Thoughts on Piracy, DRM, Collector Editions, and Gaming heritage.

[BenF]

I don't like virtual property OR virtual money because you're only a computer glitch or server error away from getting screwed-over HARD.

And if this happens you can't get any help because computers never make mistakes .


I personally like steam and think its a good solution to the problem. Its extremely easy for the consumer to user, the prices are good, and there isn't some stupid drm messing up your game experience. I don't really like having everything online just because of the risk of losing it all but I still use (and like) steam because of the convenience. As for DRM, I need to agree with Aynjell. Something is seriously wrong when the pirated copy of the game is more user friendly than the legit version because of the drm. To me that seems like the game developers and publishers want more and more piracy. DRM is supposed to stop piracy (which is never will do and never could do) but I'd be willing to bet it has increased piracy.

 

[SteveLord]

I am a fan of Steam...for reasons BenF mentioned. Also, if you do get hacked...Steam support typically takes care of customers within 3-5 business days from what I've seen (and experienced helping my brother with his account.)

 

[DaveHCYJ]

There's the another side to that idea. If there's lots of competition, then you have a bunch of incompatible services, all of which are trying to gain each other's market share. What happens to the users of the services that don't make it?

An arguement for competition would be: if there are lots of companies competing, hopefully the one with the most user friendly service will win out and in that way users get the least intrusive drm system. Or if there isn't one winner (as there usually isn't in most markets), then competing companies are forced to constantly inovate and create better products.

fyi even in the case of a company going out of buisness that you may have "invested" in through the purchase of games -- I believe one of the exceptions to the DCMA is that you are legally allowd to break DRM in order to make the thing you legally own operable again.

 

[BenF]

I am a fan of Steam...for reasons BenF mentioned. Also, if you do get hacked...Steam support typically takes care of customers within 3-5 business days from what I've seen (and experienced helping my brother with his account.)

I don't think that they will lift a VAC ban though. If my steam account got hacked and the hacker got me VAC banned before I regained control of the account I would just abandon it. I don't really play any single player games and being unable to play my multiplayer games, the account would be worthless to me.

 

[adriantrances]

Personally, I think any kind of optical media is facing extinction in the near future.

Agreed. Unfortunately Steam still feels to charge you the same price for a digital download as a retail box with CD and all other goodies.

 

[cornbread]

Personally, I think any kind of optical media is facing extinction in the near future.

My thoughts exactly.

We are already seeing all types of media being streamed, from movies, tv, music and games. I'm guessing this will be the norm eventually because companies can "somewhat" control piracy a little more.

 

[petteyg359]

Agreed. Unfortunately Steam still feels to charge you the same price for a digital download as a retail box with CD and all other goodies.

Yeah, sure. Show me the last time Best Buy threw out a 75% weekend discount on any big title. Where's your $5 retail box Bioshock, and $6.79 retail boxed L4D and L4D2?

 

[DarkVirusVx]

I think what rainless is saying is that even if you do back up the games, if someone hacks your account and purposely gets you banned or changes your PW you are still screwed since you need a steam account with the games linked to it in order for them to work whether you have back ups or not.

And this is why I will not use stream again. I bought HL2 from best buy registered it beat it had a great time. It came with some older games that had online game play. I started to play and people kept saying I was glitching and cheating. I didn't even know how to play let alone cheat. I had a temp banned when I tried to long in the next day and a premabanned when that ended.

Sure I could write or call but really my money can go to other places. I really don't have the time I used to for games any more so I choose my games wisely.

 

[SteveLord]

Yeah, sure. Show me the last time Best Buy threw out a 75% weekend discount on any big title. Where's your $5 retail box Bioshock, and $6.79 retail boxed L4D and L4D2?

Agreed. Not to mention, the PC Game sections get smaller every year at places like Best Buy and Gamestop.

 

[rainless]

And if this happens you can't get any help because computers never make mistakes .

That's the whole entire problem. Once you're deemed a "hacker" or a "cheater" or whatever the hell a computer pops you up as... that's it.

You can kiss all that stuff goodbye.

You can try emailing Valve if you want to... I know a handful of people over the past 8 years that have gotten their accounts back... but in all honesty goodluck.

 

[Adragontattoo]

Depending on the game and my enthusiasm about it, I debate buying the collector editions. Hell i just bought the Fallout3 collectors edition on Tuesday. I wanted the bobblehead, the lunchbox I am meh about and the other stuff might be cool. I already own Fallout 3 anyways so I ended up with an extra copy.

I prefer hardcopy of media (books, mags, games, movies) anyways, music I have long since gotten away from buying and I typically only buy used movies anymore.

 

[DaveHCYJ]

Personally, I think any kind of optical media is facing extinction in the near future.

While games may decline in their availability on optical media it definitely isn't going away, at least not in the next 5-10 years.

Optical media is too important as a means of distributing movies. Yes steaming/downloads can readily replace dvds/cds, but not a single streaming service provides bluray quality. Its kind of hard to imagine something disappearing if there isn't even a replacement for it. Additionally even if steaming is able to handle bluray quality in the next 5 years or so, by then the 4k x 2k format is going to be taking off and a new optical format is going to have to come out with higher storage capacity.

Keep in mind also that the overclockers.com community does not really represent the masses that well. Not everyone is so quick to go out and get the latest gadgets. And not everyone makes all their purchase decisions on the internet. As long as optical media exists (for other reasons like high capacity backup and movies), games will be released on optical... Companies have a strategic reason for releasing on optical -- if you can't put a box in the store then people won't make impulse buys.

The pace at which new ways of making purchases happens is pretty quick, the pace at which old formats die is not so quick. CDs have been around for 25 years and mp3 players have been around for 10, yet I can still go to the store and buy a CD. DVDs have been around for 15 years and streaming and blurays have been around for 5 yet DVDs are still the predominant format.

 

[petteyg359]

That's the whole entire problem. Once you're deemed a "hacker" or a "cheater" or whatever the hell a computer pops you up as... that's it.

The nice part is that a computer, not a person, decides you're cheating.

I started to play and people kept saying I was glitching and cheating. I didn't even know how to play let alone cheat. I had a temp banned when I tried to long in the next day and a premabanned when that ended.

VAC doesn't ban because people thought you were hacking. VAC bans because it detects programs running that modify the game to provide an advantage to you. AFAIK, there's no such thing as a "temporary" VAC ban. It sounds like you were only banned from a single server, in which case hating Valve and Steam makes no sense.

 

[Leviathan41]

Agreed. Unfortunately Steam still feels to charge you the same price for a digital download as a retail box with CD and all other goodies.

Just to be clear, Valve doesn't set the prices or release time/day of third party games on their Steam service. The publisher sets those prices and is typically forced to set the price at the same price as retail, due to deals the publisher has with the retail stores.

And this is why I will not use stream again. I bought HL2 from best buy registered it beat it had a great time. It came with some older games that had online game play. I started to play and people kept saying I was glitching and cheating. I didn't even know how to play let alone cheat. I had a temp banned when I tried to long in the next day and a premabanned when that ended.

Sure I could write or call but really my money can go to other places. I really don't have the time I used to for games any more so I choose my games wisely.

As pettey said, it sounds like you just ran into a bad server and got banned from the server, not VAC banned by Valve. You should be able to play on any other server besides that one.

 

[organicpuzzle]

Let me tell you a story:

The typical CD in Russia and China is a collection of MP3s... Possibly every song that the particular artist has ever made along with rare/poster-sized photos, and lyrics, and interviews, and videos.

It's stunningly impressive actually. In terms of not only the content, but the packaging and the overall presentation.

That's a very interesting and brilliant concept, and I think it applies on a similar level with gamers. Everybody listens to music, but there is a much smaller demographic that actually collects and appreciates it. The same is true with video games. There will always be millions of kids buying games with mom at GameStop, and college kids playing Halo, but there is a much smaller group of gamers who actually appreciate it.

Personally I think most CE releases are overpriced and lacking in content, but I can absolutely appreciate their appeal. I think if more distributors packaged interesting content with releases, it would be a help provoke some interest in not only the game, but the creator and distributor.

I have mixed feelings about digital distributors like Steam. It's great how it brings a whole community together on a game that would otherwise fall through the cracks. Especially when it comes to online multiplayer. I like the idea of having access to all your games via an online account, but at the same time I like to collect the box. I would like to buy the box and access a digital copy. Steam has done it with a few games, but the selection is very limited. Blizzard has done this with all their games. You can buy the game in the store and register the CD key with your Blizzard account. Maybe soon they will start giving a digital copy with all games in a CE along with other content. I would buy that in a heart beat.

When I think of video game piracy, I think of PC games. Console games are being pirated, but it's much harder to accomplish, and easier to control. I think really the only way to really slow down piracy is to have meaningful online content, not just DLC. I don't like DLC, but that's another topic. What I mean by "meaningful online content" is some form of multiplayer, or online collaboration of some kind. I know this isn't built into every game, but it can be on some level.

This thread has been a good read, thanks guys.

 

[Gren]

The key to stopping piracy is to offer a superior product than the "extended demo". Valve has accomplished that with Steam at this point. All your games are in one location, you can access them on multiple PCs, patches and updates are completely painless and you can uninstall and re-install without the disc. Plus you have access to a huge community within the Steam network. Sure it's a form of DRM, but if it provides so many benefits, I don't mind.

 

[Peeved Kitten]

After buying FFXIV and being horrifically disappointed I'm pretty sure I won't be buying any game I can't get in a download anymore. Excluding of course console games.

I don't pirate games. I usually play a demo and If I like it I buy it. I have run a crack or something for a few days when I couldn't afford the game, but If that happens I ALWAYS buy it.

A company I used to work with was caught pirating software and the ensuing case shut them down overnight pretty much. With so much that can be at risk by pirating or anything like that it is just not worth it. I still haven't jailbroken my iPad or iPhone, no real need at this point.

I think any company that doesn't have a demo for people to try is begging for problems. I try all the demo's I can get my hands on, however I am NOT willing shell out 50-60$ to try something with no demo. I have a few good reviewer's I follow that have very similar tastes and that helps, but one or two bad eggs at $50-60 apiece is enough to **** off anyone.

As far as optical media goes and why I don't personally use it, I don't even have a CD drive on my machine. Everything is installed via USB drives now.


I've had experience with the "one glitch and you're SOL" issue. I prefer to use Direct2Drive over steam, but I do use both. My MW2 game was basically invalidated by steam expansions and all. I sent an email to D2D and they fixed the issue within 24 hours and gave me a $20 coupon to use at their store. I could not have been happier with their support.

On the flipside, if you're scared of losing digital purchases to a glitch try this:
Create a new email account (gmail, yahoo, aol whatever) Use this email only for receipts.
Any time you buy an online game take an SS of the receipt and email it to your receipt email.

Now you have a full inventory of all of your games with receipts that you can access anywhere. This has NEVER failed me, as far as in game hacking goes I'm very against it.

However, I am all for botting when it comes to ridiculous grinds. After working an 8 or 16 hour day I just don't have the time to play and build characters. I don't feel that because kid X has no life/obligations he should get an instant advantage. I don't bot to level, but I occasionally will run a script to fish or create items that would normally suck hours of my time down a hole for very little. Besides, It's a ton of fun to set your character up to fish all day right before you go fishing all day...

 

[TheGreySpectre]

One thing I have seen change over the years is the shift from Expansions to DLC. MMOs still get expansions, but everything else gets DLC. Now I suppose in theory there really is not that much different as DLC is just a small scale expansion, but at least for me therin lies the problem. Once I have beat a game, I can't motivate myself to open it back up for a very small chunk of content like most DLC is. The 5 hours of gameplay that most expansion provided however provided me plenty of motifvation and new story to explore...then again we are coming on an era where many games are only 5 hours long in the first place.

 

[SMOKEU]

I agree

Not when your broadband has a data cap on it. Downloading large games costs a small fortune in bandwidth.

 

[petteyg359]

Not when your broadband has a data cap on it. Downloading large games costs a small fortune in bandwidth.

See linked graphs: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/14/1335235/Comcast-Accused-of-Congestion-By-Choice
I'm sure this is true of other ISPs, including yours