192gb ddr5 am5 7950x asrock x670e taichi gskill 6400 cl32 - max 4800 old bios, max 4000-4200 new bios, not even 5200

[meltmanbob]

Hello all, no I dont' have a good reason for running this much ram but there are those who do so I'm hoping you can help me get it running better! Default to 3600, on older bios up to 1.28 I believe, I can get 4800, from there about 4000 and with the last 2 bios 4200. I've even tried with the latest bios to manually set all timings, 1st, 2nd, 3rd from early bios that got 4800 to try 4400 and no luck. I have literally downloaded and tested every bios from 24/48gb support starting at 3600 increasing by 200 till it didn't boot using 1.45v vdd, vddq, vddio and 1.3 vddsoc, granted some bios set 1.45 to 1.43. I have 2x 2 stick kits of 6400 cl32 gskill s5 which is supposed to be the same performance but non rgb as the guy who got all this running at 5200 using trident z5 but on a gigabyte mobo on youtube.

This is my first build in almost 13 years so there is a lot I'm not familiar with! Ram is https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6HVL8ZD?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details , I don't even have windows installed yet and I'm running out of my return window, I'm trying to figure out if I chose the wrong ram, my cpu isn't great or if there are a lot more settings I need to fine tune to get to 5200+ with 192gb, or the mobo. I'm not familiar with ddr bus configuration at all, the impedance values or many other things even though I see many getting faster speeds with 4 dimms and significantly lower voltages.

 

[Woomack]

Officially, 4 memory modules run at 3600, and nothing above that. ASRock doesn't even have any 4-module setup on QVL. It means they stick with AMD specs and don't care to optimize BIOS for more than 2 modules. It's also because barely anyone uses more than 2 memory modules, not to mention 32/48GB. I'm not even sure what's the point of releasing 4-slot motherboards and totally ignoring the fact there are users who wish to run 4 memory modules. However, not much better is on most other motherboards. As you noticed, Gigabyte somehow supports higher frequencies, but even with 4x24GB, it's not so spectacular as in most cases, it will stuck at ~6000. There are also barely any 4-module kits designed for AMD on the market. Most leading brands are not releasing those, even at low capacity.

I saw early screenshots of 4x64GB modules, and Gigabyte could go up to 5200. 4x48GB should be about as hard to set at 5200. I'm not sure if, in this case, it's a matter of IMC or, in general, the IMC/motherboard design and available BIOS. I highly doubt that manual timing tuning will help you much as it should at least post at most auto settings. You can push IMC voltage or relax most timings some more, but memory voltages probably won't help much at these lower frequencies.

Maybe someone else will share some experience with 4x48GB modules, but somehow I doubt you get many responses as barely anyone uses so much RAM at home. I wanted to check it, but I won't spend money only for some tests, and memory manufacturers don't want to send 2x48GB kits as they see no point in reviews of high-capacity kits when most readers are gamers. Only Crucial sent a 2x48GB kit, but I would still need a second one, and it's like $400 in local stores.
Btw. the negative comment under Crucial 96GB 5600 kit made me laugh - https://www.crucial.com/memory/ddr5/cp2k48g56c46u5
"PRODUCT WAS NOT THAT EASY TO INSTALL. FOR THE MONEY IT SHOULD COME WITH THE REQUIRED SCREWDRIVERS ETC. IT WAS A PAIN."

 

[meltmanbob]

I wasn't expecting 6000 on this even if I was hoping I could be lucky but from what I read the taichi is supposed to be very good for memory overclocking. Considering I've come across several posts and videos showing 4 sticks at 128-192 I was surprised how simple it was for them to jump to 4800-5200 compared to my setup.

Another thing I don't get yet is why the first 3 or so bios with large dimm support let me get to 4800. Something I noticed with those was the cpu max frequency was 4500 but later bios jumped to 5850 which consequently are also the bios that now go to 4000-4200 on the ram.

I made a spreadsheet from all my screenshots and all bios come up with the same timings at each frequency which is why I took the 4800 settings but only set frequency to 4400 on the latest bios to see if I could push it's limit. That tells me it's a bios issue, either earlier ones would post less stable but higher settings and the new one was more thorough in vetting or the new ones are limiting for some reason even tho they allow 1.45v on vdd vddq vddio vs 1.43 on earlier bios.

I'm going to try manually setting the ddr bus configuration settings today.

To be fair if I had any idea it was going to take this long I would have spent the extra money on the 4 stick corsair kit at 5200 except it's spectek chips. It's even more frustrating I don't know much about overclocking these days and all the settings and the lack of resources but then again I haven't overclocked since ddr1-3! Thanks for the input so far though!

 

[Woomack]

I don't think there is a BIOS that is optimized for 64GB modules yet. Once they add it and tune it right, then 48GB modules will work better, too. I assume they will do that soon, as the news was a couple of days ago, but I haven't seen any new BIOS since then, and not even kits based on 64GB modules in stores. It's only Micron-based Kingston so far. The new Gigabyte and ASUS BIOS add new APU support, and I guess nothing else, as it's not listed.

 

[meltmanbob]

I'll keep an eye out and mess with this a bit more as these should be decent sticks. Worst case is I run them slower for now, still way better than my i5 2500k with 32gb 1600 ddr3! It does seem that the answer might be in those bus configuration settings but I don't really know how to tweak them. Found some ddr4 article but I'm going to first screenshot those settings at different speeds and on the bios that got 4800 to look for clues.

 

[meltmanbob]

Just a small update, back on the 1.24.as02 I believe, the first bios to support the larger dimms, that one I could get to 4800mhz previously but didn't change any timings. I used buildzoids timings and left the voltage alone and got to 4400 then to 4800 pushing vdd, vddq and vddio to 1.15 from 1.1 and left vddsoc to auto but still could not hit 5000 even pushing voltages up like buildzoid to 1.35 and 1.25.

The part I was expecting to be different between the earlier and latest bios was the ddr bus configuration but they appear to be identical just like the timings matching per speed regardless of bios.

The curious part is from what I've read you generally want to increase those bus values yet the motherboard actually lowers them with speed increase. I'm also still curious why the earlier bios versions can get to 4800 but the newer ones cap at 4000.

 

[BitFlipper]

my situation
I have the exact same board and memory as you (x670e taichi, gskill 6400 cl32 f5-6400j3239f48gx2-rs5k) (not on qvl).
If I only have two dimms installed I can pick the xmp preset and boot at 6400.
If I have all four dimms installed the highest I have been able to set it is 4000.
If I could hit 4800 that would be good enough, but anything past 4000 and it gets stuck with a c5 error.


different memory kits
In that video you reference, he has the same gskill memory (but with leds), and is able to hit 4800 with 192GB installed, using a gigabyte x670e board.

In this thread someone is using a taichi on bios 2.02, with "corsair vengeance 5200 cl38" (which is on the qvl), and they hit 4800.

This thread has four different people confirm they are able to hit 5200 with that corsair kit, but on an asus x670e board.

Supposedly asrock will add support for kingston/micron 64GB modules this year (256GB total), and have a screenshot of running that at 6000mhz.
However no one is even listing those sticks on their websites yet, much less selling them, so presumably this will be weeks or months.

So clearly the memory controller is capable of supporting this kit, but it might come down to asrock supporting it via a future bios, but if it's not on the qvl then maybe there's not a lot of incentive to do that.


bios versions
I have tried bios 1.28, 1.30beta, and 2.02. I can't get past 4000 on any of them, though I don't have fancy memory overclocking skills, mostly just setting a voltage of 1.2 or 1.3, increasing the clock to 4200, and seeing if it boots.

However there are various people reporting that 2.00+ made their memory timings worse, and that 1.30beta (older agesa) was the last working one.

Another thread, this one discussing bios 2.00.

I've noticed the latest 2.00 is not the most stable for my particular B650 Pro RS with Gskill 6000mhz cl36 samsung ram. The most stable bios for my config is 1.28.
I have the same board and can't say it's been super stable for me either.

Upgraded from 1.24AS05 to 2.00 on my X670E Steel Legend. I cannot properly enable IOMMU in the new version.
Same here on X670E Taichi.
Got an answer from Support: "Please use the BIOS with AGESA 1007B/C." [the last bios with agesa 1.0.0.7 was 1.30 beta]

updated to 2.00 from 1.28 on my X670e pro rs and immediately dove into random blue screens
UPDATE: rolling back to 1.28 seems to have fixed whatever issues I was having.

updated to bios 2.0 on x670e taichi carrara mb. I am getting pc shutdown/crashes now when trying to game. 1.28 bios I was stable.
Updated BIOS from 1.29.AS01 to 2.00. When I restart Windows, it stops with POST code 46
Currently everyone - please do not install update 2.00 = BETA. Defects: performance drops, bluescreens after update

options
Find magical combination of bios version and timings that make this kit work at 4800+ with 192GB. (might not be possible)
Hope asrock releases a bios update that supports the gskill kit (could happen, but maybe isn't likely as the board has already been out for a year).
Wait for the high-speed 64GB dimms, then buy those and sell the gskill ones (who knows how long that will take and what they will cost).
Sell the gskill memory on ebay and buy 192GB of the type of memory on the qvl, corsair vengeance 5200 cl38 cmk96gx5m2b5200c38. (might work, but does cost money and time).

 

[meltmanbob]

The first 2-3 bios from when that memory size was supported gets me 4800, it's only after that it drops to 4000 although I have gotten into the bios at 4200

 

[Woomack]

Press releases are usually made on beta/unreleased BIOS, so we don't really know how it will act on retail memory kits. There are no 64GB modules in stores yet. I asked Crucial, and they don't have it on their release list for the upcoming weeks. Since they're a Micron brand, then I thought they would have at least 2x64GB kits earlier than Kingston.
There are problems with most 4-module kits on AMD motherboards, and I guess this is why barely any brand sells them.
I don't know if it's a matter of BIOS or current memory controllers, but out of the lab tests, barely anyone can make any 4-module setup work at more than 4800. Most motherboards work fine, but at 3600-4400. I was playing a bit with 4x24GB, and it was acting almost the same as some report on higher-capacity kits. It's just hard to believe that 2x48GB runs up to 7200+, and 4x24GB can't even pass 5200 without problems.

I wouldn't count on any magical BIOS to solve all the problems. Most motherboard brands don't care about something as rare as a 96GB+ RAM setup on a desktop motherboard. They assume that when it works as memory controller specs say, then it's fine. Before they fix all the issues on current motherboards, then we will get another generation of chipsets and CPUs. Everything changes too fast, and motherboard manufacturers usually focus on BIOS for about half a year after product release. The exception are top OC series from ASUS, as other brands don't even care about that and release only critical updates and new microcode (CPU support).

 

[meltmanbob]

Bios is a major part of the problem. Earlier versions I can get 4800, go to newer, 4000 and even then not stable, I've defaulted to 3600

 

[BitFlipper]

Hmm interesting, so those newer bioses really are a problem for memory timing when maxing the slots.

Currently with 192GB I can't get past 4000 no matter what, screwed around with voltages for a while but no luck.

I may give 192GB of that crucial cp2k48g56c46u5 a try to see if it magically works.

 

[Woomack]

No matter what BIOS, you still can't set as high clock as you wish. It's just that some versions are clearly failed, and maybe optimized for something else. There is a huge difference between 2 and 4 memory modules that we haven't seen before. Something clearly isn't right. I have seen 2x48GB @8000, and it's dual rank. 4x24GB still has problems to even pass 5200. On the IMC side, there are as many ranks in use for both setups.

It can be something locked in BIOS that AMD unlocks in future AGESA (like it was with 6400+ kits), or it's something that forces the frequency limit on the IMC side.

 

[BitFlipper]

I played around with voltages and timings a bit but I was never able to get 4x sticks of the gskill 6400 cl32 (f5-6400j3239f48gx2-rs5k) to be stable past 4000.


looking at the asrock x670e taichi qvl memory list they had this on there:
5600 cl40 40-40-40-77 1.25v rgb (cmh96gx5m2b5600c402x48GB)
5200 cl38 40-40-40-77 1.25v (cmk192gx5m4b5200c38)

I got 4x48GB of this corsair model, which is the same as the 5600 version above, but without rgb
5600 cl40 40-40-40-77 1.25v (cmk96gx5m2b5600c40)

I tried running the 4x48GB corsair at 5600 for fun, didn't post, but I didn't expect that to work.
I then dropped it down to 4800 and it worked fine, ran stressapptest for 16h to stress test the cpu/memory and it passed with no errors, which is good enough for me.
The only bios settings I changed are listed below:

bios 2.02
(dram frequency): ddr5-4800
(vddio voltage): 1.2
(dram vdd voltage): 1.2
(dram vddq voltage): 1.2
(dram vpp voltage): 1.8
(soc/uncore oc voltage): 1.2
(vdd misc voltage): 1.1

 

[meltmanbob]

When I looked at the qvl before it looked like the corsair ramwas using spectek chips iirc, maybe that's why I can run faster. Still curious why the earlier bios versions could do 4800 but then dropped to the 4000. Either way it's down to ram, mobo and bios or the combination to get much closer to at least 6000 on 192. When I get back home I'll check out the new bios.