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Z170 CLAIMED to be hacked to support Coffeelake

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With my G. Skill? Don't have to be lucky. My motherboard is on the QVL for at least 3866 MHz. Enable XMP and done. If it doesn't hit that speed an RMA fixes it. My RAM is purring along at 3733 MHz and its XMP was 3000 MHz. I had it stable at 4000 MHz, just didn't like the voltage. (vDIMM voltage being another area Intel stretched the truth recently).

edit: Have you looked at the numbers in my signature? I'm smoking every stock KL with Intel's "2666 MHz support". So they didn't produce anything with KL that wouldn't run on the power provided by any decent z170 motherboard.
 
wingman99 said:
The motherboard manufactures support overclocking 2666 on z270. On coffee lake Intel designed memory routing features to officially support DDR4-2666 MHz on all the 6 core processors without overclocking memory. The 4 core coffee lake officially supports 2400 still.

https://ark.intel.com/products/126687/Intel-Core-i5-8400-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_00-GHz
Click to expand...
So its like i just said earlier isn't it? They made it the JEDEC specification for the CPUs that support 2666.

Again, all Z270 boards can handle 2666 just fine be it overclocking or otherwise. The processor's base spec for (most) CL processors were raised.
 
Alaric said:
With my G. Skill? Don't have to be lucky. My motherboard is on the QVL for at least 3866 MHz. Enable XMP and done. If it doesn't hit that speed an RMA fixes it. My RAM is purring along at 3733 MHz and its XMP was 3000 MHz. I had it stable at 4000 MHz, just didn't like the voltage. (vDIMM voltage being another area Intel stretched the truth recently).
Click to expand...

I help far to many folks that have problems reaching a stable rated ram speed of the motherboard and memory, good to see how lucky you are.

Do you actually think if you try and RMA the motherboard they will test it at 3866 Mhz for you? I call all motherboard manufactures all the time to help folks and they will not test or help with overclock settings for you and anything from default is overclocking because it is not the Intel specification. QVL only means it has been tested to work and still is considered overclocking and they will not help you. Give a call for your self just for fun and ask the truth about memory overclocking to rated speed and the calls they get to explain there is no guarantee. Gigabyte phone 1-626-854-9338

It's a big world out there with Billions of Z boards and k processors.
 
EarthDog said:
So its like i just said earlier isn't it? They made it the JEDEC specification for the CPUs that support 2666.

Again, all Z270 boards can handle 2666 just fine be it overclocking or otherwise. The processor's base spec for (most) CL processors were raised.
Click to expand...
Intel did not say anything about JEDEC, however they would have to work with them if it is not XMP overclocking. What memory sold is SPD JEDEC 2400, 2666,? I'm just sticking to the facts I know.

I don't know 100% if every kaby lake, Z270 motherboard in the world will run 2666. There must be a reason for Intel's specifications?

Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (Intel® XMP) and Overclock RAM
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html
 
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Yes. Intel upped their base spec on most CL cpus to 2666 from 2400 in KL. This is now the base/jedec spec for the platform.

That doesnt change the fact that z270 boards, all of them, will run 2666. Yes, it defaults to 2400 its base spec for compatibilty, but those z270 boards can all easily handle 2666+ when asked.

Why do you seem to think z270 doesnt support 2666? You have z170 and 3200mhz ram...following your thinking, that shouldnt be either...






EDIT: ok... i reached out to someone more in the know and got some details... :)

That bullet point in the intel slide is talking about a change in topology. CL cpus now use a t-topology instead of sequential. That said, just because the topology switched doesn't mean KL cannot support 2666 speeds. There is plenty of headroom for that.

As far as board specs...intels min spec has to be sufficient for all chips and over a long time. So that value is conservative by nature. Mobo ratings are w/e the vendor wants them to be making additional decisions above and beyond intel specfications. DDR4 3600 and less compatibility or ddr4 2666 for all encompassing? You can see why intel chooses the latter i am sure.

I was incorrect for mentioning jedec in all of this (though it will match the timings), but my point was still correct :). Hopefully that helps shed some light on how that works. The sequential topology in KL, all z270 boards, will easily run 2666. The T-topology by itself was not what made it so, but is a part of it. Sequtential topology could still easily handle it. Again, just a topology change. So yes, wires are different, but KL can still easily support 2666.


EDIT2:
Memory Support on Coffee Lake

With a new processor generation comes an update to memory support. There is always a small amount of confusion here about what Intel calls ‘official memory support’ and what the processors can actually run. Intel’s official memory support is typically a guarantee, saying that in all circumstances, with all processors, this memory speed should work. However motherboard manufacturers might offer speeds over 50% higher in their specification sheets, which Intel technically counts as an overclock.

This is usually seen as Intel processors having a lot of headroom to be conservative, avoid RMAs, and maintain stability. In most cases this is usually a good thing: there are only a few niche scenarios where super high-speed memory can equate to tangible performance gains* but they do exist.
Click to expand...
 
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EarthDog said:
Yes. Intel upped their base spec on most CL cpus to 2666 from 2400 in KL. This is now the base/jedec spec for the platform.

That doesnt change the fact that z270 boards, all of them, will run 2666. Yes, it defaults to 2400 its base spec for compatibilty, but those z270 boards can all easily handle 2666+ when asked.

Why do you seem to think z270 doesnt support 2666? You have z170 and 3200mhz ram...following your thinking, that shouldnt be either...






EDIT: ok... i reached out to someone more in the know and got some details... :)

That bullet point in the intel slide is talking about a change in topology. CL cpus now use a t-topology instead of sequential. That said, just because the topology switched doesn't mean KL cannot support 2666 speeds. There is plenty of headroom for that.

As far as board specs...intels min spec has to be sufficient for all chips and over a long time. So that value is conservative by nature. Mobo ratings are w/e the vendor wants them to be making additional decisions above and beyond intel specfications. DDR4 3600 and less compatibility or ddr4 2666 for all encompassing? You can see why intel chooses the latter i am sure.

I was incorrect for mentioning jedec in all of this (though it will match the timings), but my point was still correct :). Hopefully that helps shed some light on how that works. The sequential topology in KL, all z270 boards, will easily run 2666. The T-topology by itself was not what made it so, but is a part of it. Sequtential topology could still easily handle it. Again, just a topology change. So yes, wires are different, but KL can still easily support 2666.


EDIT2:
Click to expand...

Thanks for reaching out for the information.:)I was also correct Intel mad changes with coffee lake motherboard memory routing on the Z370. I was not inferring that Kaby lake can not run 2666 on all Z270 motherboard, it just that I don't see large sample of that clock speed and faster in the forums to gather any real statics on tolerance of memory speed consistency. So I reached out to 3 memory manufactures and they don't see problems with Intel running overclocked 2666, however do see Ryzen problems at that speed.

Other interesting facts from the memory manufactures are memory and CPU IMC is overclocked when running from default. The JEDEC is the default speed of the memory module anything above that with XMP is overclocking the memory modules and I asked how the memory is binned for XMP, they do it in house with extensive testing. So those are the reasons why they call it memory overclocking. There is 3 possible memory overclocking failure points CPU, motherboard and memory.

From my small sample of being in the forums everyday I see a lot of memory not reaching the tested XMP speeds. One member in this forum last year tried 3 kits of the same G.SKILL memory and the fourth kit all sticks ran at the tested speed.
 
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What you may have lost in all this is the topology doesnt matter at this speed. Intel could have made CL with 2666 as base and and left the sequential topology. So, yes, they did move wires around, but it doesnt really matter this slow. The higher end does matter. ;)

Yeah, ive heard that before but, for all intents and purposes, its hard to consider xmp overclocking when everything from the website to the package says its rated to run at that speed. There is literally no way to find out the actual speed of the ics without reaching out to mfg. We know the imc is overclocked, but ill be damned if i ever call xmp overclocking the ram. Its RATED to run that speed out of the box. It doesnt say 2133 mhz /xmp 3600. Just says 3600.

So long as you are not overbuying memory for the platform, reaching xmp speeds/timings should rarely be an issue.
 
EarthDog said:
What you may have lost in all this is the topology doesnt matter at this speed. Intel could have made CL with 2666 as base and and left the sequential topology. So, yes, they did move wires around, but it doesnt really matter this slow. The higher end does matter. ;)

Yeah, ive heard that before but, for all intents and purposes, its hard to consider xmp overclocking when everything from the website to the package says its rated to run at that speed. There is literally no way to find out the actual speed of the ics without reaching out to mfg. We know the imc is overclocked, but ill be damned if i ever call xmp overclocking the ram. Its RATED to run that speed out of the box. It doesnt say 2133 mhz /xmp 3600. Just says 3600.

So long as you are not overbuying memory for the platform, reaching xmp speeds/timings should rarely be an issue.
Click to expand...
I know low speed XMP should run fine without topology. Just my point is that Intel did the topology for a reason?

Rated speed is incorrect if you look at G.SKILL and some other memory manufactures specification, it does not say RATED it says"TESTED SPEED" XMP memory is overclocked from the base speed. Wen I looked earlier today actually it does say 2133 or 2400 SPD speed /xmp 3200. As far as I'm concerned rated IC's would be far better then testing them for binned memory overclocking, that is my point.

Specification http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c14d-16gtz

Specification https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/HX432C16PB3K2_16.pdf

XMP overclocking can be a issue for stability also because the IMC is not tested for overclocking stability. G.SKILL notes. Rated XMP frequency & stability depends on MB & CPU capability.
 
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I have always been told DDR3 over 1600 MHz is overclocked and DDR4 2133 MHz is (was?) the standard. That's what all my software reads on memory. Hardware Monitor shows it that way and Thaiphoon Burner shows DDR4-2133 MHz.
SSR4 2133.JPG
 
Lol, I just. Dont. Care. :rofl:

If all sticks are 2133/2400, then EVERYTHING is overclocked above that. Even though its binned and sent out of the factory at speeds its guaranteed to run at...with packaging and websites saying its xxxx... good times we live in... :rofl:

EDIT: Is every CPU overclocked? I mean, they all come from one wafer, right? so is every CPU except for the slowest bin overclocked? That doesn't make sense... we don't call them overclocked, they just have different speeds and bins and come out of the factory as different SKUs. Memory is a similar concept.
 
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I'm confused lol.

does this mean my vengeance ddr4 lp 2100 isn't actually 2100 but say 1800 that's oc to 2100 or its says 2400 downclocked to 2100?

sorry for hijack
 
The base spec for ddr4 memory ic's are 2133 or 2400. It is not less. Ddr3 was 1600 or 1333 iirc. Regardless, whatever the heck it says on the package they are rated to run at and stock for those sticks, regardless of the underlying ic's speed.

See what taiphoon burner says if you really care to know. It takes 3rd party apps to get the info.

(This confusion is another byproduct of considering anything above 2133/2400 overclocked, lol)
 
ok thanks I did that..wish I hadn't I'm even more confused..think ill just stick to what I know and leave the rest to you guys lol,off to buy some 3200 :)
 
Its for the best... and why i despise having this conversation. It seems to come up every couple of years and, in the end, i just. Dont. Care. that the ics are 2133. Box says 3200, they are 3200... they arent overclocked until past that, lol! Forget intel marketing touting xmp as overclocking...the only thing overclocked is the IMC. Not the sticks.
 
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