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First for me: PSU and Battery Back Up underpowered.

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dec 15, 2008
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At idle, I'm around half that power consumption. That is also with two monitors that kicks the GPU up to 3D clocks and a horse for a board (Asus Omega).

I'm just amazed that your air cooler is able to handle that voltage. I have a custom loop with a 3x120mm radiator on it... lol

I need to run an offset for anything 512... since hardly anything uses it, I don't bother. So when testing like this comes around, I'm a bit lost. I'll assume I need to lower that to 4GHz or less, lol.
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Joined
Feb 22, 2009
I appreciate it ED. Considering you peaked 555 at the wall, that's pretty much on par with what I have seen at that voltage (in other videos and write ups). Something else is wonky here. Could be my Kill-a-watt, but that wouldn't explain the shutting down. Like I said, I ordered a 1000w PSU, we will see how that does. If I am in fact drawing that much, there has to be something wrong with my system and only under load. At idle, I am only at 220W.

Not that I intentionally plan to run my PC 24/7 at 4.7, but I "should" be able to with my CPU staying below 95. I also know that 1.4 is excessive for every day, but it isn't breaking the rules either.

Edit: I will be pulling out the amp clamp to check the power supply input amperage and the voltages. I want to see what they are pulling. If the KAW is correct, I should be seeing about 75 amps @12V being pulled from the PSU.

I will also check individual power draw of the fans/gpu. While I find it hard to believe, a fan could still be pulling 3 amps (my San Ace Denki) if it is good, more if it is bad.

I just got to thinking this morning. Since, I can't sustain the overclock for more than 5 seconds or so, I wonder of the possibility the voltage I am seeing is the inrush current. An inrush could be 1/3 greater than the operating amp draw. Since I can't run for more than about 10 seconds, I really don't see what the draw levels off at. Since most computer draws are rated far below a PSU's capability, I think I might have just fallen into a worse case scenario. One where my usage is around 600, but my inrush spike overwhelms my PSU during extreme overclocking. I have only read about this like on Kingpin's site where they install big beefy PSUs.

https://www.sapphirenation.net/power-supply-know-part-iii

Just a thought. In theory, maybe if I install 1000W, the PSU will spike to 900 but drop back down to 600ish.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
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Typically (from my limited knowledge, note) those inrush currents are split-second type things and when you power on the PSU, not from the system taking power. This isn't my wheelhouse, but the article you linked says this...

After you plug the PSU into the power socket and turn on the power, the power draw spikes briefly. The PFC capacitor(s) are loaded during this process. And if the power draw is too high, it may trip the circuit breakers in your house.

If I had to guess, perhaps you're seeing OCP kick in or something? No clue. AFAIK, that is an immediate off situation when you go past OCP/OVP, etc.
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Typically (from my limited knowledge, note) those inrush currents are split-second type things and when you power on the PSU, not from the system taking power. This isn't my wheelhouse, but the article you linked says this...



If I had to guess, perhaps you're seeing OCP kick in or something? No clue. AFAIK, that is an immediate off situation when you go past OCP/OVP, etc.

Correct, inrush is typically only a split second for smaller loads, but for heavier loads it can be for seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current#:~:text=The inrush may be as,of 500 watts or more.

That said, whenever this problem happens, I only see it spike at 900+Watts before turning off the computer (split seconds). So I can't really say the PC is drawing 900 Watts, I can only say it spiked at 900-1000 watts.

When I have been successful at a lower overclock with much lower voltages ~1.15-1.2V range, I have a max persistent draw of 800-850W during Cinebench or when I run OCCT with small FFTS (where I am successful).

Unlike you, I run AVX and AVX-512 at 0, 0 respectively.

When I get home, I will try and set my AVX to something like 5 or 6 and see if that makes a difference.

Also, if that does make a difference, what kind of load we are talking about.

I still think that 800W is more than everyone else, so there might be something there, BUT not everyone who I have watched/read up on, lists their AVX settings (as is with most settings unless I watch it directly like Lummi). So I may be comparing Apples with Oranges, not knowing exact settings.

As for my temperatures, I posted an actual screenshot each time. As you can see, my max temp @4700Mhz and 1.4V after 45 min. was 100 degrees Celsius on my 17th core with all others below 97. At 4600 Mhz and 1.325V, they vary between ~73-86 degrees.

I am running a Noctua DH-D15S with two 140mm, 3000 rpm Noctua NF-A14 iPPC-3000 and a Sanyo Denki San Ace 6000RPM as an exhaust case fan. I have liquid metal applied on a non-delided cpu.

Everything I have read (over and over) Stock vs. Stock, any 360 AIO has a hard time keeping up with a Stock DH-D15S (
), otherwise I would have switched already. Mine is not stock and does a great job. If I were to ever upgrade my cooler, It would have to be a dual radiator setup or a Icebear, or something equivalent.
Even Gamer's Nexus is using stock 1500 RPM fans vs. EVGA CLC 360 with 2460RPM Fans for a difference of about 8 degrees. Kraken x62 is marginally better at stock, but to me temperatures in general have a great many variations. I have read a great many websites and asked a lot of questions. GN just does a good Nutshell review (and I respect his reviews).

I am confident that a Noctua DH-D15s is as good as any cooler on the market. Add some high quality fans and its as good as any AIO and almost any cheap water loop. No disrespect to water cooling, but for the cost and maintenance, Noctua will ensure there will always be Air cooling.
 

EarthDog

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I've got a fully custom water loop with a top-ranked block...not an AIO or some rigged setup. Our temps should at least be comparable. That is arguably the best air cooler, but, custom water like this shouldn't have any problems being close (closer than what it feels like I am). :thup:

Perhaps the initial spike is just pushing OCP... who knows... well out of my pervue. :chair: :D
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Feb 22, 2009
I've got a fully custom water loop with a top-ranked block...not an AIO or some rigged setup. Our temps should at least be comparable. That is arguably the best air cooler, but, custom water like this shouldn't have any problems being close (closer than what it feels like I am). :thup:

Perhaps the initial spike is just pushing OCP... who knows... well out of my pervue. :chair: :D

I wish I had a custom water loop, but I am a cheapie OCer. Every video that I have watched, every spec I have read, every review that I have watched has indicated that you really are limited by the size of the radiator. If you are running a 360 (I am assuming copper, since its high end) then you are pretty much at the top of the food chain. You are probably seeing AT BEST a 5-10 degree improvement over a Noctua. Assuming you don't like noise, you are using 1500 RPM fans, then yeah my noisy fans are what help me make up some ground. I'll never say a custom water loop doesn't do a better job, but I will say that cost/performance and maintenance/performance , I'll take the Noctua.

I have lately been researching a Ncase M1, with ASRock X299E-ITX/AC, and a custom 280 radiator with bitspower block or maybe an AIO. The thought of throwing all of my other components away pains me.

I would have to buy a SFX PSU, I would be limiting my OC to almost stock, I'd have to maintain it, buy SODIMMS, and more. It just isn't worth it. I like power on a budget. I am probably looking at $2000 just to do it. Nah, I'm good.

I feel like I have stolen something valuable when I buy a CPU and gain 25%+ performance out of it.

I'll update the thread as I find anything.
 

EarthDog

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Im with you... I use $4 Yate Loon fans (DS12H IIRC). The radiator is a Swiftech 3x120mm something or other. It's no slouch, but def. done with a budget in mind. The block, a Kuplex Kryos NEXT, was a pricey (review) item. lol

Easy was never a part of custom cooling loops, hence the advent of AIOs. But those who are watercooling are generally looking for better performance or less noise or better performance for less noise. :)

EDIT:

GN... that air cooler loses out to the Kraken by a couple of C... listen to the tech jebus. :p:thup:
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Feb 22, 2009
Im with you... I use $4 Yate Loon fans (DS12H IIRC). The radiator is a Swiftech 3x120mm something or other. It's no slouch, but def. done with a budget in mind. The block, a Kuplex Kryos NEXT, was a pricey (review) item. lol

Easy was never a part of custom cooling loops, hence the advent of AIOs. But those who are watercooling are generally looking for better performance or less noise or better performance for less noise. :)

EDIT:

GN... that air cooler loses out to the Kraken by a couple of C... listen to the tech jebus. :p:thup:

Oh, I am not saying the Noctua is #1, not by a longshot. Clearly water cooling has it beat....by a few degrees.

There are a lot of variables that can even the playing field. Ambient temps, Fan design, and case design. For the most part, all things being equal the 280s can beat the Noctua by 2-8 degrees delta.

Kraken x72 does well too, but still only within a few degrees.

Also, keep in mind those temperatures he is referring to aren't anywhere close to the temps I get while Benching.

Tech Jesus doesn't leave anything out!
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Feb 22, 2009
For the record, I backed my OC all the way out to stock.

I started bring up the voltage at 1.0V and 3200Mhz. Once I arrived at 4.0, I changed to override voltage of 1.010V.

When I got to 4200Mhz, I raised to 1.1V and stayed there until 1.1 and 4500Mhz.

The entire time I was prime95 stable small FFTs with a Kill-a-watt draw of ~760 on the low end and ~798 on the upper end.

Once I got to 4600 Mhz, I crashed on Cinebench R20, so I raised my OC to 1.125 then 1.135 then 1.150. Each time I was unable to run P95 for more than 4 seconds before crashing.

I am running a 3 offset for AVX and during P95 heat is a problem, It throttles two of my cores and I hit the 100s.

I am going to stop right here until I get a bigger PSU to be sure. at 4500Mhz I was able to hit 10145 on CB R20, which is within error of my best scores regardless of the clock. Its also a much better overclock because my voltages are at 1.1V and stable.

At this point, the 1000Watt PSU will confirm my theory and either I will keep it and RMA my 850, or return the 1000Watt.
 

EarthDog

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A better PSU isn't going to hurt, period. You're already hitting 100C at your current voltage and power draw, so I'm entirely sure what that's going to do outside of peace of mind (which is totally worth it, to be clear). Setting a higher 512 offset could help.. :thup:
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Update:

Disabling AVX offset in P95 levels things out. I am back at 690 watts. Overclock is sitting at 4700MHz @ 1.2V and stable with temps below at or below 100 during P95.

The temperatures for Prime are still hot, but AVX is unusable at a overclock higher than 4.5 and 1.1V.

AVX is a ***** and should have a setting to turn it off for people that don't use it. Even setting an offset does little to help this.

After watching a video from Buildzoid, he definitely recommends against using it while overclocking.
 

EarthDog

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Some (many?) boards do have the option to disable that. You can in the latest of P95 too. And its AVX-512 that really kills it. AVX/AVX2 isn't as bad. I leave that enabled for all my personal stress testing.
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Feb 22, 2009
Ok,

So I wanted to come back and update this thread.

- My power supply is not bad, but it is borderline maxed. Upgrading to 1000W was going to be necessary if and when I get a newer GPU.

- It took a lot of research and reading, but the problem boiled down to my uncore speed. I had it set to values of 30-32 trying to stabilize a RAM overclock, but I didn't walk it in.

- I found out when I kept trying to run y-cruncher and it would cause my screen to crash. This didn't happen on default settings. When I only raised my CPU overclock and voltages, it still didn't crash using y-cruncher.

- When I eventually upgraded my ram, I was reading about uncore speed/voltages and in an attempt to stabilize my ram speed, I lowered my Uncore from 30 to 24 and my crashes of y-cruncher stopped.

- Now that my system doesn't immediately crash at high overclocks I was able to sort more of the problem out.

1) P95 for me at 4.8 and 1.225V is stable, but throttles. My temps vary across the CPU from 94 degrees to 104 degrees.
2) Total Wattage draw for my system is 812-856W at the plug.
3) The system spikes when starting up a high work load in the neighborhood of 920W. This causes the APC to beep until the voltage levels out (about 3 seconds).
4) My cooling solution is good, but not 4.8 good under P95 kind of stress. For every day it would be ok, but I would have to dial it back for high work loads. This would keep it under 100 degrees, with idle temps of 48 degrees (at Noctua fan speeds of 2000rpms) and 60 degrees at (Noctua fan speeds of 700 rpms)
5) It is probably time for me to upgrade to a water cooling solution, but I dread the cost/maintenance and my HAF XB doesn't really support a 360-420mm solution, so I would have to go external.


TLDR; my uncore was the culprit
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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...but it does fit 2(3?)x120/140s. ;)

Glad you found the issue. You've got a decent chip there. :)
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

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Feb 22, 2009
...but it does fit 2(3?)x120/140s. ;)

Glad you found the issue. You've got a decent chip there. :)

I could probably fit a 280 CLC. A 280 may not provide any better cooling than my Noctua. Looking at Gamer's Nexus reviews, it might net me 2-3 degrees. I would need at least 10 degrees to make it worth my while. That would probably mean a 360. Not a worthwhile endeavor.
 

EarthDog

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Sadly, I think you can only fit a 240 up front. Up top is that 200mm thing so you can't put 2x 120mm rads there. :(

You're right, an AIO isn't a worthwhile improvement.