definitely has the hollow core. Solid units are 'capless' and have no black circle or writing under the fan and clip.

<<<


I don't know about a cap but mine has the words thermoengine written on the top but it doesn't have a black circle.. its kinda golden... there are two concentric circles...

I'd tried knocking with the end of the a small screwdriver and it does sound different from when I'm knocking the other end.. sounds as though the top isn't metal... I guess its probably hollow... probably explains why my temps are as such.. my max temp with the stock fan was 46c under load and 40 with a 26 cfm ys-tech and now 38c with a 37cfm delta... my idle temp is strange though.. I get 25.5 for the MB and 26.7 for the CPU.. I thought maybe this was because the delta was blowing all the cold air around the sides of the core and platter but now I have a shim there, its the same...
 
ThermoEngine: Drilled Holes

Alright last dance for this thing. I ran one default run of 3D Mark 2000 and the temp hit 47C. It's in the can with tomorrows trash.

Paladin06 (May 02, 2001 07:46 p.m.):
OK, I drilled the holes as I stated before. Three 1/4 inch diameter holes extending from top to bottom. They stop about 1/4Inch from the bottom. I installed the ThermoEngine and my idle temp is 39 to 40 C.

At load its 43 to 45.

More to follow.
 
Well.. guess what... IT F*#@IN SOLID!! No plug in it! There is also a number on the heatsink... 010305-A-01 for those who might need to know that.

CRAP, IVE BEEN RAPED!! Wonder who I should hang first for this....

what I posted yesterday is below...

fostersupc (May 01, 2001 05:44 p.m.):
Now I just got a ThermoEngine V60-4210 with a 34 CFM fan last week. I order it from www.coolerstar.com on April 19. So this a paid for item, I didn't get it for free. Running a Celeron 566 @ 850 in a Abit VH6-II. CPU temp right now is 41 C with voltage @ 1.85 and using Arctic Silver II. Seems to be normal from the sites that have any infomation on the temps for this heatsink. I'll be more than happy to let you know anything more about it, just email me.
 
I really appreciate overclockers.com bringing this bait and switch scheme to our attention. I don't quite understand the apparent animosity towards
[H]ardOC, but then I don't hang out there. I have read and appreciated a lot of reviews at their site but prefer the style of Overclockers.com. Seems to me the only bad guy here is the manufacturer. Overclocking hardware suppliers can ill afford to eat these late model inferior units. They should however label them as solid core or hollow,if any are left. If the manufacturer refuses to take the solid cores back maybe the resellers can pursue an international joint lawsuit. Review sites should follow OC.com's lead and warn consumers of this sham.
Also, perhaps some enterprizing person could duplicate with improvements the original heatsink. Lord knows the a**holes deserve to have their market snatched away from them.
 
I doubt we're going to see a wholesale recall or exchange program. So, if you have a solid core and it is really bothering you, channel that energy in a positive direction. If you own or have access to a drill press and drilling vise. Center punch the top of the unit. Drill it out with a 1/2 inch drill bit down 1-1/4 inches. This will have a minor impact on how the clip seats on the top. If you don't like that, tap the first 1/4 inch or so down (9/16 tap) of that hole and put a bolt with the head removed (for a flush surface) in it. Voila!

Hoot
 
Can anyone tell me what this means? I know nothing of the laws of thermodynamics... Just bought a capless, stampless, Thermoengine - would like to know what the deal is.

(Got this off [H]ard|OCP)

Thanks!
 
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