What do you pick - E21xx OR E7200 OR Others, and what RAM?

[Wai_Wai]

What do you pick - E21xx OR E7200 OR Others, and what RAM?

I'm a budget overclocker. I'm also a price/performance geek.
My current pick is E21xx which is very cheap and can overclock to 3.0Ghz easily with stock cooler. I'm also interested in the new E7200 but it's 100% expensive at my local stores (I don't buy online!).
My choice of the coming motherboard is Foxconn P35A-S.

1. What's the difference between E21xx and E7200?
As far as I know, the only differences are cache size and clock multiplier. Anything else?

2. Normally speaking, how far can E7200 go on stock cooling? How good is the overclockabilty of E7200?
I plan to use its stock cooler only. I don't plan to spend extra bucks on aftermarket coolers unless it's proved to be worth it, price/performance-wise.

3. How much RAM should I get? My choices:
3GB: 1GB + 1GB + 1GB
3GB: 2GB + 1GB
4GB: 2GB + 2GB
Does it hurt if I mix different RAM brand, or different size/timings of RAM?

I'm using Windows XP Pro.
I need to receive a lot of streaming data (10+). I may do occasional video & audio editing/recording. I don't often play games.

DDR2 should be obsolete in 1-2 years. I believe I have to dump DDR2 when I upgrade after 3 years or so. So I don't think it's worth buying too much RAM even it's cheap.

Dual channel shouldn't be a concern. Memory seems not to be the bottleneck. Hardly any application needs so much bandwidth.

What do you think?

 

[ImSpartacus]

What do you pick - E21xx OR E7200 OR Others, and what RAM?

I'm a budget overclocker. I'm also a price/performance geek.
My current pick is E21xx which is very cheap and can overclock to 3.0Ghz easily with stock cooler. I'm also interested in the new E7200 but it's 100% expensive at my local stores (I don't buy online!).
My choice of the coming motherboard is Foxconn P35A-S.

1. What's the difference between E21xx and E7200?
As far as I know, the only differences are cache size and clock multiplier. Anything else?

2. Normally speaking, how far can E7200 go on stock cooling? How good is the overclockabilty of E7200?
I plan to use its stock cooler only. I don't plan to spend extra bucks on aftermarket coolers unless it's proved to be worth it, price/performance-wise.

3. How much RAM should I get? My choices:
3GB: 1GB + 1GB + 1GB
3GB: 2GB + 1GB
4GB: 2GB + 2GB
Does it hurt if I mix different RAM brand, or different size/timings of RAM?

I'm using Windows XP Pro.
I need to receive a lot of streaming data (10+). I may do occasional video & audio editing/recording. I don't often play games.

DDR2 should be obsolete in 1-2 years. I believe I have to dump DDR2 when I upgrade after 3 years or so. So I don't think it's worth buying too much RAM even it's cheap.

Dual channel shouldn't be a concern. Memory seems not to be the bottleneck. Hardly any application needs so much bandwidth.

What do you think?

I would snag the E7200. It is far superior to the E2**0's.

I also would get 2x2GB RAM, it's dirt cheap. Where do you live (roughly)? I really suggest looking at Newegg, they are a highly respected online retailer.

2x2GB RAM is about $80 now and the E7200 is about $130, but I'm not sure if you can get US pricing.

 

[Wai_Wai]

I would snag the E7200. It is far superior to the E2**0's.

What makes E7200 superior?

While stock E2**0 sucks, an overclocked E2**0 will be cheap and powerful.
E2**0 can be overclocked to 3.0Ghz easily AFAIK, even with stock cooler. An overclocked E2**0 can match a stock C2D extreme X6800.

So far I only found cases where a user can overclock E7200 up to 3.16Ghz with stock cooler. If I can push it up to 3.6Ghz easily (no/slight voltage increased) with stock cooler, I would give it a try.

Regarding cache size, I don't think it's impressive. Reading several sources like the following (I can't find a direct comparison of 1MB vs 3MB cache though):
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/24/does_cache_size_matter

The real gain is small. A few things to note. First they can to stress the CPU so much to create a difference. For example running ten thousands of calculation simultaneously in MS Excel to make a noticeable difference. Second, even if it has a difference, it may mean some or ten something seconds faster.

For normal usage (eg converting a normal DVD5 into another format), I don't think the cache alone will help much, is it?

2x2GB RAM, it's dirt cheap

Yes, it's dirt cheap but my Windows XP won't let me utilise all 4GB. The last 1GB is going to be wasted. Plus DDR2 seems to be dying so it isn't worth investing on DDR2. If the combination of 3GB doesn't hurt, I may as well go for 3GB. I'm living outside US so no Newegg.

Prices at my local stores:
E2160 / E2180: US$58.97 / 65.38 ( -- / +10.87%)
E7200: US$121.54 (+106.10%)
E8200 / E8400: US$ 166.92 / 171.66 (+183.06% / +191.10%)
Q6600: US$193.97 (+228.93%)

 

[NinjaZX6R]

What makes E7200 superior?

While stock E2**0 sucks, an overclocked E2**0 will be cheap and powerful.
E2**0 can be overclocked to 3.0Ghz easily AFAIK, even with stock cooler. An overclocked E2**0 can match a stock C2D extreme X6800.

So far I only found cases where a user can overclock E7200 up to 3.16Ghz with stock cooler. If I can push it up to 3.6Ghz easily (no/slight voltage increased) with stock cooler, I would give it a try.

Regarding cache size, I don't think it's impressive. Reading several sources like the following (I can't find a direct comparison of 1MB vs 3MB cache though):
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/24/does_cache_size_matter

The real gain is small. A few things to note. First they can to stress the CPU so much to create a difference. For example running ten thousands of calculation simultaneously in MS Excel to make a noticeable difference. Second, even if it has a difference, it may mean some or ten something seconds faster.

For normal usage (eg converting a normal DVD5 into another format), I don't think the cache alone will help much, is it?


Yes, it's dirt cheap but my Windows XP won't let me utilise all 4GB. The last 1GB is going to be wasted. Plus DDR2 seems to be dying so it isn't worth investing on DDR2. If the combination of 3GB doesn't hurt, I may as well go for 3GB. I'm living outside US so no Newegg.

Prices at my local stores:
E2160 / E2180: US$58.97 / 65.38 ( -- / +10.87%)
E7200: US$121.54 (+106.10%)
E8200 / E8400: US$ 166.92 / 171.66 (+183.06% / +191.10%)
Q6600: US$193.97 (+228.93%)

I have to say I am a little disappointed in your post, Wai Wai. It appears as if you have already done hours upon hours of research, waited for the first person to reply with a suggestion, and then jump on them for their recommendation. Why ask a question if you have it answered already? A few things I think you should be aware of...

1) E7200 and 3.16ghz do not belong in the same sentence. If that's as high as they went, I can guarantee you it was 100% user error or faulty hardware.

2) E2xxx is half the price, you're correct on that. But components increase in cost exponentially as frequency and cache increase go up. Look at the Q9550 vs. the QX9650. We're talking a $500+ difference for another 170mhz and an unlocked multiplier. It's not fair to say that the E7200 should be 100% faster than the E2xxx due to cost.

3) E2xxx are lousy overclockers at best. All that I have seen have a FSB wall well below 400mhz. If you consider yourself a budget overclocker, then that's fine...but the best regarded budget overclocking chip that has been recognized on these forums is the E7200. That's not my opinion; it's the opinion of hundreds.

I know you mean well and you're seriously considering your options here, but with my years of experience I have come to learn something: nothing is free. There are many, many measures that can be taken to cut costs, but there is a certain "sweet spot" in overclocking and unfortunately, that spot is different for everyone. For me, it's the E8400. It is $180 and can outperform CPUs costing five times as much in the right hands. So in a nutshell, if all you can afford is $59, then get the E2xxx. If you can drop $120, then the E7200 will outperform it in every way, shape and form. You just have to ask yourself if the $+60 is worth it. For me and many others, it certainly is.

-Collin-

 

[jason4207]

You're going to want to run 2x1GB or 2x2GB RAM. The other combinations might actually hurt your performance. You want to run dual channel memory using matching pairs.

Yes XP-32 might not be able to see all 4GB, but it's still worth the cost over getting a 3GB. The only 3GB setup I'd consider would be a 2x1GB + 2x512MB, but again, 2x2GB is so cheap right now it doesn't make sense to do anything else.

 

[JonSimonzi]

E7200 is THE best budget overclocker. You talk about value and bang for your buck, which the E7200 is full of. And it's just as Jason said, you want to run 2x sticks of the same size ram to use it in dual channel mode. 2GB in dual channel would be better than 3GB not in dual channel, just as 4GB in dual channel with less than 1GB going to waste because of a 32bit OS would be better than both aforementioned options.

 

[Wai_Wai]

It appears as if you have already done hours upon hours of research, waited for the first person to reply with a suggestion, and then jump on them for their recommendation. Why ask a question if you have it answered already? A few things I think you should be aware of...

Sorry that my thread isn't clear and may be confusing.

I do have something in mind that's unclear. First apart from cache and multiplier, is there any difference that I don't know between E21xx and 7200 (which may affect my purchase decision)? Second, how much can E7200 can go if I use stock cooler only?

I know E7200 can go up to 4Ghz but most do so with expensive aftermarket coolers and with bigger voltage adjustment. I don't plan to use aftermarket coolers because (1) it seems to be against my purpose (making a good performance/price build) (2) I don't know much about aftermarket coolers.

Also about the RAM, what hurts if I mix different RAM in terms of timings, size, brand etc.? So far it seems the only problem is I can't run in dual channel.

1) E7200 and 3.16ghz do not belong in the same sentence. If that's as high as they went, I can guarantee you it was 100% user error or faulty hardware.

You miss one phrase which is 3.16Ghz with stock cooling. But it is just what I found so far. It doesn't mean it's the limit. I'm still trying to find out how far it can go with stock coolers only.

Look at the Q9550 vs. the QX9650. We're talking a $500+ difference for another 170mhz and an unlocked multiplier. It's not fair to say that the E7200 should be 100% faster than the E2xxx due to cost.

...

but there is a certain "sweet spot" in overclocking and unfortunately, that spot is different for everyone.

Yes it's true. Different people have different value judgement about what they pay and what they get. Some people will spend hundreds to get small real gains, or new technology/gains which sound great. As I said I'm price/performance geek. So spending $500+ for 170mhz and unlocked multiplier is not me. I love to make a build which can use the least money to get the most even I'm not especially tight on budget.

After all there is no right and wrong in either approach. It all comes down to your purposes and your value judgement.

To me, the deciding factor (now) is overclockability. Good overclockability = good price/performance. But spending on aftermarket coolers will ruin my purposes. What I found so far is people with stock coolers stop at 3.16Ghhz. They may not pushing to the limit. I can't know.

Is it realistic to push E7200 to 3.6Ghz with stock coolers only?

 

[Dapman02]

I have 2 E7200's
I know one will clock to 4.0Ghz easy on my p35
I have yet to clock the other one, but I am about ready to. From what I heard I got a good batch on the second one too. IMHO I E7200 is more fun, and runs cooler. 45nm FTW!!!

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Yes, there's a VERY large difference - 45nm process for the E7200 and 65nm for the E2000 series.

Stock cooler is fine. I see plenty of people doing 3.6-3.8ghz on it. As long as you aren't passing 1.35v or so, it's just fine. It's not ideal, but it works fine.

-Collin-

 

[ziggo0]

I had (have) both.

I bought an e2180, it clocked to roughly 3.4ghz within reasonable voltage under an Arctic Freezer 7 PRO, yeah it was nice for a $50 chip, quick here and there, but left wanting more.

I just got my e7200, paired with the rig in my sig, it's been cruising along at 4ghz easy since I got it, temps are lower, things seem faster, games run better with the added speed, I can honestly say I'm very happy with it over the e2180.

OH, and in between there I had a q6600...I'm even happier with the e7200 than the quad

 

[th3]

Im so tired of my E2140, it feels so slow it hurts. Performance in CPU intensive tasks is very good but honestly any AMD X2 CPU feels faster and snappier than this thing. No surprise there, Intels antiquated memory system need big cache and prefetching to perform well under all circumstances. Benchmarks will not tell you about system responsiveness.

 

[Wai_Wai]

I have 2 E7200's
I know one will clock to 4.0Ghz easy on my p35
I have yet to clock the other one, but I am about ready to. From what I heard I got a good batch on the second one too. IMHO I E7200 is more fun, and runs cooler. 45nm FTW!!!

What cooler do you use, stock or aftermarket?

What's the temp in idle and at full load? What's the peak temp?


One question, what's the (approx) average life of an aftermarket cooler?

 

[Wai_Wai]

One question:
Is single or double-sided RAM still a concern in today's world? If so, how can I know if it's single/double-sided and which one should I get?

 

[pascalbrown]

waiwai. Your logic is rather flawed. If you want the best performance/price ratio then your money is better spent on an aftermarket cooler. For example, take the E7200. It will clock to some GHz on the stock cooler. For the cost of the E8400 you could get the E7200 and a great aftermarket cooler, and so your E7200 would now run at 4GHz for the same price as an E8400 on a stock cooler. Which is faster? The E7200, with aftermarket cooler, will clock higher than an E8400 on a stock cooler.

If you want the best price/performance ratio then you should budget for an aftermarket cooler.

 

[mdamda]

Not really much of a concern, but if you're into overclocking, 2 DIMMs are better than 4.

 

[blazed]

E7200 is a 45nm CPU, I'd suggest finding some articles from the release of Intel's Wolfdale cores to find all the differences. In a nut shell the new 45nm cores are faster clock for clock, SSE4, run cooler, use less voltage, and overclock higher.

The E5200 is apparently around the corner, and may just knock the E7200 off the best value overclock CPU when it is released.

I'd like to suggest you rethink your stock cooling scenario, for $25 ($20 on sale) you can get a Freezer 7 Pro or Scythe Katana 2 and the difference is staggering. Stock cooling is designed to only just meet the requirments of the CPU's stock speed, overclocking on stock is loud, hot, and will most definetly reduce the CPU's life expectancy.

With one of these cheap HSFs you can expect 3.6ghz (of course assuming all your hardware allows it) out of an E7200 with simmilar temperatures as an E7200 at stock speeds with the stock cooler.

 

[Neuromancer]

E7200 is a 45nm CPU, I'd suggest finding some articles from the release of Intel's Wolfdale cores to find all the differences. In a nut shell the new 45nm cores are faster clock for clock, SSE4, run cooler, use less voltage, and overclock higher.

The E5200 is apparently around the corner, and may just knock the E7200 off the best value overclock CPU when it is released.

I'd like to suggest you rethink your stock cooling scenario, for $25 ($20 on sale) you can get a Freezer 7 Pro or Scythe Katana 2 and the difference is staggering. Stock cooling is designed to only just meet the requirments of the CPU's stock speed, overclocking on stock is loud, hot, and will most definetly reduce the CPU's life expectancy.

With one of these cheap HSFs you can expect 3.6ghz (of course assuming all your hardware allows it) out of an E7200 with simmilar temperatures as an E7200 at stock speeds with the stock cooler.

Yup that nails it.

10-15% faster clock for clock and the SSE4 optimization is another 10-15% faster in video encoding if you use the software that supports (divX for instance)

Not to mention it will OC higher, I do not know about stock cooling, I wouldnt use stock cooling on anyting (exception quad core stock cooler on my e6550 works just great its copper cored not aluminum though. Still my tuniq is better and runs quieter)

 

[BlackEdition]

i agree that you need to think about aftermarket cooling and factor it in to your budget. an aftermarket cooler is going to last as long if not longer than the stock cooler, and 95% of stock coolers are absolute garbage.

as a few people have said already, there are plenty of low cost aftermarket cooling solutions that are extremely effective and will allow you much better overclocking potential to squeeze that extra performance out of the $ you spend.

i would take a look at the xigmatek rs 128

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233012

 

[Wai_Wai]

Take a look at this result:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showpost.php?p=29596535&postcount=2

He is able to push E7200 to 3.4Ghz (upper limit) with default voltage only.
I don't know what cooler he uses (most likely not stock cooler).
Since that he doesn't need to increase voltage, I assume it's safe to push up to 3.4Ghz with stock cooler (+400mhz comparing with E21xx@3Ghz on stock cooling). Increase in speed alone should cause little heat.

1) I tend not to increase voltage because higher voltage would reduce the life of the CPU. How much voltage can I add without noticeably reduce the life of a CPU?

2) I don't know how much I can gain if I add an US$20-30 aftermarket cooler. Approximately how much further can I push and at what voltage? I want to play safe without stressing the CPU too much.

3) Approximately how long can an aftermarket cooler last? How much power do they consume?

4) What about getting a US$10-15 cooler?

 

[Dapman02]

What cooler do you use, stock or aftermarket?

What's the temp in idle and at full load? What's the peak temp?


One question, what's the (approx) average life of an aftermarket cooler?

Idle-about 35
Load-about 60
Aftermarket Air coolers will work pretty indefiently, water coolers run about 10,000 hours...I think