Help With DDR2 RAM - IM ABOUT TO GO BALD

[vanessab]

Ok, So Ive been searching these forums, and most people talk about the standard DDR ram, or talk about 2 x 512mb of ram. Well, I dont want either. I would like 2gb of DDR2 Ram. Just one Problem....

I JUST CANT FIGURE OUT WHICH RAM I WANT TO GET.

Here is my setup that I am going to Have in the next few days, I just cant figure out which ram

MotherBoard: Asus P5WD2
CPU: P4 640 3.2ghz Prescott
Cooling: Big Typhoon
PS: Antec TPII 550watt
Video Card: xfx 7800gtx 256mn
Hard Drive: 250gb WD Sata 150 @ 7200rpm

OK, Im going to be using this computer for Multi-Tasking, which I do a lot. But also, I will be playing hardcore games, so I need 2 GB of memory, 1gb is out of the question.

I WANT TO KNOW WHICH MEMORY I CAN GET (2gb KIT) THAT WILL ALOW ME TO OVERCLOCK MY 3.2GHZ TO 4GHZ+ ON AIR COOLING ONLY.....NO WATER and can still give me good performance in games.

Can someone PLEASE help me with some suggestions ? IM DYING HERE !! I got EVERYTHING figured out EXCEPT for this bloody RAM

Please suggest Ram (preferrably 2gb Kit?) that is within the price range of $200 or less. If there is ram that may cost a little more than $200, please let me know, $300 +/- is my ABSOLUTE MAX.

 

[infinitevalence]

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/258/1/

You can always research things too

 

[Killaapp]

I would recommend the PQI Turbo DDR2-667 (2x1024).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141211

 

[SirMikael]

I'd put some Snickers bars on your head to prevent the baldness factor. It works for a while, anyhow, until the co-workers get wise.

Ok, I'm a newbie here, I'm allowed one joke post, right???

 

[vanessab]

hey, ive been thinking about getting the PQI also. How far do you think i can overclock my 3.2 prescott, on AIR ??

Also, will those 2gb of PQI give me good performance, for games such as BF2 ?

 

[vanessab]

Any Other Suggestions?

 

[Sentential]

Here's how this will work. There are two ways of running RAM on a computer platform. There is synchronized mode and asychronized. 99.9% of all intel platforms will run asynch. Meaning the ram speed will be significantally above what the FSB (CPU bus speed) is capable of doing.

The RAM being reccomended is PC5300. Its base speed is 166mhz quad pumped to 667. However most programs read the ram speed as if it were DDR1. Therefor on that basis the ratio of your CPU to your ram will most likely be asynch using 3:5 (CPU bus = 3/5 of ram speed) (200:333).

The way the CPU speed is configured is that it is a combination of the CPU's multiplier X the bus speed.

In your case a 3200mhz intel processer has a combinded speed of 16 (multipler) x 200 (bus speed). So your fears that even PC4200 DDR2 wouldnt be enough are unfounded if you were to go synch (which is what you would want).

See for yourself:

Stock = 200 x 16 = 3200mhz
PC4200 = 266 x 16 = 4256
PC5300 = 333 x 16 = 5329
PC6400 = 400 x 16 = 6400
PC8000 = 500 x 16 = 8000mhz

So before you would even begin to start overclocking your ram you would have to hit a minimum of 5.33ghz (which is not possible yet). Did this help?

Even if you bought PC4200 you would still be able to reach atleast 4ghz. What you want to find is a decent set of PC5300 with good timings (under 4 if possible)

When it gets down to it, if you cannot hit 4ghz it will not be the RAM but a combination of cooling and the CPU itself

 

[vanessab]

ok, So can anyone let me know this

What is the difference between 2x1gb sticks and 4x512gb sticks.

Now please keep in mind, im not a hardcore overclocker, i just want to take my 3.2ghz to 4ghz and still be able to play good games like bf2 and what not.

Please someone give me recommendations about RAM. Thanks for all your help, but I just dont understand ram timings full yet, and it seems that most of you do.

Along with your knowledge, can you guys Send me



Also, which would be better of the 2 below, 2x1 of the PQI or 4x512 of the 5400c4PRO??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16820145535,N82E16820141211&SubCategory=147

 

[Killaapp]

I would stay away from 4x512, def go for the 2x1024.

I have found that 4 sticks of ram seriously decreases your rams ability to achieve high frequencies.

 

[infinitevalence]

it also doubles the chance of getting a bad or poor performing componant.

 

[vanessab]

killapp how good is that pqi you have , at overclocking, and game performance? can i reach 4ghz from my 3.2ghz on AIR COOLING?

 

[vanessab]

also,

how much different is it buyng a 2x1gb dual kit, compared to just 2 x 1gb of the same ram.

Will it still be considered Dual? or do you have to buy them in the Dual Kit, or is there really no difference?

 

[Killaapp]

Vanessab - you and I are both running 3.2s at 4.0ghz. 250x16 = 4000mhz

for DDR2, if you run the 4/3 multiplier, then 250 X 4 / 3 = 333mhz

The PQI kit I linked runs stock at 333mhz. This means that if you Overclock your chip to 4ghz, the ram will not be overclocked, it will be running at its stock speed of 667mhz dual channel.

I think it is easier, and usually cheaper, to buy ram in a kit of 2x1024.

Just so you know, air cooling has nothing to do with ram. The motherboard, cpu, power supply, and heatsink are directly related to your chip hitting 4ghz, however, the ram has absolutely nothing to do with your chip hitting 4ghz because you can divide and multiply it accordingly.

 

[infinitevalence]

most of the time there really is no difference, back when NF2 first went dual channel there were some cases where sticks that were not tested together would not work, most of the time its just to ensure that you get two sticks that are from the same batch. This minimizes any compattiblity issues.

 

[Sentential]

for DDR2, if you run the 4/3 multiplier, then 250 X 4 / 3 = 333mhz

Thats bad information and you are going to confuse him. That ram is nativly 667 (technially 166). If anything he will be running asynch up not down (3:4 not 4:3)

What you suggested is if he were using PC2700 not 5300

killapp how good is that pqi you have , at overclocking, and game performance? can i reach 4ghz from my 3.2ghz on AIR COOLING?

I already answered your question in a previous post. However I will say it again RAM wont be the limiting factor to getting 4ghz period. The CPU itself will decide if you get that high or not.

Im somewhat annoyed that you did not bother reading what I said since it took me a bit to type it. (and I even included a picture of what I was talking about)

Now for the dual channel issue. DC has nothing to do with ram other than finding a matched pair (ie 2 from the same manufactuer / type). You can technically run any ram in DC so long as it is capable of the same voltage / speed / timings.

Dual-channel is something that the Northbridge (memorycontroller) is doing, not the RAM. DC is similar to RAID striping and allows the ram to be streamed as a whole unit increasing bandwith rates and its effective birate from 64bit to 128bit. That is all that it refers to.

Buying non DC ram will not effect you so long as you buy the same type of ram from the same MFG and hope its the same type of chips. This is why its easier to just buy a DC pack.

Now the ram timings refer to a ns delay between queing periods (ns = nanosecond). Higher timings indicate that the ram is in an idle state for a longer period of time between when data is called for processing.

Therefor lower timings are more desirable. a ram that has a TRP or TRCD / any timing of 2ns is processing data literely twice as fast as a ram with a timing of 4ns and so on.

Therefor when you look at the RAM speed you must consider its speed relitive to its timings. Simply because it is fast (say 500mhz @ 5-5-5-15) will make it as fast as a ram with half the timings and speed (say 2-2-2-7 @ +-250).

Most "soild" DDR2-667 (PC5300) has their timings under 4 (excluding Tras which refers to the motherboard cycle timing). (4-4-4-10).

The higher peforming stuff uses Micron BT3 which is often seen with the timings of 4-2-2-7 or 3-2-2-6 @ around 667mhz (PC5300) or 4-3-3 / 5-3-3 @ 700/800mhz

However the vast majority of PC5300 uses Samsung and Infineon chips which have a timing range of 5-5-5 to as low as 3-3-3 @ 667mhz

 

[vanessab]

Sentential, I did read your post and I thank you for that information. The reason i was asking KillApp about the PQI, is because I was interested in getting that same brand, and since he has the 640, i just wanted to see what results he got.

Now Sentenial, when you say the cpu and cooling itself. What are the factors about the cpu and cooling that allow it to overclock?

Mine is a p4 640 3.2ghz Prescott 775. My cooling is, my Sonata II case with included rear 120mm fan, Additional 120mm front fan, and a Big Typhoon. Will this be sufficient cooling?

 

[Sentential]

Sentential, I did read your post and I thank you for that information. The reason i was asking KillApp about the PQI, is because I was interested in getting that same brand, and since he has the 640, i just wanted to see what results he got.

Now Sentenial, when you say the cpu and cooling itself. What are the factors about the cpu and cooling that allow it to overclock?

Mine is a p4 640 3.2ghz Prescott 775. My cooling is, my Sonata II case with included rear 120mm fan, Additional 120mm front fan, and a Big Typhoon. Will this be sufficient cooling?

I updated the post above yours with information on dual-channel and what makes good DDR2 and so on. Im not sure if when you posted this the previous post had updated yet.

As for RAM brands what I have is Mushkin's PC6400 which uses Micron BT (best chips money can buy).

Cooling wise the Typhoon should be plenty to get to 4ghz. Just about anything with a cooling fan over 92mm should be perfectally fine.

Plus you have a 640 like mine and many of these 640s do over 4ghz on default voltage. The issue with clocking Prescott chips occur when you have to raise the voltage to get stable increases in speed. Prescotts are hot enough as they are but they become unbearable around 1.5v like what I am using here:

(Thermalright XP120 with TFB1212SHE Delta fan)

Heat causes something called electromigration to occur within the chip. The best I can desrcibe it is controlled chaos. The added heat deteriorites the chips ability to push the electrons down each channel and they start to cross over to other traces / layers of the chip. This causes a semi-short circuit that causes the chip to produce mathmatical errors (which causes crashes and BSODs etc).

Any chip at a certian temperature will error out, even yours at stock (like removing the heatsink). So the goal is to keep the temps as low as possible in order to allow it to clock to a higher frequency without causeing errors. Many people have resorted to using Liquid Nitrogen to get their chips to incredible speeds but thats not pratical for every day use. In short, less heat = less voltage needed to maintain higher speeds.

This is why heat is the main factor in what you are facing. Prescotts put out alot of heat and are therefor very susceptible to electromigration which woulc cause your chip to become unstable at / above 4ghz

As for CPU factors some are better than others. Its a matter of the silicon quality much like many precious gemstones. Simply because its a diamond doesnt mean its worth 100 million. The same applies here.

As for the silicon quality your chances go up with higher grade chips but its not a gaurntee. The only way to find out is to litererly clock it up on the spot and see if it can

(taken from previous post)

This is what I am currentally using on my 640 now.

 

[Killaapp]

Sent. - you are right; I mixed up where to put the 4 and the 3. I used the term multiplier instead of divider to imply that the ram would be running up, which was semi shown by my calculation of 250x4/3.

Either way, I was just trying to illustrate that if Vanessab gets native ddr2-667 ram he can run 250fsb (which gives him his 4ghz) and not have to worry about the ram overclock (since it will be running at spec).

Vanessab - the only reason I first mentioned the PQI ram was because I thought you were looking to spend under $200. Now that I see you will spend upwards of $300, you should def consider the Mushkin or Patriot kits that offer very high frequency while maintaining tight timings.

 

[Sentential]

Sent. - you are right; I mixed up where to put the 4 and the 3. I used the term multiplier instead of divider to imply that the ram would be running up, which was semi shown by my calculation of 250x4/3.

Ya I figured as much .

Either way this was the point I was trying to get across to him. For an intel platform any ram will not limit him to 4ghz, only the CPU and cooling can. The only platform that will truly be RAM limited will be AM2 in June.