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Watercooling -Help me build my system!

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pamantea

Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Hey guys, here is my system right now:
Corsair 600T case
OCZ modxstream 600Watt PSU
Asus Sabertooth Motherboard
i7 950 CPU
Noctua U12P cooler
G.Skill F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ 6GB DDR3 3X2GB DDR3-1600 CL 9-9-9-24
EVGA GTX 580
WD 500gig HD Sata3
Crucial 64gb Sata3 (for OS)

I want to Overclock and everything I read seems to say its hard to do in this system. My goals are to keep things quiet and to be able to overclock the CPU a bit higher. It is at 3.8 right now, and would like 4.2. The GTX 580, I dont care to OC yet because I only run 1080 resolution and it will run everything now. I was first looking at the EK 240 kit, but was told it wont fit. I am a complete newbie. Right now my load temps on the CPU with the noctua cooler with prime on after an hour is about 80 Celcius. Thanks!
 
You're going to need to do some research. Look at the sticky's at the top of the page as they contain a ton of information. Here's a basic run down to planning your system....

Decide what you want to cool. It sounds like you want a CPU and a GPU, so you'll need to determine how many watts of heat those chips are going to put out. I don't have the links handy with me right now, but somebody will chime in here soon I'm sure and point to you where to find out that exact information. For preliminary planning purposes you could probably go with something like 200 watts for an overclocked i7 900 and 300 for a GTX 580.

Then you should research some fans because you have to know what fan speed you can tolerate before you can select radiators. You can look at some fan reviews done by Martin here and here. Have a look at those fan reviews and identify some fans you might be interested in. Then either look at the videos provided by Martin or check out this guys youtube channel. He's got video of a lot of fans running from dead stop to full speed, so you'll know how loud they'll be under a fan controller or full speed. This is not a perfect way to determine tolerance because often times fans are louder in videos than they are enclosed in your case, but it will certainly give you an idea.

Once you know how much heat you need to cool and how much fan speed you can deal with it's pretty simple to determine the best radiator for you and how much of it you'll need. Go to Skinnee's Lab and Martin's Liquid Lab and read some radiator reviews. If you find the radiator sections there will be radiator comparisons for a given size. Look at those reviews and there should be graphs that show watts of heat dissipated on the Y axis and fan speed on the X axis. The graph will either have multiple lines on it for different radiators at a given temp delta, or it will have multiple lines on it for various temp deltas on the same radiator. Find your identified fan speed and find the best radiator for you. If there's several that are comparable go for looks or price or find individual reviews about build quality, etc. Radiator cooling capability is proportional to size, so there's a couple ways to derive cooling capability for any radiator of the same family that is in the review. For example, find the area of the radiator (240x120mm=28800 mm^2) and divide the watts cooled by the area (300 watts/28800 mm^2 =0.0104 watts dissipated per mm^2). You now know how many watts dissipated per mm^2, so you can determine how many square millimeters it takes to cool your heat load. For 500 watts it would be 500/0.0104 = 48706 mm^2 required with that particular radiator model. Then you just divide that by the fan size you want to use. For 120mm fans it would be 48706 mm^2/120mm = 405 mm. This would mean for this particular setup you'd want a 420mm radiator of that model because an ideal size would be 405 but 420 is as close as you can get. This is a purely hypothetical example. Another quick way to know how much a radiator can cool is just multiply by the size factor. For example, a 360 is 1.5 times the size of a 240 so just multiply the 240 cooling capability by 1.5 and that's your 360 cooling capability for same series radiators.

For the case, you're going to struggle with that case. I'm guessing it's going to have to be mostly external. Search the internet for build logs of water cooled systems with your particular case and see if anyone has been able to do much with it, but this may be a source of struggle. Mid towers just aren't made for internal water cooling. Full towers aren't made very well for it for that matter. Super towers are starting to fit pretty big systems inside.

That gives you plenty of research to do now. Read the sticky's on the front page to get a basic idea of water cooling. Then go through the steps I've outline above to help you select your radiator/fan set up. You can decide pump, fittings, tubing, res, etc. later because those choices are based mostly on preference and not so much how you want the system to perform. I.e. you're going to choose the same of those pieces whether you build a high speed fan high fpi radiator set up or low speed fan low fpi radiator set up.
 
You're going to need to do some research. Look at the sticky's at the top of the page as they contain a ton of information. Here's a basic run down to planning your system....

Decide what you want to cool. It sounds like you want a CPU and a GPU, so you'll need to determine how many watts of heat those chips are going to put out. I don't have the links handy with me right now, but somebody will chime in here soon I'm sure and point to you where to find out that exact information. For preliminary planning purposes you could probably go with something like 200 watts for an overclocked i7 900 and 300 for a GTX 580.

Then you should research some fans because you have to know what fan speed you can tolerate before you can select radiators. You can look at some fan reviews done by Martin here and here. Have a look at those fan reviews and identify some fans you might be interested in. Then either look at the videos provided by Martin or check out this guys youtube channel. He's got video of a lot of fans running from dead stop to full speed, so you'll know how loud they'll be under a fan controller or full speed. This is not a perfect way to determine tolerance because often times fans are louder in videos than they are enclosed in your case, but it will certainly give you an idea.

Once you know how much heat you need to cool and how much fan speed you can deal with it's pretty simple to determine the best radiator for you and how much of it you'll need. Go to Skinnee's Lab and Martin's Liquid Lab and read some radiator reviews. If you find the radiator sections there will be radiator comparisons for a given size. Look at those reviews and there should be graphs that show watts of heat dissipated on the Y axis and fan speed on the X axis. The graph will either have multiple lines on it for different radiators at a given temp delta, or it will have multiple lines on it for various temp deltas on the same radiator. Find your identified fan speed and find the best radiator for you. If there's several that are comparable go for looks or price or find individual reviews about build quality, etc. Radiator cooling capability is proportional to size, so there's a couple ways to derive cooling capability for any radiator of the same family that is in the review. For example, find the area of the radiator (240x120mm=28800 mm^2) and divide the watts cooled by the area (300 watts/28800 mm^2 =0.0104 watts dissipated per mm^2). You now know how many watts dissipated per mm^2, so you can determine how many square millimeters it takes to cool your heat load. For 500 watts it would be 500/0.0104 = 48706 mm^2 required with that particular radiator model. Then you just divide that by the fan size you want to use. For 120mm fans it would be 48706 mm^2/120mm = 405 mm. This would mean for this particular setup you'd want a 420mm radiator of that model because an ideal size would be 405 but 420 is as close as you can get. This is a purely hypothetical example. Another quick way to know how much a radiator can cool is just multiply by the size factor. For example, a 360 is 1.5 times the size of a 240 so just multiply the 240 cooling capability by 1.5 and that's your 360 cooling capability for same series radiators.

For the case, you're going to struggle with that case. I'm guessing it's going to have to be mostly external. Search the internet for build logs of water cooled systems with your particular case and see if anyone has been able to do much with it, but this may be a source of struggle. Mid towers just aren't made for internal water cooling. Full towers aren't made very well for it for that matter. Super towers are starting to fit pretty big systems inside.

That gives you plenty of research to do now. Read the sticky's on the front page to get a basic idea of water cooling. Then go through the steps I've outline above to help you select your radiator/fan set up. You can decide pump, fittings, tubing, res, etc. later because those choices are based mostly on preference and not so much how you want the system to perform. I.e. you're going to choose the same of those pieces whether you build a high speed fan high fpi radiator set up or low speed fan low fpi radiator set up.


Wow! I truly appreciate the response. I have now pulled up some websites and am looking at build logs. One person has a 200 up front and a 240 up top. I am after silence however. I am starting to think that this won't necessarily be more quiet that what I have now? I shall continue to read :)
 
200mm radiators are probably not recommended mainly because there are no good 200mm fans for radiators. You'll probably want to stick with 120mm fans or 140mm fans. It takes static pressure to push air through a radiator and the larger the fan usually the less the static pressure unless it's made particularly for it. Most 200mm fans are low speed and don't have that many fins so they would be very poor for radiators. Pressure can escape between fins, so the larger the fan the more fins it should have to maintain good static pressure. Some people even question the quality of the 140mm fans that are available right now for radiators, but I think most would agree they're ok to use for radiators.
 
200mm radiators are probably not recommended mainly because there are no good 200mm fans for radiators. You'll probably want to stick with 120mm fans or 140mm fans. It takes static pressure to push air through a radiator and the larger the fan usually the less the static pressure unless it's made particularly for it. Most 200mm fans are low speed and don't have that many fins so they would be very poor for radiators. Pressure can escape between fins, so the larger the fan the more fins it should have to maintain good static pressure. Some people even question the quality of the 140mm fans that are available right now for radiators, but I think most would agree they're ok to use for radiators.

To save space would a Koolance RP 985 or RP 1005 be a good decision?
 
I don't have any experience with those pumps, so someone else is going to have to chime in on that.

But again, I would focus my efforts right now on what you're going to be able to do with your set up. In this case, your case is fixed since you already own it. You need to decide what you can do with it in terms of radiator space. There are only so many variables to a water cooling system. You have available radiator space (case) which in your case is fixed. You have your fan tolerance which you've identified in your case as low speed. So right there you've basically told yourself what you're going to be able to cool. You know about how much radiator you can use based on other build logs with your case and your measurements with your case. You know you want low speed fans because you want it silent. You need to identify the best low fan speed radiator for you and given how much of that radiator you can fit in your system you can calculate how much you can cool.

I'm afraid that you're going to find it's going to be difficult to cool a CPU and large GPU internally on your case silently.

The pump, res, fittings, tubing etc. are the details that can be worked out later. They aren't going to really affect your overall loop set up that much.

After just a doing a quick Google search for the pumps you've asked about, I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess that you can get a better pump and res for a lot less money going a different route. Those things are expensive. But again I have no experience with them so someone else will have to chime in.
 
I'm going to guess that the pump in the RP1005 is a DDC3.2, and the markup (from just buying that pump) is over 100%. You're not going to have a hard time finding somewhere for your pump or res, finding places for your rad is what's gonna be an issue, so unless you have SPECIFIC reason that you need space in one direction (and you're not nearly at that stage of planning as far as I'm concerned), don't worry about where much but your rad is gonna go.
 
You can easily fit in a d5 into a corsair 600t. And, you don't even have to get a bay reservoir (I'm not going against them, just saying). I've seen loads of builds with a tube reservoir and a d5 fitting in perfectly.

Oh and lets not forget a 200mm radiator in the front of the case. Talk about space issues. ;)
 
Basically there are four main areas that you need to worry about right now: available radiator area (determined by case), your noise tolerance (determined by you), what you want to cool, and your radiator model (determined by the other 3).

What I keep hinting at is this:

1) Corsair 600t
2) Quiet -> So roughly 1400 rpm fans or lower
3) Cool CPU and GPU
4) Doesn't matter, they don't make it

Say you can get 120.3 worth of radiator space internally. You're not going to be able to cool, very quietly, your CPU and GPU. The point is that something has to give.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I could be because I have done no research for your particular set up, but I just don't think you're going to be able to have all three and have a system that performs very well.
 
You can maybe get away with it if you don't mind having not-so-great temps or not-so-great OC's, but if you want it all, you'll need the rad space.
 
..Can't he do an external rad? Mod the case door a bit for the rad space, plus some holes for the water tubes?

That's also an option, I was discussing the possibility of doing it all on 120.3 though, sorry, that should have been made more clear.
 
Basically there are four main areas that you need to worry about right now: available radiator area (determined by case), your noise tolerance (determined by you), what you want to cool, and your radiator model (determined by the other 3).

What I keep hinting at is this:

1) Corsair 600t
2) Quiet -> So roughly 1400 rpm fans or lower
3) Cool CPU and GPU
4) Doesn't matter, they don't make it

Say you can get 120.3 worth of radiator space internally. You're not going to be able to cool, very quietly, your CPU and GPU. The point is that something has to give.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I could be because I have done no research for your particular set up, but I just don't think you're going to be able to have all three and have a system that performs very well.


Hey, So I have looked at a lot of systems and they seem to generally do something like this:

Phobya Extreme 200mm up front with fan pushing air through the radiator out the case (and I actually have seen this reversed too, so don't know what is best)
XSPC RS240mm Rad up top and have the fans above that.

After that I have no clue what pump/reservoir, CPU or GPU block to get. Would this be enough Radiator? And 3 fans should be quiet enough :)
 
You can maybe get away with it if you don't mind having not-so-great temps or not-so-great OC's, but if you want it all, you'll need the rad space.

Also, I should have clarified this earlier. I want it quiet when I am surfing the web, emails, doing my workouts (p90x2) etc. When I am gaming, I don't care that much because I will have my speakers on or will have my headphones on. So with the 200mm rad and 240mm rad and maybe a controller? I don't know if its possible as I am completely new to this. All I know is my 3 case fans and Noctua cooler with 2 fans are quiet, but I want quieter. My idle temps and Load temps right now are not great, but I am ok with that right now. Thanks for all of your help and input!
 
The temps and noise would be fine for surfing the web, even on an air cooler...just fwiw
 
..Can't he do an external rad? Mod the case door a bit for the rad space, plus some holes for the water tubes?

He most certainly can. Once you cross that external line you can do anything. You can plant as much radiator as you want wherever you want. I was just going on the assumption he wanted to keep it internal.

Hey, So I have looked at a lot of systems and they seem to generally do something like this:

Phobya Extreme 200mm up front with fan pushing air through the radiator out the case (and I actually have seen this reversed too, so don't know what is best)
XSPC RS240mm Rad up top and have the fans above that.

After that I have no clue what pump/reservoir, CPU or GPU block to get. Would this be enough Radiator? And 3 fans should be quiet enough :)

If people are doing that then that tells you that you can get that to fit. Now you know you can have a 240 up top and 200 in the front, but because others have used an XSPC RS240 does not mean that that is the radiator for you. You need to identify your fan speed limit and choose the best radiator given that. Also, the number of fans doesn't really say anything about the sound they're going to put out. A single 2000 RPM fan is going to be considerably louder than any number of 1400 RPM fans.

It is impossible to know if that will be enough because you have not told me a fan speed yet which is the first thing you should do, and you have not told me a particular radiator model. You have said XSPC RS240, but I believe that is because that's what others have used and not because that's what your research has pointed you to. I say this because you have not identified a fan speed so there's no way your research can point you anywhere.

I also have no clue as to the performance of the Phobya 200. What fans are you planning to run on it? Have you been able to find any formal reviews for what wattage this radiator can dissipate?

Also, I should have clarified this earlier. I want it quiet when I am surfing the web, emails, doing my workouts (p90x2) etc. When I am gaming, I don't care that much because I will have my speakers on or will have my headphones on. So with the 200mm rad and 240mm rad and maybe a controller? I don't know if its possible as I am completely new to this. All I know is my 3 case fans and Noctua cooler with 2 fans are quiet, but I want quieter. My idle temps and Load temps right now are not great, but I am ok with that right now. Thanks for all of your help and input!

If you're willing to put up with louder fans while gaming then that totally changes the ballgame. I can't stress this enough, but you need to get this nailed down. I don't mean nailing it down in the sense of "I want a low speed fan." Listen to some 1400 RPM fans on the videos, listen to some 1800 RPM fans on the videos, listen to some 2000 RPM fans on the videos, etc. Find out how much you can tolerate. Until you have this part of it nailed down you can go no further. We need a quantitative number before we can help you any further, not just a qualitative characteristic.

Even though "silent" liquid cooling while gaming is hard to do unless you've got a case built for many radiators or go external, not as silent liquid is still a big improvement over air. Even with 10 high speed Yate Loon fans (2000 RPM) in my case it is way, way quieter than having 2 GTX 570's with the fans on 70%+. There's no comparison.

A fan controller is possible and in fact probably necessary for any fans that are above 1400 RPM or so.

I have an exam tomorrow so I won't be able to help anymore until after that. I'm seriously stressing to you to identify what fan speeds you want to use. You really need to do that before you can go any further or have any idea of whether something will be enough radiator or not.
 
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The reason I am considering the RS240 is because of the slimmer profile. It seems as though a regular profile Rad will not fit in this case. The numbers I could find for the i7 950 are the following - [email protected] - 117watts, [email protected], [email protected] watts, [email protected]. The GTX 580 Idle is 150watts, and load is 363 watts. (Seeing these numbers actually makes me worried and wonder if my 600 watt supply is enough?) Perhaps I am misunderstanding these numbers.
I am currently at 3.8Ghz, however I will try for 4 and higher. The GTX however is fine at stock because my monitor only supports 1080 and I haven't run into problems yet.

These are the items I am considering
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...oling_Kit_w_Free_Kill_Coil.html?tl=g30c83s137
This is the kit. Comes with the pump/reservoir and a pump rate of 750 lph (12.5L/min), CPU block, Rad and Low Noise 1700rpm 120mm Fan x2. I have a fan controller on my case on the top that I could use to control the speeds of the fans. Idle I could have it on lowest, gaming I will crank it.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...ator_Silverstone_Cooler_Master_Yate_Loon.html
This is the 200mm radiator for the front. The case comes stock with 2x200mm fans. I was going to use one of these, however I can't find ratings for it. I am open to suggestions on new fan options.
I will also need to buy a block for the GTX580. Overall, this looks like it will be around $300. Thanks for the detailed responses!
 
Also, I am from Canada and noticed this website with great prices for myself. This looks like perhaps a better option with the pump and reservoir.
http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=178_179&products_id=1739

Edit
So I actually called that company and spoke with someone and he suggested this kit:
http://dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=178_201&products_id=1872
Would be absolutely fine for what I needed it for. I had said that I was recommended to get more than a 240 and he said this should be fine. I also want to note I can add a 120 on the rear as an exhaust and that would add more cooling. That will only add another 43.99.

Edit
Also, I have some Dynamat from my car audio installation left over and I do remember someone saying dampening material can be used in a PC. Are there any articles on how much it would improve noise? Does it actually help?
 
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I was actually just going to recommend you look at those two items. Actually that is a great kit for a great price. I don't know if there are any reviews of the EX out yet, but you could search for some.

The Raystorm is also a good block. I actually chose it in my new build over the Apogee HD from Swiftech and the EK HF Supreme. I thought it was as good or better performing than the others and it also matched my build with the black look.

The D5 is also a pretty popular pump. I don't know if that is the same D5 as like a MCP655, but if so then it's been very popular.

I don't know how well it will perform, but given your space constraints it may be the best that you can do. As far as it being fine, it really depends on your definition of fine. Can you install it and have the system run with probably pretty good temps relative to air? Yea it could maybe pull that off. If you're shooting for 10C dT and lots of overclocking headroom then I'd be pretty surprised if a single 240 will do the job given your system, but again I haven't seen any reviews on the radiator.
 
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You might also check out the MCRx20-XP series from Swiftech. It is a thinner profile with higher fpi, so it may still have pretty good performance when paired with higher speed fans (1800RPM and up). I haven't read any reviews on it either, but it's just something to look at.
 
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