Need 5-10MHz More from E8400 + UD3P

I'm having trouble squeezing a little more out of my CPU/Mobo. I've tried increasing vCore and NB voltage, but it seems to have quit helping. I'm hoping what's happening is that the "Auto" setting on NB Ref, Vtt, PLL, and CPU Ref is overvolting and giving me trouble (See EasyTune screenshot). So, hopefully with some guidance from you guys I can get those voltages set up and reach 4.5GHz.

As for the NB Ref, Vtt, PLL, and CPU Ref, I don't really know a lot about them. Is there a "guideline" to follow when setting them or just trial and error? Are their values based on FSB frequency? Are their values related to each other (Ex. % of some other voltage)?

Here's what I've found out about those voltages (gathered from multiple sources):

CPU/FSB Termination Voltage (Vtt): P4x Chipset: 1.14v-1.26v, 1.2v Typical, 1.45v Max (Intel E7xxx/8xxx Datasheet)
Source -> Line -> Component -> Short line -> Termination
The "lines" in this case are signal traces. High speed switching operations can cause reflections on the
line (in essence, this is resonant noise caused from high-speed switching on the lines as the memory
controller gates on and off to place data on the bus, nothing more than rising and falling voltages).
clearly enough, the faster the signal switches (higher frequency memory) the more noise. So to compensate
for noise and reflection as the NB voltage and FSB frequency is raised so to must be the FSB Termination
voltage be raised to mirror the NB voltage increase and the Frequency increase. This will in effect smooth
the ripple effect caused by increasing on end and not the other.

VTT is the termination voltage for data lines used to interface the MCH with the CPU die(s) via the Front
Side Bus. Higher values can provide additional FSB overclocking margin, especially with 45nm dual-core
processors and quad-cores CPUs in general. We have never found any additional gains to be had above 1.36
when using air- or water-cooling. Setting Auto should default to 1.10V for 45nm CPUs and 1.20V for 65nm
CPUs.

CPU PLL Voltage (Vccpll): 1.425v-1.575v, 1.50v Typical (Intel E7xxx/8xxx Datasheet)
As FSB and other frequency adjustments are made and termination settings adjusted to compensate for
noise in the voltage lines the CPU PLL may become out of balance. To compensate for higher FSB overclocks
the PLL voltage must be adjusted upward accordingly. This is a hit or miss adjustment which will require
fine tuning.

Selecting a higher PLL (phase lock-loop) voltage may help the installed CPU clock higher or may assist with
maintaining stability when operating at higher FSB speeds. Most users will find they do not need to set this
to anything above 1.50. Exercise caution when experimenting with higher values as there have been reported
cases of CPUs losing cores after being subjected to voltages in excess of about 2.00V.

CPU Ref, MCH Ref, and MCH/DRAM Ref (Voltage References):
A voltage reference is an electronic device (circuit or component) that produces a fixed (constant) voltage
regardless of the loading on the device, power supply variation, and temperature. It is also known as a
voltage source, but in the strict sense of the term, a voltage reference often sits at the heart of a voltage
source. The distinction between a voltage reference and a voltage source is, however, rather blurred
especially as electronic devices continue to improve in terms of tolerance and stability. All voltage across
the motherboard can potentially droop, so setting the refrence high helps eliminate load droop or noise. This
will likely only help you under extreme overclocking stability and should normally be set to auto.

Click to expand...

Here's my Excel sheet with the settings I've tried:
NOTES: Green means it passed IntelBurnTest; B vCore = BIOS; I vCore = Idle; L vCore = Load; Strap = FSB/NB Strap (MHz); Running a 1:1 FSB:RAM ratio


My ideal OC would be 8.5x533MHz, 8.5x530MHz would be great, and 9x500MHz wouldn't be too bad either

Thanks in advance.

Matt

I started trial and error with the Vtt and PLL. I chose to set the Vtt at 1.44 and PLL at 1.61 and work my way up to what the "Auto" setting uses, which is 1.6 Vtt and 1.85 PLL.

I used EasyTune 6 to tune voltages while in the OS, which turned out to be a BAD idea.

IntelBurnTest would pass when I was at 8.5x525MHz, 1.3625v vCore, 1.36v NB, and Vtt/PLL on "Auto" in the BIOS (1.6/1.85).

Using EasyTune, I set Vtt to 1.44 and PLL to 1.61 and started increasing Vtt one 0.02 increment at a time. Between 1.44-1.6 Vtt IntelBurn test failed everytime. Since Vtt was at 1.6 when on "Auto" and passed, I assumed PLL was too low. So, I kept Vtt at 1.6 and increased PLL one 0.02 increment at a time, and between 1.61-1.85 IntelBurnTest failed every time.

SO, when Vtt and PLL are set to 1.6 and 1.85 via "Auto" BIOS setting it passes. When they're set to 1.6 and 1.85 via EasyTune it fails. Then, I went into the BIOS and manually set them to 1.6 and 1.85 and it PASSED...

So, my conclusion is EasyTune isn't good for voltage tweaking...

Now, I have to go through all of those increments again, but in the BIOS...

I'm still getting when trying for 8.5x530MHz or 9x500MHz...

I'm open to ANY suggestions/advice...

An E8400 at 4.463GHz is nothing to sneeze at. How are the temps with that much voltage? You might have to bump up the Vcore to get past this.

I've been using IntelBurnTest for testing since it's quicker. The bad thing is that the temps are much higher with it, so usually in the mid 80s if I add more voltage. I'll run ORTHOS for around 15mins or so to get more realistic temps.

MattNo5ss said:

I'm still getting when trying for 8.5x530MHz or 9x500MHz...

I'm open to ANY suggestions/advice...

Click to expand...

500fsb is pretty nasty in itself,, if you have 4 sticks of ram in try just two to see if less load on the NB will help. At that speed everything becomes a factor; ram timings, NB VOLTAGE, and cpu voltage.

Not many boards out there will do 500fsb without giving a fuss,, even P45's.

turbohans said:

500fsb is pretty nasty in itself,, if you have 4 sticks of ram in try just two to see if less load on the NB will help. At that speed everything becomes a factor; ram timings, NB VOLTAGE, and cpu voltage.

Not many boards out there will do 500fsb without giving a fuss,, even P45's.

Click to expand...

I only have two RAM sticks. I passed IBT @ 8.5x525MHz with 1.36vNB and 9x490MHz with 1.30vNB. I've tried NB voltage up to 1.46v (0.02v increments), but it didn't seem to help get that extra 5-10MHz...think I may need more? What about the Vtt, PLL, and Refs? I don't really know where to begin with those, I've just been slowly testing them one by one...

---

Okay, 4.463GHz @ 8.5x525MHz 1.3625v (BIOS) 1.328v (CPU-Z) gives me 81C in IBT and 63C in a 16min ORTHOS Small FFT run. So, an 18C difference.

Short term (< 5min) high temps wouldn't hurt a CPU would it? I was thinking of getting an IBT max temp of (desired temps) + 18C, if it wouldn't damage anything. So, if I wanted 75C to be my max temp, then I wouldn't let IBT get higher than 93C.

I've pushed the E5200 on my bro's system and it got to 99C in IBT and it's still working fine...

This will help you out. I did not have to use more than 1.36 vcore with my E8500. Here my chip likes 0.750 for vtt/1.28 or vtt1.20 mch ref 0.700.and cpu ref at 0.76 for vtt1.20



MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster .................: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio .........................: 9x
Fine CPU Clock Ratio.....................:.0
CPU Frequency ...........................:4500
Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control...................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ................:500
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .............:100
C.I.A. 2.................................: Disabled

Advanced Clock Control:
CPU Clock Drive..........................:800
PCI Express Clock Drive..................:900
CPU Clock Skew (ps)......................:0
MCH Clock Skew (ps)......................: 0

DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance......................:turbo
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)..........: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...................:333
System Memory Multiplier ................: 2.40B
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..................:1200

DRAM Timing Selectable ..................: [Manual]
Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.........................:5
tRCD ....................................: 5
tRP'.....................................: 4-5
tRAS.....................................:12-15

Advanced Timing Control:
tRRD.....................................: Auto
tWTR.....................................: Auto
tWR......................................: Auto
tRFC.....................................: 30
tRTP.....................................: Auto
Command Rate (CMD) ......................: Auto

Channel A Timings Settings:
Static tRead Value.......................: 8
tRD Phase0 Adjustment....................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment....................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment ...................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment....................: Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)...................: Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto
DDR2 Write Training......................: Auto

Channel A Driving Settings:
Driving Strength Profile.................: Auto
Data Driving Pull-Up Level...............: Auto
Cmd Driving Pull-Up Level................: Auto
Ctrl Driving Pull-Up Level...............: Auto
Clk Driving Pull-Up Level................: Auto

Data Driving Pull-Down Level.............: Auto
Cmd Driving Pull-Down Level..............: Auto
Ctrl Driving Pull-Down Level.............: Auto
Clk Driving Pull-Down Level..............: Auto

Channel B Timings Settings:
Static tRead Value.......................: 8
tRD Phase0 Adjustmen.....................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment....................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment ...................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment....................: Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)...................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)...................: Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control.................: Auto
DDR2 Write Training......................: Auto

Channel B Driving Settings:
Driving Strength Profile.................: Auto
Data Driving Pull-Up Level...............: Auto
Cmd Driving Pull-Up Level................: Auto
Ctrl Driving Pull-Up Level...............: Auto
Clk Driving Pull-Up Level................: Auto

Data Driving Pull-Down Level.............: Auto
Cmd Driving Pull-Down Level..............: Auto
Ctrl Driving Pull-Down Level.............: Auto
Clk Driving Pull-Down Level..............: Auto

Motherboard Voltage Control
Loadline Calibration.....................: enabled
CPU Vcore................1.250V*.........:1.35
CPU Termination......... 1.200V*.........:1.28
CPU PLL..................1.500V*.........:1.57
CPU Referen..............0.760V*.........:normal
MCH/ICH
MCH Core.................1.100V..........:1.38
MCH Reference............0.760V..........:0.750
MCH/DRAM Ref.............0.900V..........:normal
ICH I/O..................1.500V..........:normal
ICH Core.................1.100V..........: normal
DRAM
DRAM Voltage.............1.800V..........:2.10-2.12
DRAM Termination.........0.900V..........:normal
Channel A Reference......0.900V..........:normal
Channel B Reference......0.900V..........:normal