Windows 10: The next chapter

[EarthDog]

So no free lunch for 'Insider/beta testers' after all. You have to pay for win 10 one way or another.

Perhaps I missed something but... the sentence before that alludes to something a bit different??

If your system upgraded from a Genuine Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 license it will remain activated, but if not, you will be required to roll back to your previous OS version or acquire a new Windows 10 license. If you do not roll back or acquire a new license the build will eventually expire.

I may have misunderstood that passage or am missing some context. That tells me that if you did not have a "genuine" W7/8 license you will have to roll back and it will expire...

So long as you have a legit version of W7/8, you will get it free.

 

[Janus67]

That's correct, here's Arstechnica's write-up of the matter (most recent update included)

On Friday, Microsoft appeared to describe a way to get Windows 10 at no cost that would apply to everyone. While the company has been clear that Windows 7 and 8 users would be able to upgrade to Windows 10 at no cost for one year after Windows 10's July 29 release, the Friday blog post seemed to create a way that everyone else could get an activated, genuine copy of the software for free, too.

Over the weekend, the company backed away from this idea, altering the wording of its post to remove the semblance of an official path to free Windows 10. Today, the company has made a third update that spells out the situation more clearly than it has done in the past.

First, it says that Windows 10, both the final release and the preview releases, should only be used on "Genuine Windows devices." Installed it into a virtual machine to test? It's probably not properly licensed. Stuck it on an old Windows Vista machine you had lying around? We don't know. Probably not licensed, because Windows Vista isn't eligible for the free Windows 10 upgrade license offer. Will anyone notice or care? No.

Beyond that, Windows 10 users are split into two camps. The first camp is made of those who want to remain in the Windows Insider program. The Insider program will continue after July 29, and Microsoft will continue to use it for beta testing and soliciting end-user feedback. Anyone who sticks with the program will continue to receive a steady series of activated, genuine operating system releases. As with any other Microsoft beta, these updates will be timebombed; after several months, they'll expire. But new versions will be provided long before those timers ever hit.

The second camp is the one that wants to opt out of the Insider program and stick with the stable release on July 29. This group will need a valid Windows 7, 8, or 10 license. Without a suitable license, the operating system will eventually expire. If the Insider builds were installed as an upgrade to Windows 7 or 8, they'll remain activated once they switch to RTM. Microsoft hasn't said what the story is if a clean installation of Windows 10 is performed; we imagine that there will be some way of entering a suitable license key to satisfy the operating system that it's suitably licensed.

Functionally, this creates a way for people to use Windows 10 forever without paying. They just have to stay in the Insider program and make sure to keep their systems updated so they never hit the expiration. But if you want a stable release build, you'll need to either have a qualifying Windows 7 or 8 license or pay for a Windows 10 license, with no backdoor route to getting one for free.

 

[Audioaficionado]

Perhaps I missed something but... the sentence before that alludes to something a bit different??



I may have misunderstood that passage or am missing some context. That tells me that if you did not have a "genuine" W7/8 license you will have to roll back and it will expire...

So long as you have a legit version of W7/8, you will get it free.

You pay for it by: 1. staying on as an insider guinea pig or 2. exchanging your win7/8 key for win 10 (ether or situation) or 3. $$$ to buy a win 10 license outright.

No free unencumbered win 10 RTM license just for being an insider.

 

[EarthDog]

Sorry, I guess by pay I was thinking cash out of pocket (which is not required if you meet the first two choices) not by sacrificing a key I already have (which is not remotely a big deal to me).

 

[c627627]

Thank you for clarifications.

It was always clear that everyone could get Windows 10 in exchange for giving up their legitimate Windows 7/8 license.
What was not clear is what happens to Windows Insider installs, *that have nothing to do with existing Windows 7/8 installs* and Audioaficionado cleared that up:

No free unencumbered win 10 RTM license just for being an insider.

So now, what are the details of what exactly 'unencumbered' means?

 

[Audioaficionado]

Unencumbered would be not having required updates that could potentially break your installation as in RTM. 'Debian Unstable' style for the fast ring. 'Debian Testing' style = slow ring. I'd say the slow ring is where you'd want to be if you want a fairly stable productive OS environment. Otherwise the fast ring will mostly be a plaything, but it's necessary for some to go with the fast ring to keep development at a good pace.

I'll continue on as an insider fast ring in an easily backed up VM. If they can fix my issue with it not installing on my Intel Matrix RAID0 partition, I'll commit to a hard drive installation and install a bunch of apps such as FAH so it will be semi productive. I've got a year to decide if it's worth any of my win7 keys.

 

[c627627]

So in short Mandatory Updates = free Windows 10 regardless of existing Windows 7/8 installation?


Could you clarify that further, are they using updates to validate your insider installation or else it expires?

 

[petteyg359]

So in short Mandatory Updates = free Windows 10 regardless of existing Windows 7/8 installation?


Could you clarify that further, are they using updates to validate your insider installation or else it expires?

It'd be ridiculous not to, or anybody could get a free copy of RTM just by stopping updates. Microsoft isn't your average non-profit...

 

[Janus67]

So in short Mandatory Updates = free Windows 10 regardless of existing Windows 7/8 installation?


Could you clarify that further, are they using updates to validate your insider installation or else it expires?

That and information phoned-home according to the Insider EULA from what I understand.

 

[Audioaficionado]

So in short Mandatory Updates = free Windows 10 regardless of existing Windows 7/8 installation?


Could you clarify that further, are they using updates to validate your insider installation or else it expires?

Each build has an eventual expiration date. To keep it live you have to move on to the next build with a later expiration date. Thus mandatory updates for the insiders. RTM should be able to refuse updates, but as time passes on, the OS vulnerabilities increase. Insiders will get the equivalent insider build of RTM, but it won't be RTM so it will be just another build that has an expiration date like all insider builds.

 

[c627627]

Thank you. I wasn't really asking "if" - it was more of a how question.
So that makes sense now. From that, the logical follow up is this:
We've established that every build you get as an Insider has an expiration date.

Are you free to upgrade an expired build - and thus reactivate it - at any time after expiration or is there a time limit post-expiration when you are shut out from getting further updates?



Major downside of this topic is if there is zero choice on updates.
Important updates I can live with. But mandatory optional updates and worse, mandatory hardware updates - that's just a recipe for permanent instability.

 

[Audioaficionado]

Well if you are still registered as an insider, I imagine you could just download the latest build .iso and install it and be running again. I don't know how you would save your expired installation that ceased to work. I think you have to be in a live windows environment to apply the upgrades and save your existing installed apps. Maybe they'll have a functioning update/upgrade option even though the build has expired or maybe not. That could be the carrot/stick to keep you from letting it expire in the first place. I don't really know, but just speculating like everyone else lol.

If I pay $$$ or give up one of my win7 keys for RTM, I'd better have the option to selectively refuse updates or it's a deal breaker.

 

[c627627]

Well we know for a fact RTM will have this option - so nothing to worry there.

But refusing optional and hardware updates and applying only critical OS updates to Insider version - and still have it not expire that is the remaining question, will that be an option?

Permanent Insider version also opens up questions of privacy.
It's one thing to play around with Beta on a test machine - but for main rig use, they're collecting all kinds of stuff in that Beta, I mean, many people don't care but privacy is something that would have to be given up, privacy issues if they are the same as they are for current builds, and I would imagine that they will be... We would have to at least look at what it is that they are collecting exactly that might be objectionable?

 

['Cuda340]

If I pay $$$ or give up one of my win7 keys for RTM, I'd better have the option to selectively refuse updates or it's a deal breaker.

Depends on what version you are running...


Windows 10 Home = No choice. Updates auto applied

Windows 10 Pro = Provides the option of customizing when and which Security Updates, Features and Fixes are applied. Note: Updates cannot be deferred indefinitely

 

[c627627]

Interesting last note there.
Although (I think) most of us just want to control the 'when' and the 'what' as far as updates go -- we do not want to run a completely unupdated system indefinitely -- can you post more on the 'Updates cannot be deferred indefinitely' feature?

 

['Cuda340]

​

Chart source



There has been talk of Windows as a Service & how updates would be handled since January this year.



This maybe of interest also:
Windows as a Service: What Does It Mean for Your Business?



Unsurprisingly, we again will likely have to wait until released or closer to release before we get the exact verbiage on the matter from Microsoft. Unless someone has something officially from them now ?? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[WrkBoot]

Is it possible to update to win 10 from win vista?? I don't want to give up my win7 just yet.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Is it possible to update to win 10 from win vista?? I don't want to give up my win7 just yet.

Win 7/8.1 users only.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

View attachment 165433​

Chart source



There has been talk of Windows as a Service & how updates would be handled since January this year.



This maybe of interest also:
Windows as a Service: What Does It Mean for Your Business?



Unsurprisingly, we again will likely have to wait until released or closer to release before we get the exact verbiage on the matter from Microsoft. Unless someone has something officially from them now ?? Anyone? Bueller?

And that killed it for me.

No option for home users to prevent updates?
No thanks.

 

[Janus67]

And that killed it for me.

No option for home users to prevent updates?
No thanks.

You can, just buy the pro version

Until someone finds a way to do it otherwise. It makes sense overall for home users to automatically retrieve updates in the majority of cases. Otherwise you end up going over to your <insert friend/family/co-worker/'s> house and find that the updates are 9 months behind and they want some help with their computer.