Windows 8 soon to be more like W7

[wingman99]

I'm glade there fixing Windows 8.1. I'm a power user and love to drag and drop folders and files. Also like to resize windows so I can see all 4 webpages at a time, I love desk top and IE browsers favorites.
Also love to cut and paste in desktop, love browser tabs IE and chrome. Also love to get to settings without having to remember the name of all things and just use the start screen in desktop instead of charms and sliding through menus to find settings.

 

[mbentley]

I used Windows 8/8.1 for over a year and I never had any problems using the new Start Menu seeing as 99% of my time, I was actually just using applications and not constantly closing and reopening them. Since I was using it for work, I actually had most of my applications pinned to the taskbar because if they weren't open, I probably wanted them open sooner or later.

I still feel like most of the hate on Windows 8 (heh, I'm rhyming) is from people who have never taken any time to really use it. It seems like c6 has been on a crusade to show people how easy it is to get the classic Windows 7 look in Windows 8 but people just didn't even give it a try. I am one of those people who would never go back to Windows 7 for my primary OS because Windows 8 is just better.

...now with that being said, I'm currently using OS X for work since I started my new job in January but that's besides the point

 

[Arbiter Odie]

Thideras, you asked a fair question about the antipathy for windows 8, and I’d like to answer. I’m bad with details, forgive me.
Here goes.

The problems are:
The Windows GUI became slower to use overall.
Microsoft doesn’t care about our needs and concerns.

The metro interface added new obstacles to accomplishing old tasks, and wasted our time for nothing. When multitasking, it hid other application windows from you, denying the ability to plan pointer movements. It forced extra clicks to focus on a program window, had a terrible learning curve for the hidden charm bars, and required keyboard shortcuts to function quickly.
Did you understand metro when you started using it? I didn’t, though I’ve been on the windows scene for years. I couldn’t find the control panel, and had to dig through microsoft’s system32 folder to find the resource monitor. It was terrible. I’ve been trying to find a saving grace in speed and functionally for a while now, but all I can say is that task manager looks spiffy.
Where’s the payoff for spending my time and mental energy to learn the new system? I can’t find one.

But the real problem has been Microsoft, and their indifference and seeming amusement at our pain.
We would say “Your gui is the same or slower than before”, and they would say “Windows 8 touchscreen functions! Better than android or ios! But on your desktop!”
…they never addressed our legitimate concerns, those being a stagnation or outright regression in workflow efficiency from Windows 7. And when we pushed further, they pushed out Windows 8.1 which left the metro interface in place, and tried to placate us nerds with a few feature changes, and promises for better multi-screen support. And hi-dpi support.
They ignored us and pushed us aside.

Being ignored by a friend hurts.
Being ignored by the juggernaut software company that drives industry trends with their decisions is more than emotionally painful. It is frightening.
Today they backslid on GUI usage. What about tomorrow? It’s clear what their intent is, the popularization of their app store. An integrated experience where the consumer does nothing but spend money. A depowering of simple consumers abilities to learn new skills in the future, because they can’t escape the mental box they’re placed in.

Thus the antipathy is born. We aren’t mad because windows 8 is silly, or poorly designed. We’re semi-panicked about the potential gradual loss of our freedom to move intellectually and financially upwards in the computing world using consumer priced software and hardware.

We all needed a starting place to check facebook and play minesweeper, to fiddle with word documents, and sometimes play battlefield. But we also needed a platform that had more options there for us if we wanted them. Windows has been that for years, and we don’t want it to go away now.

 

[Robert17]

I had installed 8.1 on a system build for a friend back in December, my first experience with it. It wasn't difficult to install and once I handed off the system I didn't mess with 8.1 again until this week when I installed it on an SSD in our HTPC. That rig still has the top cover off, the older SSD with Win7 installed still in the bracket but disconnected, the new SSD sitting on top. I did this as my wife uses it far more than I and she's been out of town for several days, returning yesterday. I didn't want to just drop a new OS on her and say "good luck with that" without having a quick and ready way to placate her in the event she threw a skillet at my head.

But once she turned it on, I showed her a couple of basics, still new to me in most ways, she said that it seemed fine by her. I'll button up the HTPC today sans Win7. Believe me, if my wife can figure this out easily, anyone can.

 

[c627627]

I am at a loss to understand the need to debate which is better and why when with a single click inside Classic Shell all native features of Windows 8 are restored. With a single click, some or all features of Windows 7 are there again for you if you so choose.

There is no need to argue which is better for everybody or to use one or the other permanently. With Classic Shell - both options are there - therefore why in the world go back to Windows 7 if Metro is your only problem? That is the point of Classic Shell - not that it removes Windows 8 native features - it doesn't.


I bought Windows 8 at OfficeMax on the day it came out and used it for a month without Classic Shell. I believe that makes me qualified to state a personal opinion about which option >>I<< opt to use more frequently as a matter of discussion, not as a matter of which is better for everybody. Arbiter Odie makes valid points above regarding what I also experienced. Proof that his points are valid is evident in what Microsoft actually did: Got rid of Sinofsky and his team over doing what Arbiter Odie pointed out, and got other people in there who are now finally and slowly giving us Windows 7 options back...


For whatever reason, they are still not giving us all the features back and will use their return as a marketing tool to sell future Windows 9.


Yet Classic Shell was there since even Windows 8.0 and it already did what the yet nowhere near complete Windows 9 is shaping up to be. Heck, the latest version of Classic Shell now even gives us animated Start buttons as options...


I think it's great if anyone finds Charms useful but for me, I used a stop watch when Windows 8.0 came out to see which was faster:

• *click* *click* reboot/shut down under Classic Shell
or
• Hover your mouse *carefully* in the corner, hoping to Fish-In the "Charms" pop-up, or rather *trying* to Fish-In Windows Charms then Fail once or twice to Fish it in

only to have to carefully scroll down to Settings thereafter... making sure that Charms doesn't disappear... Doesn't it take a bit of time after that for your eye to locate the Power button to only then bring up the menu to be able to perform the Reboot/Shut Down process?


I am all for giving people the option to have Charms but one psychologist is not enough. You need a team of psychologists to figure out how they justified having Windows 8 reboot/shut down process be done through Charms like that.

When I saw this, I was saved, and would never go back to Windows 7 because of this Charms-disabling option:

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

I am at a loss to understand the need to debate which is better and why when with a single click inside Classic Shell all native features of Windows 8 are restored. With a single click, some or all features of Windows 7 are there again for you if you so choose.

There is no need to argue which is better for everybody or to use one or the other permanently. With Classic Shell - both options are there - therefore why in the world go back to Windows 7 if Metro is your only problem? That is the point of Classic Shell - not that it removes Windows 8 native features - it doesn't.

Well, for me I simply have no needs to upgrade to 8. Windows 7 does everything I need + more.

While Windows 8 can be made to look and feel like 7 (thanks for showing us how to do that!) I see no point to upgrading only to make it look like Windows 7 again.

I'm sure other people look at it the same way as me, but that's my stance & 2 cents on it.

Only 5 left in stock for $25! Way cheaper than Windows 7.

Did you just link to Windows 3.1?


Good times with that OS

 

[GaldedRaw]

Its not that I cant learn to use windows 8/8.1 style. It is I do not want to use that style of operating system. The features they are going to add is making it more appealing though. Everyone is different and have their different put offs. Big thing for me is forcing people to accept a completely new standard. I don't see why they didn't do this originally with the windows 8/8.1 in the beginning. It would of allowed people to adjust to what they want instead of forcing one concept: an OS pushed completely towards a touch based application. Yes there are mouse and keyboard functions, but those aren't really optimal.

 

['Cuda340]

I still feel like most of the hate on Windows 8 (heh, I'm rhyming) is from people who have never taken any time to really use it. It seems like c6 has been on a crusade to show people how easy it is to get the classic Windows 7 look in Windows 8 but people just didn't even give it a try. I am one of those people who would never go back to Windows 7 for my primary OS because Windows 8 is just better.

They are (supposedly) bringing back the traditional start menu....It's just a question of if it will be another 8.1 update or if they'll wait till the next operating system, be it Windows 9 or whatever.

Edit: Which is due to be released about this time next year.

 

[c627627]

You guys make it sound as if real Start Menu / real Start Button would come at the expense of standard Metro minority of users today prefer?

Are we talking easy switchable choice or [one or the other but not both]?


Because if it is an easy switchable choice, then what does it matter what either one of us prefers?


The entire topic is about the Classic Shell approach: one click easy switch vs. the Sinofsky approach: Use my Metro or GTFO.

 

[Luke1978]

You guys make it sound as if real Start Menu / real Start Button would come at the expense of standard Metro minority of users today prefer?

Are we talking easy switchable choice or [one or the other but not both]?


Because if it is an easy switchable choice, then what does it matter what either one of us prefers?


The entire topic is about the Classic Shell approach: one click easy switch vs. the Sinofsky approach: Use my Metro or GTFO.

I'm all for switching (I wouldn't, but if you like Metro why shouldn't you be able to use it) I admit I have not (and didn't know about) ClassicShell. It should be native to windows as you've already said.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

I'm all for switching (I wouldn't, but if you like Metro why shouldn't you be able to use it) I admit I have not (and didn't know about) ClassicShell. It should be native to windows as you've already said.

But then you just have a Windows 7 install pretty much.

I dunno, Someone finds "Metro" useful.
I just think M$ pushed the tablet idea too hard in Windows 8, so they are lessening it's impact by doing this.

 

[c627627]

Well if I may, what do you mean "but then you..."?

The entire point is that you shouldn't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 but if you are installing from scratch, then you should go with Windows 8 because you can easily switch away from anything you don't like in Metro, but only if you choose. Otherwise the starting point of Windows 8 is Metro... for anyone who likes it and good for them that they do.

This should never be a discussion of what's better but about having a choice vs. not having it. Classic Shell simply gives us that choice and would have eliminated criticism of Windows 8 which forced Microsoft to now give people what they've been asking for since Windows 8 Beta - option for real start menu and real start button, while keeping Metro for those who like it.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Well if I may, what do you mean "but then you..."?

The entire point is that you shouldn't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8 but if you are installing from scratch, then you should go with Windows 8 because you can easily switch away from anything you don't like in Metro, but only if you choose. Otherwise the starting point of Windows 8 is Metro... for anyone who likes it and good for them that they do.

This should never be a discussion of what's better but about having a choice vs. not having it. Classic Shell simply gives us that choice and would have eliminated criticism of Windows 8 which forced Microsoft to now give people what they've been asking for since Windows 8 Beta - option for real start menu and real start button, while keeping Metro for those who like it.

Ahh. See? I missed that.

My bad, I never meant to start a Win 7 vs. Win 8 discussion.


And that does make sense, Install 8, if you hate Metro throw Classic Shell on there and you are good to go.

Thanks, c627627

 

[wingman99]

I don't like third party updates like Classic shell, because they have to be constantly updated to keep up with windows updates and they can dry up or come as a cost in the distant future. That is why I hope MS will fix up 8.1 so both party's will be happy with desktop and metro.

 

[pcgamer4life]

Why are people so obsessed with the start menu? Sure, I guess it's convenient, but using the search function (which is fast if indexed, and blazingly fast on an SSD even without indexing), you can launch literally any application much more quickly than navigating a clunky context menu.

Daily use programs get pinned to taskbar, everything else is launched via windows key + type a few letters and hit enter. It's how I've been using my OS since Vista and Server 2008, and would not have it any other way. If MS takes away my search bar, then I'll start a crusade, otherwise.. who cares? Haters gon' hate, I suppose. Change is bad, right?

Granted it would be nice to retain the start menu for the old folks that actually use it (yes I'm generalizing, but really, what computer-literate person needs it?!) and give users the option without third party tools. But lets all remember that the start menu has been around for 20 years, I don't blame them for wanting to take a different direction.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

Why are people so obsessed with the start menu? Sure, I guess it's convenient, but using the search function (which is fast if indexed, and blazingly fast on an SSD even without indexing), you can launch literally any application much more quickly than navigating a clunky context menu.

Granted it would be nice to retain the start menu for the old folks that actually use it (yes I'm generalizing, but really, what computer-literate person needs it?!) and give users the option without third party tools. But lets all remember that the start menu has been around for 20 years, I don't blame them for wanting to take a different direction.

The indexing functions is pretty broken in Windows 7 I find. Usually indexes 500 items when there is at least 300,000 items that could be indexed. Locate32 is my replacement.

As for the start-menu-for-old-people thing..... Well, I'm lost without a start menu -- Which is why I choose Win 7 over 8, or I'd need Classic Shell.

 

[petteyg359]

Why are people so obsessed with the start menu? Sure, I guess it's convenient, but using the search function (which is fast if indexed, and blazingly fast on an SSD even without indexing), you can launch literally any application much more quickly than navigating a clunky context menu.

Daily use programs get pinned to taskbar, everything else is launched via windows key + type a few letters and hit enter. It's how I've been using my OS since W7 and Server 2008, and would not have it any other way. If MS takes away my search bar, then I'll start a crusade, otherwise.. who cares? Haters gon' hate, I suppose. Change is bad, right?

Most people (AFAIK) aren't constantly spelling out every word they think. There's a mental context switch from "I'm looking for Firefox" to "How do I spell Firefox so I can type it in the search field?", and it is often quicker to fling the mouse around a bit to click the right icon with the right text than it is to switch the brain into spelling-bee mode and type out the application's name, especially when you might have to type out the whole thing, because you also have ffmpeg, Fraps, FakeFactory, Fallout, and FL Studio installed , recently edited several photos with "furniture" in the name, have a firewall, and were looking up information on various species of fir trees recently.

 

[wingman99]

Most people (AFAIK) aren't constantly spelling out every word they think. There's a mental context switch from "I'm looking for Firefox" to "How do I spell Firefox so I can type it in the search field?", and it is often quicker to fling the mouse around a bit to click the right icon with the right text than it is to switch the brain into spelling-bee mode and type out the application's name, especially when you might have to type out the whole thing, because you also have ffmpeg, Fraps, FakeFactory, Fallout, and FL Studio installed , recently edited several photos with "furniture" in the name, have a firewall, and were looking up information on various species of fir trees recently.

YES That is me, my spelling is not good at all and I have a hard time remerging things, windows 7 is So easy to find things you have not used for a while. like today I wanted to see for fun if my SSD makes browsing the internet faster, so I moved the temporary internet files to HDD then surfed the net for many hours going over the same pages and forms and my web browsing was just as fast using the HDD. The hard part was moving it back to the SSD that is where finding all the settings for folder options and move my files back-and-forth to have all my cookies and all my autocomplete information, so I did not have to start from scratch again with web usage.

Now all that I did today if I only had 8.1 metro, I would not know where to find all those browser setting and system settings.

Sure what I did today would of been fine with classic shell and using desktop browser however that is cheating if you love metro.

 

[c627627]

Cheating? To whom are we loyal here? The "enemy" here is whoever wishes to impose either Metro or the old ways... I hold shift when I press my custom Windows 8 (real) Start Button and I am in Metro - as simple as that.

Feel like "cheating" - just press Escape. Done.


Why choose one or the other, when you can have either of the two, quickly and easily? What is the down side there, other than what appears to be some sort of absence of "loyalty" to I don't know whom?

 

[mbentley]

For what it is worth, there are definitely still some things in Windows 8 that just aren't intuitive. I just re-imaged my wife's laptop (well, I actually made her do all the steps ) but she went with Windows 8.1 on it and things like shutting down the computer just aren't easy to find. She's not all that tech savvy but she just couldn't figure it out on her own. I ended up showing her alt+f4 from the desktop to get the more typical shutdown screen. But with that being said, she seemed like like to play with the tiles. I'm guessing it's because it looks like Pinterest

She's going to give the new interface a try but I let her know that there are alternatives if she didn't like it. I look forward to seeing how it goes. She is definitely the type of person who would click through the start menu to find a program and not do a Win + type for an application so we'll see if that changes.