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How Many FPS Can Your Eye See?

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bob4933

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Jan 3, 2014
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Kenrou

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Aug 14, 2014
Yep another interesting fact, professional athletes (martial artists for example or boxers), professional gamers, f1 drivers, jet fighters all see a wider range of FPS because they conditioned their minds/bodies (knowingly or unknowingly) to high speed movement on a 24/7 basis :D
 

[email protected]

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Yep another interesting fact, professional athletes (martial artists for example or boxers), professional gamers, f1 drivers, jet fighters all see a wider range of FPS because they conditioned their minds/bodies (knowingly or unknowingly) to high speed movement on a 24/7 basis :D

Its not like they see more "FPS", They process it faster and understand it faster.
 

Ivy

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Joined
Jun 7, 2011
From my understanding and view: The Thing with Major effect on "How much we can see a second" is the brain. The nerves on the eyes are able to see far beyond the pace we usually are capable to handle. So the nerves on the eyes is biologically very advanced and very sensitive in term of sickness (especially Diabetes can damage those nerves). But those nerves on the eye do only act in a "single threaded" way, reason for being crazy fast while the brain is Multi threaded or Multi layer. So the brain will always act slower, just to much Tasks to handle. However, the brain is not a fixed amount of cells nor is the brain unable to grow. In term someone is focused on the eye a lot, the brain is able to become more efficient over time, so this is the reason some humans truly can see a lot more "FPS", actually not FPS but Information, than others may be capable of, along with the usual genetical factors and not to Forget, the Food and Environment is having a high effect on health aswell. Interesting to mention, the lid muscle is the fastest muscle in the human Body, it can act beyond the visible range without issue, so, even if the lid is closed a fraction of a second, it is usually barely visible to us.

I sometimes hear from People that they still are not happy with 60 FPS as it is still not sufficiently smooth to them. In some cases it can be true but the issue is less on the "How fast they can actually see" but instead "how good is the brain able to smoothen the judder"... everything is able to be learned in theory and if we stop "trying to find the judder" then the brain is able to Focus on another work... some sort of dejuddering. It is simply awesome what a well trained brain is capable off... so it is not all about FPS but ultimately the package on how the brain is able to adapt will decide on "how good the Picture finally is arriving".

Biologically, we see 2 different Images all the time, yet, the brain is combining them into one single Picture with the Information of 2 Pictures. Same can happen in term there is not a smooth Picture. The eyes is still able to see the judder but it may not make someone mad anymore and it may become less harsh because half the issue is truly on "how we do set up our brain", this will ultimately decide on how worse such issues are able to strike the brain. So, matter is indeed complicated and it can´t be pinned down by some fix numbers considering the ability in order to process a Image quick.

Interesting species in order to get some more understanding is a fly. A fly is able to scope with the Information of several houndred FPS without any issue and is able to adapt to it in a fraction of a second. However, in term something is extremely slow the fly will not be able to adapt because the processing time in order to connect those samples is to huge. The fly simply is not able to store any Information for Extended period but for any type of extremely quick Information, a fly is by far supreme. Human brain is actually a rather slow type but able to connect Information over a extremely Long period, so the Memory is actually huge and it will allow a human in order to become artistic when it Comes to any sort of Information. This is one of the main reason a human is the master of "Manipulation" because it simply is able to store a huge amount of information, although a rather average pace (compared with animals). At focused 3D view a human is truly supreme because he is the only species known to us to be able to have the required focused viewing accuracy in order to precisely shoot a ball or bullet toward a very small target.
 
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Ivy

Member
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Jun 7, 2011
A pulsating TV is usually running at 60 Hz on the final light source (there is many layers beyond the final light source way faster than this); the FPS is actually only required in order to catch a movement. As soon as there is a movement the eye and brain will notice it and judder will be noticed aswell.

But the true matter is a bit more complicated from my understanding: You basically have pulsating TV Technologys and non pulsating. A Frame is a pulsating type (at above 60 FPS it will usually become easy for the brain to smoothen it out), aswell is a Plasma TV or CRT and even OLED a pulsating type, the Picture at every Pixel is created by mixing several pulsating Colors resulting into one single Color.

LED-LCD or LCD is a bit different. Light source is not Pulsating and the Color is not created by mixing pulsating Colors together but rather by distorting the light source resulting into different wavelenghts. Technically a LED-LCD is a static light source without any pulsating lights, reason why it is supreme for non moving Pictures. There is not really any type of pulsating frequency (not mixing up with wavelength) on the direct light source on a LED-LCD and the Hz related stuff is basically purely electronical and not really visible. However, a Monitor with bad reaction time simply is unable to Switch to a different condition without causing blurring, a lack of Information because unable to Show the required Information in a certain moving pace. So, blurring simply means, lack of Information and it can affect a Screen or even the human brain or for some stupid reason the GPU is creating some sort of movement blurr as a forced Option.

Sure, the non pulsating light of a LED-LCD is usually less stress to the eyes but they got another issue with equal or even more possible stress: Nowadays a LED-LCD got a very strong light source but unfortunately there is a weakness into filtering out the blue light because this light can evade the distortion easyer than the other Colors (similiar to the sea or heaven). This means, a gamer with a strong LED-LCD is not having a evenly spreaded light (comparable to the sun) arriving at the eyes but instead way to much blue light. This is not good for the eyes when used in excessive amount. For this reason many Gamers may use eye protection glasses (yellow colored glasses) in order to reduce the stress on their eyes.

Now at the reaction time, OLED is by far supreme yes, but unfortunately the Hardware is still not fast enough in order to handle those Information without blurr, so even a OLED is nowadays technically unable to deliver a moving Picture without visible blurr. So in this term... in General a Plasma is still one of the fastest devices for moving Picture sharpness and so far i don´t Need another Screen Technology for Maximum Quality considering moving Picture.

The FPS is actually some sort of pulsating Pixel frequency derrived only by moving Pictures. In term there is no movement, the FPS can drop to Zero and there is no issue with judder to the eyes. Of Course the FPS is having a direct effect on the gameplay too because it will directly adapt to our Input and there is always a input-delay dependable on how much FPS which can be noticed as "smooth" or rather not smooth. True Gamers usually enjoy a Input-delay of less than 20 ms, but lower is always better.

In term your movie got 24 FPS and your TV is still without judder, reason is because it will produce additional Frames in order to increase the final FPS to 50, 60 or even more FPS. Technically this Information is not truly available to the Picture. So the TV is having more Frames but with the same amount of Information. This means the Picture will get more blurry than usual, but thanks to many Picture enhancement Technologys it is barely visible to most of us. Personally i watch all my movies in 24 FPS, i do not enjoy dirty tricks nor blurring.

Not really any new Knowledge but i think it´s important to create awareness and how the stuff may be linked to each others, it´s almost always a bit more complex than someone may guess.
 
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OP
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wingman99

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Dec 10, 2003
Its not like they see more "FPS", They process it faster and understand it faster.

Yes very true. I use to race AMA super sport 600cc road racing class and the vision to the left and right is very blurry at 140 MPH, you just concentrate on what is in front of you, just like a game all the racers all going the same speed.

Because of motion blur...



Plenty of info covering this on the net if you are looking for other sources and info.

Are you saying they add motion blur to make a movie, TV, or You Tube video smooth at 24 FPS? I don't see any motion blurring when I watch a comedy show on Tv or movie at 24 FPS. I do see motion blur when I wave my hand in front of my face or look at the spokes of wheel while it is spinning, like the video I posted.
 

EarthDog

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Not saying that, no...

With film shot at 24 fps, there is NATURAL motion blur. This is why movies and TV shot at 24 fps appear much more smooth than a video game at the same fps.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_blur#Animation
Without this simulated effect each frame shows a perfect instant in time (analogous to a camera with an infinitely fast shutter), with zero motion blur. This is why a video game with a frame rate of 25-30 frames per second will seem staggered, while natural motion filmed at the same frame rate appears rather more continuous. Many modern video games feature motion blur, especially vehicle simulation games.


https://www.quora.com/Why-do-movies...rrible-at-24-fps-Is-it-because-of-motion-blur

If you don't see motion blur while watching a movie... pause it (during fast action).
 
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Ivy

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Jun 7, 2011
This is a sensitive question regarding Motion blur. "Natural" is a relative term as the blur is caused by the camera unable to catch the whole Information from a moving Picture. With increased movement it gets worse, this is actually a technical Limitation from the camera. There is some high Speed camera available able to deal with the Information of several houndred FPS but they do Need a excessive amount of light in order to catch so much informations in a fraction of a second. So technically a camera simply can only catch so and so much light until it simply is having a issue with the light.

A game in comparison is producing almost perfect single Picture Frames without any Motion blur, so this means there is actually more Information available to the Frames. The eye and even brain is noticing it and a game at 24 FPS in this case appears to be way more juddery than a movie at the same FPS rate. Because simply, it is easyer for the brain separating each Frames when there is no blur in-between and issues will be noticed with bigger strength.

So for this reason some games may use some sort of simulated blur-mode in order to copy this sort of behaviour from a movie. Even our brain is able to have this sort of behaviour but not at a rate of 24 FPS, almost nothing... a brain may become a Motion-blur at above 60 FPS, so this is the reason why a game at 60 FPS usually appears to be smooth, even without any artificial Motion blur added.

However, in term a TV is using frame interpolating Technologys (very common nowadays) in order to raise the frame rate, the blur will even be increased but in Exchange the Picture will appear even more smooth.
 
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Ivy

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Jun 7, 2011
Oh, i know, i just was handing out some shortcut Story which is most likely easy to understand without getting into the Details and history to much, so i simply was adding some missing "in between step". ;)
 

EarthDog

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Location
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Good one! Ivy and shortcut stories... almost spit my drink out on the monitor when I read that! :rofl:
 

JrClocker

AKA: JrMiyagi
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
How Many FPS Can Your Eye See?

To answer the question posed in the title of this thread...Enough! :D

Ivy is spot on.

I'll add that the "speed" of eye sensitivity (aka your eye's FPS) improves greatly with how intense the light is compared to what you are currently viewing. Your eyes (like your ears) have a finite "dynamic range" of sensitivity...but this range moves based on how bright/loud the environment you are in. If you want to get into even MORE gobbley gook on this...do some research on the technology and regulations behind the strobe light for commercial fire-alarm systems:

- the strobe lights need to be synchronized within a "visual" zone by 1 ms or less (implying 1000 FPS)
- the strobe lights need to be synchronized across "non visual zones" by 10 ms or less (implying 100 FPS)

This is for the ADA, and people who suffer (either diagnosed or not) from any form of epilepsy...so that they can safely evacuate the building without having a seizure.

Although, when you read in between the lines, the strobe lights on the police/fire/ambulance emergency vehicles do not have to be synchronized...so it's not OK to have a seizure during a very rare fire event, but it is OK during the more common event of multiple emergency vehicles passing you on the freeway! :D

(I designed many of these in a past life...have a couple of patens in this - hehe)
 

satrow

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Feb 20, 2015
Location
Cymru
With many elite athletes/dancers/drivers, etc., they also learn/train to minimise saccadic masking of their vision "Sorry mate, I didn't see you." doesn't cut it as an excuse for a pro on pro collision. Wiki
 
OP
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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Not saying that, no...

With film shot at 24 fps, there is NATURAL motion blur. This is why movies and TV shot at 24 fps appear much more smooth than a video game at the same fps.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_blur#Animation



https://www.quora.com/Why-do-movies...rrible-at-24-fps-Is-it-because-of-motion-blur

If you don't see motion blur while watching a movie... pause it (during fast action).

I agree.:) I just making sure you were not saying that in filming TV and Movies they added motion blur to make it smooth.

Here is a fun link for everyone to play with, folks can see computer motion blur caused by still frames in motion on the monitor. Slow the objects to 200PX/S and change one object to 30FPS and you will see blur on the 30 FPS object. Link: https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

Blur.jpg
 
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Theocnoob

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Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Location
Near Toronto Canada
I went from playing overwatch at 60FPS (60FPS visible) to 140FPS (140FPS visible) on my new monitor and the difference is mind blowing. I'm actually better at the game. My eyes can definitely notice improved smoothness in the image.