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SAEVARM3

New Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
Wow thanks a bunch for taking the time to answer me mate! .... I btw do not have a fan over my ram sticks and even at vDimm 1.380V and VCCSA 0.992V it gets close to 50c when gaming for 1-2hours on XMP Profile so I am kinda afraid of rasing the vDimm a bunch, what is a normal VCCSA voltage for those profiles or do you just keep it Auto and let the board handle VCCSA?

Does that mean with no XMP Profile loaded the secondary timings are tighter and I can use that with my XMP?
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
This RAM runs hot but it's safe up to ~75°C. The same memory chips are in server series RAM rated even higher. Depending on many factors, it may lose stability while overclocked at 60-65°C. You can try voltage up to 1.40-1.45V as it should be enough for CL16 at 4000 and still shouldn't run too hot. 50°C is actually low temp. Dual rank kits usually run at about 5-7°C higher temps than single rank and also react a bit better to higher temps.

Up to 4000, you can keep SA at auto. Most motherboards set it high enough up to 4266+. It may raise a bit the CPU temp but is not affecting the RAM temp.

Enable XMP and adjust manually all timings that you know. This way all that you know is faster than XMP, and all that you don't know is still faster than auto.
 

SAEVARM3

New Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
This RAM runs hot but it's safe up to ~75°C. The same memory chips are in server series RAM rated even higher. Depending on many factors, it may lose stability while overclocked at 60-65°C. You can try voltage up to 1.40-1.45V as it should be enough for CL16 at 4000 and still shouldn't run too hot. 50°C is actually low temp. Dual rank kits usually run at about 5-7°C higher temps than single rank and also react a bit better to higher temps.

Up to 4000, you can keep SA at auto. Most motherboards set it high enough up to 4266+. It may raise a bit the CPU temp but is not affecting the RAM temp.

Enable XMP and adjust manually all timings that you know. This way all that you know is faster than XMP, and all that you don't know is still faster than auto.

I see, you mean with Auto instead of XMP I will see better timings for at least secondary yes? ... then just enable XMP Profile, raise voltage to 1.450V and try maybe 3600MHz @ CL14-15-15-34? and the secondary timings I got with no XMP Profile? (sry about all the questions btw haha)

One last question and then I will hopefully be out of your hair haha... I am on ASRock Z690 Extreme and I see you have been using that motherboard ... currently running BIOS v4.01 and everything is stable and good, should I update my BIOS because there have been 2 bios releases since and one of them has "Improve memory compatibility" .... been thinking about updating BIOS but scared of doing something worse by updating.
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
When you enable full auto mode, then the motherboard will use SPD profile (default JEDEC settings). It will be probably 2133 and a list of timings that are supported at low voltages. For Samsung B, most of these timings work at higher frequencies but at a higher voltage (like 1.35-1.50V instead of 1.20V).

Yes, enable XMP and check how high it will work. However, at 3600 it will need 1.40-1.45V and at 3733-3800 1.45-1.50V. It depends on IC quality and the motherboard but I'm just saying that you will have to set a bit higher voltage to make it work. This will be the first step and once you set higher clock then next you can check tighter timings. I'm not sure if you need it as it won't help much in the performance, but if you want then can try.

You can update the BIOS as there can be improvements that are not listed. It's hard to make it wrong, Simply copy BIOS file to USB flash drive and run the update via BIOS tab. Don't turn off or restart the PC until it's done and it restarts automatically.
I was testing this motherboard half year ago, so yours have newer BIOS, not to mention updates available online.
 

SAEVARM3

New Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2022
When you enable full auto mode, then the motherboard will use SPD profile (default JEDEC settings). It will be probably 2133 and a list of timings that are supported at low voltages. For Samsung B, most of these timings work at higher frequencies but at a higher voltage (like 1.35-1.50V instead of 1.20V).

Yes, enable XMP and check how high it will work. However, at 3600 it will need 1.40-1.45V and at 3733-3800 1.45-1.50V. It depends on IC quality and the motherboard but I'm just saying that you will have to set a bit higher voltage to make it work. This will be the first step and once you set higher clock then next you can check tighter timings. I'm not sure if you need it as it won't help much in the performance, but if you want then can try.

You can update the BIOS as there can be improvements that are not listed. It's hard to make it wrong, Simply copy BIOS file to USB flash drive and run the update via BIOS tab. Don't turn off or restart the PC until it's done and it restarts automatically.
I was testing this motherboard half year ago, so yours have newer BIOS, not to mention updates available online.

Thank you so much mate for actually taking the time to explain, not all people would do that <3
I am not looking for a crazy memory overclock so I think I will never go for 4000mhz but who knows haha... thinking about going for 3600MHz 14-15-15-34 @ vDimm 1.45V, SA Auto or maybe just 1.20V and VDDQ TX Voltage 1.20 (comes out of the box @ 1.20V or should I raise VDDQ) with better secondary timings, tertiary timings scare me haha

I noticed btw when you told me about the profiles I could try you never include tRAS, is that something I should just keep at 34 or should I maybe go for lower?
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Up to 4000 all voltages except VDIMM can stay at auto. VCCSA will be probably a bit too high so you can check it at something lower than auto but it doesn't matter much.
As I said, for you the easy way will be still fine so just enable XMP with main timings at 14-14-14 or 14-15-15, set 3600 and higher VDIMM.
You can keep tRAS at 34 or set it lower. The lower limit is usually 28, sometimes 26. However, it's not helping much in performance so it doesn't really matter if you change it or not.
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Acer Predator Vesta RGB 2x16GB DDR4-3600 CL14-15-15 added to the list - dual-rank Samsung B kit

Can make up to 4266 CL14-14-14, but I couldn't make it boot higher. Still one of the best dual-rank kits I've tested.
DDR5 is on the market but there are still new DDR4 series. DDR4 probably won't be reviewed often anymore as there are no new IC and Intel is pushing DDR5 even in low series motherboards for the next gen. If I decide to review anything DDR4 then probably only when it's a more "exotic" kit.
 

Blaeza

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
I've got some Corsair Vengeance LPX 16gb X 2 3200CL16 Micron B die and as I can see you make memory do it's best. But mine can only do this, why? Zen best.png
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
It's probably because you are using B450 motherboard and Ryzen 3000. Both are pretty much limited (especially the motherboard). You need a specific B550/X570 motherboard to run it at a higher clock. Good Micron B can pass DDR4-5000 CL18.
At 3600-3800 I would try CL14-17-15 or something similar at ~1.5V or a bit more. Micron B should be stable up to 1.6V but won't really like much more (it won't be damaged but may lose stability when the voltage is too high).
On Ryzen 3000/5000, you generally want 3600-3800 Gear 1 anyway as it gives the best performance. Once you pass ~3733/4000 (depends on the CPU) it runs at Gear 2 and you can see the latency hit. To reach the same performance as at ~3733 Gear 1, you have to reach ~4800 Gear 2. Only Ryzen 4000/5000 APUs run fine past DDR4-5000, but only on some specific, high-end motherboards.
 

Blaeza

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
It's probably because you are using B450 motherboard and Ryzen 3000. Both are pretty much limited (especially the motherboard). You need a specific B550/X570 motherboard to run it at a higher clock. Good Micron B can pass DDR4-5000 CL18.
At 3600-3800 I would try CL14-17-15 or something similar at ~1.5V or a bit more. Micron B should be stable up to 1.6V but won't really like much more (it won't be damaged but may lose stability when the voltage is too high).
On Ryzen 3000/5000, you generally want 3600-3800 Gear 1 anyway as it gives the best performance. Once you pass ~3733/4000 (depends on the CPU) it runs at Gear 2 and you can see the latency hit. To reach the same performance as at ~3733 Gear 1, you have to reach ~4800 Gear 2. Only Ryzen 4000/5000 APUs run fine past DDR4-5000, but only on some specific, high-end motherboards.
Thank you very much for your time. I can't get it to run at CL16 3800 just makes me fetch the screwdriver. But I'm going to try what you said with the higher voltages and just hope that helps. Would a AsRock B550 Steel Legend be better than my old faithful?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Would a AsRock B550 Steel Legend be better than my old faithful?
Maybe... but is buying another motherboard to increase memory speeds worth it? Not to most people. Real-world gains aren't much - at least not worth buying another motherboard for. I'd hold onto your system and wait to upgrade when the new stuff comes out. Worst case is you get a better deal on B550 and 5000 series CPUs, or you jump into the new stuff. But I surely wouldn't buy just for a meager memory speed increase. :)
 

Blaeza

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Maybe... but is buying another motherboard to increase memory speeds worth it? Not to most people. Real-world gains aren't much - at least not worth buying another motherboard for. I'd hold onto your system and wait to upgrade when the new stuff comes out. Worst case is you get a better deal on B550 and 5000 series CPUs, or you jump into the new stuff. But I surely wouldn't buy just for a meager memory speed increase. :)
I intend to get a monitor, then motherboard, then GPU, then 5800X/5600X3D(fingers crossed it happens) it's not just for memory speed, it's ALL the speed... I'm not rich so I'm having to do it in bits and a little increase in memory speed will keep my fix of upgrades happy until the next one! Cheers for your advice though!
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Theres no upgrade/speed fix there. Unless you're benchmarking competitively, you'd never know what RAM you were running. :)

FTR, your mobo supports a 5800X3D (with tbe latest bios). You can save $1XX by simply not getting a mobo and using what you have with the new cpu and gpu. 3200 isn't holding anything back. Tighten the timings down @3200 if you're feeling saucy....my spend would be on tangible/noticeable upgrades first (monitor/gpu, cpu), especially if I wasn't rolling around in money. Makes no sense, to me, to upgrade mobo and ram when you're short money (assuming gaming is the primary use).

GL and keep us posted!
 

Blaeza

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Theres no speed fix there. Unless you're benchmarking competitively, you'd never know what RAM you were running. :)

FTR, your mobo supports a 5800X3D (with tbe latezt bios). You can save $1XX by simply not getting a mobo and using what you have with the new cpu and gpu. 3200 isn't holding anything back. Tighten the timings down if you're feeling saucy....my spend would be on tangible/noticeable upgrades first (monitor/gpu, cpu). :)

GL and keep us posted!
I'm not competitively ocing but I'm fascinated by it all. That and finding out my LPX wasn't a steaming pile after all was great!

I wouldn't be allowed a 5800X3D. The boss has set budgets which is fair enough, it's our money. I've got £350 for CPU and cooler eventually. I'll leave the motherboard and just utilise this one to the best of it's abilities. You see, to get my timings where they are, I had precise instructions as I've not a clue what I'm doing! And I am worried that I could damage something by just going "YOLO! 10 11 11 11 26"

I'll take your advice though about the mobo and focus on upgrading the crap telly with an ipod dock on the front, my 1660 super and R5 3600. Thank you!
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Overclocking memory is certainly an art and a skill that I don't have. Luckily we have Woomack around to keep us well-informed. Try out the increased voltage and push it! Start your own thread and we can help out there. :)
 

Blaeza

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
I'll do that... After my Kebab, nom! Worried my 125 amp board won't like it. But I will start a thread, yeah!
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I wouldn't invest in the "old" platform right now. There will be new AMD in 2-4 months (depends on availability). Probably AMD will keep DDR4 and even if not then DDR5 prices are expected to drop some more.

Re Micron IC. The best Microns are sold in Crucial kits. All other brands have worse chips for some reason. I said it should work at lower CL but it's not guaranteed and always requires higher voltages. The motherboard can have problems with stability at lower CL too. There are many variables. Another problem can be your motherboard. B450 was already patched multiple times for at least 3 different CPU series that were not even meant to work on these motherboards. Motherboard manufacturers were working to make it stable but not really to fine tune BIOS for maximum OC.

My advice is to adjust it for stability and if you want something faster then wait for the next-gen as pumping money into a 3 year old setup is not the best idea. As ED said, a new motherboard won't give you much (besides maybe satisfaction from a bit higher memory clock) and a new CPU won't be really new as 3D cache CPUs are the same already old Ryzens with improved cache.
The same with graphics cards. If you want something new/faster, then wait for the next gen. AMD, Nvidia and even Intel will have their new GPUs in 2-3 months. Nvidia is delaying premieres right now because they manufactured too many old chips and have to get rid of them before they start selling the new gen (RTX3000 doesn't fell old but it really is).
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Here's your thread. :)

 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Kingston Fury Beast RGB 32GB DDR5-6000 CL40-40-40-80 1.35V added to the list.
It's one more Hynix-based kit. At least my sample OC a bit worse than the previously reviewed G.Skill 6000 CL30/6400 CL32 or V-Color 6200 CL36. In short, it can make 6933 CL32 while most other kits on my motherboard can make 7000 CL32. These better kits are limited by the motherboard that can make 7000 max. Hopefully, the next-gen will give us more headroom.

The next will be ADATA 6400 and V-Color 6600. Some of you have already seen V-Color 6600 kit photo in the "new toys" topic. There will be also something from Apacer/Zadak DDR5 in the upcoming weeks.
As always, if you have any questions or requests regarding tests or what can be improved in the reviews then please let me know.