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Input Lag: Adapt Vsync, Vsync, Gsync, and Free sync discussion...

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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
When your FPS drops below 60 FPS with wait for v-sync you will get stutter and lag. The solution is a AMD freesync monitor, I don't know if it will work with Mac Pro.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
There is input lag at 60hz regardless with vsync enabled. If you use nvidia vsync, that studdering (from dropping to multiples of the monitor refresh rate) is gone. Doesn't work on AMD that way. However, as you mentioned a free sync monitor would take care of that. Or gsync.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
When your FPS drops below 60 FPS with wait for v-sync you will get stutter and lag. The solution is a AMD freesync monitor, I don't know if it will work with Mac Pro.

GSync performs better on the low end than Freesync.
Also, Freesync still requires certain hardware to work, just like GSync does.
 
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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
There is input lag at 60hz regardless with vsync enabled. If you use nvidia vsync, that studdering (from dropping to multiples of the monitor refresh rate) is gone. Doesn't work on AMD that way. However, as you mentioned a free sync monitor would take care of that. Or gsync.
My monitor is 60Hz 1080p with GTX 970 by using Adaptive v sync and not allowing my FPS to drop below 60FPS at all I have 0 lag, stutter, and no frame drop in all games new and old, the games run perfect, I never had this kind of gaming before. I have been testing a lot, if I set my FPS higher than 60FPS or lower I have lag, stutter, dropped frames.

Adaptive v sync works the same as frame rate target.

Is wait for v-sync the same as Adaptive v sync or is it dropping to multiples of the monitor refresh rate?

QUOTE: Problematically, GPUs don’t render at fixed speeds. In fact, their frame rates will vary dramatically even within a single scene of a single game, based on the instantaneous load that the GPU sees. So with a fixed refresh rate, how do you get the GPU images to the screen? The first way is to simply ignore the refresh rate of the display altogether, and update the image being scanned to the display in mid cycle. This is called ‘VSync Off Mode’ and it is the default way most gamers play. The downside is that when a single refresh cycle show 2 images, a very obvious “tear line” is evident at the break, commonly referred to as screen tearing. The established solution to screen tearing is to turn VSync on, to force the GPU to delay screen updates until the display cycles to the start of a new refresh cycle. This causes stutter whenever the GPU frame rate is below the display refresh rate. And it also increases latency, which introduces input lag, the visible delay between a button being pressed and the result occurring on-screen. http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/technology


I run my GPU usage 50-75% so it's a vary stable FPS with Adaptive v sync at 60FPS, 60Hz monitor.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I know how it works, tha nks though. :)

Adaptive vsync limits the top end to your refresh rate but lets fps freely drop below that. Adaptive, in my experience, displays less input lag than regular vsync, but it's still there. Normal vsync drops fps in multiples of the refresh rate.

Higher shod the abuse input lag, your 'quote' says so (BELOW the refresh rate).

You run 50-75% because that is all your pc needs to produce 60fps (it's very btw..you are not changing states!).


You should use the quote tags/button.. it makes your quote more readable when it's quoted properly. Just highlight the text you want in quotes and hit the quote button. :)
 

GenieGOR

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
This is what I've noticed as well on older games having a computer that's over beefy wants to run more than 100 frames a second which does cause tearing because your rendering too many frames on the monitor which can't refresh fast enough. So when I turn onto v-sync it syncs the monitor to the GPU which means the GPU has to wait causing lag.
The way I was able to get around this on my mac pro with usung triple buffering, and other settings in the Amd Panel.

There any other message to limiting GPU performance on older games or even newer games if your computer is too fast?
 
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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
There is input lag at 60hz regardless with vsync enabled. If you use nvidia vsync, that studdering (from dropping to multiples of the monitor refresh rate) is gone. Doesn't work on AMD that way. However, as you mentioned a free sync monitor would take care of that. Or gsync.

My monitor is 60Hz 1080p with GTX 970 by using Adaptive v sync and not allowing my FPS to drop below 60FPS at all I have 0 lag, stutter, and no frame drop in all games new and old, the games run perfect, I never had this kind of gaming before. I have been testing a lot, if I set my FPS higher than 60FPS or lower I have lag, stutter, dropped frames.

Adaptive v sync works the same as frame rate target.

Is wait for v-sync the same as Adaptive v sync or is it dropping to multiples of the monitor refresh rate?

QUOTE: Problematically, GPUs don’t render at fixed speeds. In fact, their frame rates will vary dramatically even within a single scene of a single game, based on the instantaneous load that the GPU sees. So with a fixed refresh rate, how do you get the GPU images to the screen? The first way is to simply ignore the refresh rate of the display altogether, and update the image being scanned to the display in mid cycle. This is called ‘VSync Off Mode’ and it is the default way most gamers play. The downside is that when a single refresh cycle show 2 images, a very obvious “tear line” is evident at the break, commonly referred to as screen tearing. The established solution to screen tearing is to turn VSync on, to force the GPU to delay screen updates until the display cycles to the start of a new refresh cycle. This causes stutter whenever the GPU frame rate is below the display refresh rate. And it also increases latency, which introduces input lag, the visible delay between a button being pressed and the result occurring on-screen. http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/technology


I run my GPU usage 50-75% so it's a vary stable FPS with Adaptive v sync at 60FPS, 60Hz monitor.

I know how it works, tha nks though. :)

Adaptive vsync limits the top end to your refresh rate but lets fps freely drop below that. Adaptive, in my experience, displays less input lag than regular vsync, but it's still there. Normal vsync drops fps in multiples of the refresh rate.

Higher shod the abuse input lag, your 'quote' says so (BELOW the refresh rate).

You run 50-75% because that is all your pc needs to produce 60fps (it's very btw..you are not changing states!).


You should use the quote tags/button.. it makes your quote more readable when it's quoted properly. Just highlight the text you want in quotes and hit the quote button. :)

Move up in resolution.........
What I'm saying EarthDog, you have to match your FPS 60 near perfect to your monitor 60Hz with settings. It's better than G sync there is no poling of the monitor back to the GPU that takes a lot of time=lag. When you can do that everything has to be setup near perfect on some games I have to lower settings to achieve a solid 50-75% GPU Usage.

Through testing when the GPU reaches about 90% I have lag, stuttering, frame drop, because of the FPS downward spikes.


You would deffenty need G sync with High resolution 1440p or 144Hz monitor, unless you have SLI and the correct Graphic cards to maintain monitor refresh rate.


I can't wait till the next generation of GPU's and be able to run all my games maxed at 1080p

What app can do this?
AMD Frame Rate Target Control CCC.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I dont think 4K 120Hz exist?

@wingman - so you are saying not to enable Vsync in any form but to change in game settings to lower/raise your FPS so you are around 60 FPS? Interesting way to do it...
 

sobe

Unscathed Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
I dont think 4K 120Hz exist?

@wingman - so you are saying not to enable Vsync in any form but to change in game settings to lower/raise your FPS so you are around 60 FPS? Interesting way to do it...

It helps to alleviate input lag associated with Vsync. Though I would use MSI Afterburner's built in fps limiter.

Also for 4K + 144Hz, they are coming here soon.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/viewson...hz-4k-gaming-monitor-amd-freesync/104242.html

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...anels-mg-series-freesync-gaming-monitors.html

Im sure Acer will have one out too. There was talk of Dell having one as well.
 
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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
@wingman - so you are saying not to enable Vsync in any form but to change in game settings to lower/raise your FPS so you are around 60 FPS? Interesting way to do it...

What I'm saying is not to enable v-sync, however enable Adaptive v-sync or Frame rate target, then adjust game setting if needed to keep the 60 FPS near perfect, no dips in FPS to match the 60Hz monitor refresh rate.

From testing I have found if you keep the GPU at 50-75% usage the GPU has the room to adjust the usage of the GPU so the frame rate does not drop below 60 FPS. With doing all that I have zero lag and no stutter or frame tarring.

This method works better than G sync, with G sync the monitor has to poll back VBLANK to the GPU for the next frame to be sent late or early to adjusts the speed of the monitor=LAG.
The polling takes about 1ms, which translates to a 3 - 5% performance. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review
Also Nvidia does not show how long G sync takes to adjust the speed of the monitor, they just show polling time.
 
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wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Even with adaptive, I still get input lag. Interesting...
What is your monitor refresh rate in Hz and resolution? Are you running a solid FPS with no fluctuation in games to match your refresh rate? There is one other thing I do with my LED monitor is to run it in gaming mode, it removes post processing from the monitor= input lag.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
60Hz and I am pegged at 60 FPS with a 980Ti. It is noticeably less than regular vsync, but it is certainly still there.

My monitor doesn't have a 'gaming mode' and typically that just messes with color (warmth, etc... like theater mode, dynamic, etc) anyway, there isn't any post processing of the image done by the monitor in that respect. What monitor do you have that does such a thing?
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Wingman, please provide some evidence showing monitors with post-processing that is removed by "Game Mode".
The only displays I know of which have post-processing are TV's which benefit from a "Game Mode" by removing this post-processing.

This (no post-processing) has always been a huge selling point of monitors over TV's for gamers and computer users.
 

sobe

Unscathed Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Maybe he confused "Game Mode" with OverDrive?? Or maybe he has one of those older Samsung TV/Monitor combos?? I never tried them, I assume it offers a game mode though.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Maybe he confused "Game Mode" with OverDrive?? Or maybe he has one of those older Samsung TV/Monitor combos?? I never tried them, I assume it offers a game mode though.

Point is there are few, if any, actual monitors where there are any latency benefits from "Game Mode".