Why do you have to bleed PC water cooling setups?

[magellan]

I just drained and refilled my Ford Exploder cooling system (incl. heater core), The Chilton's manual doesn't say anything about bleeding the system, only that the coolant level in the overflow tank/bottle has to be checked. Are overflow tanks/bottles part of PC water cooling systems? Are there special solutions to flush a PC water cooling system (to get rid of scale, like in car radiator systems)?

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Because it self-bleeds on a car. Usually it'll run enough air out that you have to top off the reservoir (just like on a pc).

 

[Clovett]

Got me, I didn't bleed mine nor did I fill it up first. I just made sure water was past the pump, filled the reservoir and tapped 12v to it. When the reservoir as at 25% or so I killed power and filled the reservoir back up. Since the pump always had water it wasn't an issue. When it did fill I just leaned the unit over about 65 degrees and let the rest of the air bubbles hit the reservoir then finished topping it off. My level has not dropped hardly any, maybe 1/8 of an inch?

 

[ssjwizard]

Got me, I didn't bleed mine nor did I fill it up first. I just made sure water was past the pump, filled the reservoir and tapped 12v to it. When the reservoir as at 25% or so I killed power and filled the reservoir back up. Since the pump always had water it wasn't an issue. When it did fill I just leaned the unit over about 65 degrees and let the rest of the air bubbles hit the reservoir then finished topping it off. My level has not dropped hardly any, maybe 1/8 of an inch?

What you just described is bleeding the system dude.

Bleeding is the process of getting the air out of the lines. Most PC cooling systems include a reservoir for this purpose. The description of what was stated in the manual for your truck is the same. Fill the system as far as you can run it and then check the reservoir later. IF the reservoir level is low you top it off. The res catches the air and allows additional coolant to flow into the lines. This works exactly the same way with your PC, but your dealing with smaller volumes of liquid and smaller lines.

 

[Clovett]

What you just described is bleeding the system dude.

Well look at that. I just thought it was an easy way to fill it.

 

[magellan]

Do PC H2O cooling systems ever have problems w/rust? It seems like car radiators always, inevitably, rust out badly enough to need repairs or replacement.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Do PC H2O cooling systems ever have problems w/rust? It seems like car radiators always, inevitably, rust out badly enough to need repairs or replacement.

Not likely. There shouldn't be any steel or iron exposed to a water loop. It's mostly plastics and aluminum. (right water guys?)

 

[ssjwizard]

Not likely. There shouldn't be any steel or iron exposed to a water loop. It's mostly plastics and aluminum. (right water guys?)

Copper, stainless, and acetyl plastic mostly. Occasionally Acrylic or PolyCarbonate plastic.

AFAIK nothing manufactured in the last 5 or 6 years for PC water cooling uses Aluminum other than those premade sealed loops.

Galvanic corrosion is a SERIOUS problem with water cooling loops, and its essential you never combine reactive metals in a single loop. Oxidation also occurs. PC water cooling is not a set it and forget it system. Your looking to do maintenence every 6-12 months involving dismantling every block cleaning every o-ring, and putting it back together without leaving any oils on any part. The oils and acids on human skin are notorious for destroying copper.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Copper, stainless, and acetyl plastic mostly. Occasionally Acrylic or PolyCarbonate plastic.

AFAIK nothing manufactured in the last 5 or 6 years for PC water cooling uses Aluminum other than those premade sealed loops.

Galvanic corrosion is a SERIOUS problem with water cooling loops, and its essential you never combine reactive metals in a single loop. Oxidation also occurs. PC water cooling is not a set it and forget it system. Your looking to do maintenence every 6-12 months involving dismantling every block cleaning every o-ring, and putting it back together without leaving any oils on any part. The oils and acids on human skin are notorious for destroying copper.

Thanks! I don't run water (yet?) so I could only answer to the best of my knowledge.

Didn't know about the acid on our hands part.

 

[Valk]

I dont think you need to plan that kind of strict maintenance.. i just tore my rig down for a rebuild after 3 years of running pure tap water and there really wasnt anything gross in there at all.
if your running distilled and some kind of anti fungal, you will never have to touch the thing short of topping it up every now and then as some water always evaporates through the tubing walls.

I actually dont even run anti fungal at all, just straight distilled.
as long as its all copper/brass/plastics it should be good.

as for bleeding; everyone does it different but there really isn't anything wrong with setting the whole system up and running it while it bleeds.
i ran my pump connected to a 12v power supply over dinner to prime the system then after dinner turned on the computer and let it chew bubbles for a a day or so. I maybe wouldn't dump a full heatload through but was enough to get the new system formatted ect. certainly no worse than stock cooling.

as long as you buy quality parts, liquid cooling should outlast every peice of your computer. my D5 pump has lived through 5 different platforms since 2006. i wiped it out and replaced the wire in it with somthing meatier, and it will be in use for 5 more lol.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

I dont think you need to plan that kind of strict maintenance.. i just tore my rig down for a rebuild after 3 years of running pure tap water and there really wasnt anything gross in there at all.
if your running distilled and some kind of anti fungal, you will never have to touch the thing short of topping it up every now and then as some water always evaporates through the tubing walls.

I actually dont even run anti fungal at all, just straight distilled.
as long as its all copper/brass/plastics it should be good.

For the most part yes but we still advise to drain and refill in the 6 month period and doing a clean tear down annually to ensure nothing grows etc.

as for bleeding; everyone does it different but there really isn't anything wrong with setting the whole system up and running it while it bleeds.

I understand folks who have been doing watercooling before some of us but I wouldn't recommend powering the whole system while bleeding and obviously before any leak tests. To each their own but in a general sense I wouldn't do it the way you have described it.

 

[Valk]

Leaks are usually apparent pretty quick but you are right. Just depebds how thouroghly you inspect things prior to assembly ect. With car cooling we have torque specs ect so it usually goes together and you forget about it.

I always use metal clamps and new silicon orings when rebuilding so I don't fear leaks though a leaky rad is possible.

For me though if the towels are dry within an hour I can't see it leaking.

Make sure to run fans while bleeding or leak testing though. My d5 put enough heat into the loop over a full evening to warm up the water a decent amount without active cooling.
Thus any slow leaks would evaporate before hitting the towel.

 

[magellan]

Does the coolant in car radiator systems act like a fungicide? I've never had to worry about fungus in any car radiator system.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Does the coolant in car radiator systems act like a fungicide? I've never had to worry about fungus in any car radiator system.

Well, last time I check most don't run water in cars, just a mix of pure coolant and water. I imagine the coolant has some anti-fungal stuff, or becasue it is a car, it gets too hot for fungus to grow.

 

[Valk]

Nothing can live in antifreeze lol.
Most cars run antifreeze distilled water mixture. Race cars however run distilled with a non toxic additive like water wetter as per rules.
Not sure how non toxic it is lol.
Doesnt take a lot to kill fungus in the loop. A cap of water wetter or antifreeze is usually enough just make sure it doesn't leak if you have pets around.

 

[ssjwizard]

2 drops of copper sulfate and call it a day with biocide. You can get dead water, or a number of other brands of this same stuff from frozen, or performance pcs. One $8 bottle and your set for YEARS.

 

[Valk]

that is actually somthing im gonna look into ssj, thank you. I also have this stuff called virex that is rediculously anti living but there are advantages to no treatments at all.
when its time to drain the system, it doesnt have to be disposed of as a hasmat.

 

[JeremyCT]

Does the coolant in car radiator systems act like a fungicide? I've never had to worry about fungus in any car radiator system.

Modern car cooling systems have an operating temperature of 215-220 deg F. Plenty hot enough to kill any biologicals that might happen to stray into the coolant. It doesn't boil over due to being under pressure (usually 2.5-3.5 bar depending on the system) and the fact that a 50/50 water/coolant mix has a higher boiling temp than pure water (around 230 deg F at 1 atm IIRC, 250-260 when the pressure cap works properly).

You'd need a dT of 80 deg C to hit the kind of temps seen in an automotive system in a typical water loop. Most of us try to keep it under 10, 15 tops.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

the fact that a 50/50 water/coolant mix has a higher boiling temp than pure water

That's backward. Coolant lowers the freezing point and boiling point simultaneously. Why else would race cars run straight water?

 

[magellan]

Would it be possible, or advisable, to run the stuff computer overclockers use in their cooling loops in automotive cooling applications? What I'd really like is something that can stop radiators from rusting out.