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First Timer - Have high temps

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Aqualoon

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
First off, hello everyone. I'm new to these forums and came here as I need some help figuring this out. I will be basically copying and pasting everything from a thread on a different forum so if the formatting is off some or if any info is left out I'll get that put in there right away.

Since I'm doing the copy/paste thing from another forum it will go in order from oldest to newest post. This starts about 2 weeks ago.

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Loop Order: Rad --> CPU --> Res --> Pump --> Rad
Block: Swiftech Apogee HD
Radiator: XSPC EX240
Flow: Good (Have a spin bay res and the flow meter is spinning hard/fast)

CPU: i7 860 @ 4.0GHz 1.36v

Initial Mount w/Tuniq TX-3
Idle: 36-32-34-34
Load: 76-77-78-80

2nd Mount w/PK-1
Idle: 36-32-35-34
Load: 80-74-72-78

The loop has been up and running in the current case since Wednesday. Prior to that it has been up and running in a different case for 2 weeks. When it was in it's other case the temps were worse but I expect that since I had to lay the rad on top of the case. Also in the other case I only had the chip at 3.8GHz.

I have it currently setup as an exhaust instead of an intake. I know that better temps are achieved as an intake but from my searching around and reading it should only effect the temps by a few degrees.

Currently I only have the GTX 460 in the case, so there really isn't much heat in the case right now.

More Info:
Tubing size is 3/8" ID 5/8" OD
Fan setup is 120mm front intake, 140mm bottom intake, 120mm back exhaust, 2x140mm top exhaust.

Update #1
I haven't remounted yet, I did just try a push/pull setup as exhaust and it did bring the temps down a little bit. Not as much as I would have expected though, I'm getting similar temps to when I had my H50 which isn't making me all that happy.

PnP Temps
Idle: 36-32-34-33
Load: 76-70-69-77

Update #2
Walked away from the PC to go watch a movie and came back to lower idle temps so decided to test load temps (see below). While these are getting lower they are still in line with the H50 I ran. I was hoping to see load temps with a 1.36v in the 50s as I wanted to push close to v1.4v to try to get my chip up to 4.5GHz.

Idle: 33-28-31-30
Load: 72-69-68-74

The next step I'm going to take is to try a pull as intake on the top. If I want to try a push as intake I'd have to drain the entire loop, which I will do if the pull doesn't work. This will have to be done at a later time I'm afraid. I knew the push as exhaust wasn't the best setup but I never thought I'd be seeing these temps. Really disappointed thus far.

Update #3

I remounted my CPU and used Indigo Xtreme. At stock clocks my temps are as follows (1.056v)

Idle: 30-23-27-24
Load: 54-46-49-47

For stock voltage, does that seem high to anyone else?

Update #4

Alright, spent 7 hours on Saturday night redoing my loop. I messed up the install of the Indigo Xtreme (which may be why my temps from Update #3 are high on load for stock voltage?). After doing some googling I read that on this install that while it says that the pump must not be connected, that water has to be present in the loop - so basically if you're doing a new loop install (which is what I did) you need to run your loop and THEN unplug the pump and THEN run the burn in phase. I have one install of this left and I'm unsure of if I want to use it right away or not.

Changed up the loop order a bit as from my reading around on a single CPU loop order doesn't matter all that much as long as the rad is before the block. Now running pump --> res --> rad --> block --> then back to pump

redoneloop.jpg

Here is how my setup now looks - I am very pleased with the looks. However...I'm thinking of mounting that 120mm rad to the bottom fan there. It's a 140mm ran but I could put a 120mm fan there or just get another 140-120 adapter. I'm just not sure if there is enough room down there for a rad...I mean it does look kinda tight fit on that bottom fan.

Update #5

Came home for lunch to remount the water block because I messed up the install of the Indigo Xtreme and this is really starting to bother me. This time around I used Shin Etsu thermal compound because I only have one install left of the Indigo and I wanted to test things out a bit first.

Also this time around I didn't crank down the water block as tight as I have in all previous mountings thinking that maybe I was over tightening the block and that was causing my poor temps.

Idle: 32-27-29-27
Load: 52-48-48-50

So comparing the above temps with Update #3 in my previous post, idle temps were high across the board in this mounting. Load temps were about the same (some cores were lower a couple of degrees while other cores were higher a couple of degrees).

Keep in mind my i7 860 is still at stock settings.

Are my expectations unrealistic? I was hoping for mid 40s load on stock settings and then with my OC mid 60s load.

---

So that's it on the copy/paste bit.

The rad was flushed prior to install with distilled water, flow is rockin as I have a flow meter on my res and it's a white blur. I am a first time water cooler but have been building systems for 6ish years now so it's not the first time I have mounted a heat sink before. Since the flow is good, and because they're new parts and they were flushed prior to use I don't think there is any gunk build up any where.

Prior to this I was running an H50 PnP setup with my chip at 3.8GHz @1.34v and getting high 70s on load across all cores. I upgraded to this setup as I wanted to cross 4.0GHz and throw 1.4v at my chip to see what it could do.
 

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
You will never get 40's load at idle. My i7 930 right now is idling at 27-32 with a GTX360 with 3 AFB1212VHE's on it (running at about 8-9v right now). Heat transfer out of the CPU just isn't that good, especially on the 1156 stuff, because they used glue, not solder, to connect the cores to the IHS.
 
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Aqualoon

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
I think I may not have done a good job in retaining info in the copy/paste.

Stock i7 860 Temps 2.8GHz @ 1.056v

First Mount
Idle: 30-23-27-24
Load: 54-46-49-47

Second Mount
Idle: 32-27-29-27
Load: 52-48-48-50

OC'd to 4.0GHz @ 1.36v

Initial Mount w/Tuniq TX-3
Idle: 36-32-34-34
Load: 76-77-78-80

2nd Mount w/PK-1
Idle: 36-32-35-34
Load: 80-74-72-78

2nd Mount w/Push n'Pull Setup
Idle: 33-28-31-30
Load: 72-69-68-74

Prior I had an H50 running my chip at 3.8GHz (couldn't do 4.0GHz with this cooler) and I was getting high 70s for load temps.

A lot of people OC these chips on air right around 1.4v, I know with OC'ing YMMV but I feel like these load temps when OC'd are too high for a custom water loop.
 
Last edited:

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
You decreased your temps, despite having raised your voltage and clocks...all for only double the rad...I'd say you did just fine.
 
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Aqualoon

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Went from 3.8GHz to 4.0GHz for $300+

I was thinking with double the rad plus a way better water block then the H50 I would have been able to do better. Well, thanks for confirming that this is as good as it gets for this setup.
 

fall

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Arlington
judging by the picture you posted it looks like the loop order is Pump > Res > Rad > CPU > Pump... If that is the case then your pump is having to Pull the water through the loop rather than push it...

Unless that pump is different and the inlet is on the top and outlet on the bottom...

if not that will help temps a bit too. Regardless of how your pump is your temps are good for a hot chip like the 860 (better temps than i got on mine with a 240 :D )
 

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
It's ambient cooling...what do you want? lol...sounds like you didn't do your research if you ask me.
 

Supaduck

Registered
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
judging by the picture you posted it looks like the loop order is Pump > Res > Rad > CPU > Pump... If that is the case then your pump is having to Pull the water through the loop rather than push it...

Unless that pump is different and the inlet is on the top and outlet on the bottom...

if not that will help temps a bit too. Regardless of how your pump is your temps are good for a hot chip like the 860 (better temps than i got on mine with a 240 :D )

From what i know, this doesnt matter, as the loop is pretty much a closed system so as the pump pushes, it pulls and visa versa. Though i do agree you're running a bit hot, what exactly are your ambient temps? it just may be that your room's hot as is so it'd be harder to get lower temps. i do believe my idle temps are low to high 20s but my ambient is around 20-23 so yeah...over all. i think you're fine. lol nice setup
 
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Aqualoon

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Feb 6, 2012
I guess I don't understand what you mean by 'ambient cooling', my ambients are no hotter then 72F, they increase to no more then 74F in the summer.

I bought the H50 for $70, had decent results at 3.8GHz at 1.34v, I guess it was wrong of me to figure that if I doubled the rad (120mm to 240mm), got a better water block (Swiftech Apogee HD is a better block then what the H50 uses right?) and a solid pump for flow that I would be able to soar above what an H50 was able to do for me.
 

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
From what i know, this doesnt matter, as the loop is pretty much a closed system so as the pump pushes, it pulls and visa versa. Though i do agree you're running a bit hot, what exactly are your ambient temps? it just may be that your room's hot as is so it'd be harder to get lower temps. i do believe my idle temps are low to high 20s but my ambient is around 20-23 so yeah...over all. i think you're fine. lol nice setup

I think (and I could be wrong) that he's referring to the fact that the pump is before the res...which violates the ONE rule there is about loop order, res before pump...ALWAYS. Also, (and I don't have any data to back this up, so don't quote me on it) I think that there would be a difference as the water is "resting", as it were, in the res, unlike in a truly closed loop system.
 
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Aqualoon

New Member
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Feb 6, 2012
Well, going to slap another 120mm rad in there to see if that does anything.
 

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
It's a realm of dimiminishing returns in terms of water temp. What you really should be doing is trying to determine what the least efficient part of your cooling system is and then upgrading that. For example, if you're not getting heat out of the CPU well enough, maybe you lap the CPU, or increase the bow/mounting pressure on your block. Taking the first-gen i7's much further than 4.0 is not too easy without a binned chip, if I were you, I'd be happy where I was.
 
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Aqualoon

New Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
If I didn't have 80C at 4GHz just running the Intel Burn test I would be happy. I want to get this thing in folding condition.
 

m0r7if3r

Member, Water Cooling Sticky Reading Enforcement O
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Location
Marietta, GA
80C is fine, I ran at 83-87C under prime/linpack(IBT) for a good while...didn't see any degradation of the chip...OFC, the my mobo ate the IMC on that chip, so I can't say what WOULD have happened to it, given time...but 80C is fine IMO. Have you checked your contact pattern and the bow of your block? I'm telling you, the systematic approach is the way to go if you want to improve performance. Find the area with the greatest potential for gain/$, maximize that area, move to the next.