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International Space Station Experiment

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yakko

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2001
I was just thinking isn't true that in space, whilts in the shadows, the temperature is -270 C.
Perhaps we could convince NASA, (or some space tourist) to place
a system outside. It be interesting to see the benchmarks.

However, because of the vacuum of space the hard disk might have
to be connected through firewire technology or something similar.

Cheers
 

Hoot

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Twin Cities
It would be interesting to know how his fans do in a vacuum. ;D I bet Rad Hard PCs cost a pretty penny!

Hoot
 

Phil

Senior Member
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Jan 13, 2001
Location
Bolton, UK
Why would the hardisk being conected via firewire make any differance to it being in a vacuum?

And as for the cpu think, it would burn it's self out as there would be no medium to absorb the heat from the heatsink, you can ignore the amount of heat lost by radiation it would not be enough to cool the cpu.
 

Phil

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2001
Location
Bolton, UK
the ambient what? the cpu would be generating heat which the heatsink would absorb, it would start off at a low temp but because there is no medium to absorb the heat it would slowly heat up and not be able to loose heat (apart from the miniscule amount lost by radiation)
 

Fink

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
99.98% of cooling (under atmosphere) comes from transfer from the heatsink material to the air. In space, the only way to expell heat is via radiation - radiative cooling - and it is not very efficent.
 
OP
Y

yakko

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2001
Ah yes I forgot about the lack of convective cooling .
However, with no gravity what stops you from sticking a heatsink the
size of toaster onto the chip (granted the initial contact point would
need to taper to the chip size). If the surface area exposed was large
enough, then perhaps radiant loss would equal the heat generation.

Hmmm, there must be some physicist reading this board; perhaps
one of them can calculate the exposed surface area required for radiant
cooling in the vacuum of space (assume heat sink is copper, and
the power dissipated by the chip is 50 Watts).
 
W

William

Guest
don't they have some sort of water cooling rig for the external parts to help with the hot side and the cold side?
 

Daniel ~

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Location
Seattle Wa.
I'm betting this will be one lonnnnng thread":O}

Wouldn't the ambeint temps suck heat from the CPU, even with out a heatsink? I mean I produce a fair amount of heat, but woudn't last long in a deep freeze. Just asking":O}
 
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yakko

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2001
To understand the difference in conductive properties of air vs space,
consider the difference between air and water. You can stay outside
in 10 C (50 F) for several hours;however, unless you're a marathon
swimmer, you'll be become hypothermic inside of 20 minutes in
water of the same temperature.

However, radiant heat loss does occur. Consider the movie Apollo
13 during the trip back from the moon (3 days) the cabin heater
was not turned on, during this time the cabin temp. dropped to near
freezing (even with 3 people each generating about 50 watts).
Assuming the energy imparted on the sunny side of the capsule is
dissipated on the leeward side, its clear that the surface area of
the capsule was large enough to dissipate the 150 watts the crew
was generating plus the heat initially in the cabin. Finally , the
capsule was not made of copper which transfers heat well.
(Note, I'm assuming the movie accurately depicts this cabin cooling.)

Therefore, I feel that it would be possible to cool the chip through
radiant heat loss by mounting a copper heat sink the size of a toaster.
Additional surface could be obtained by fixing to the space station.


Cheers
 

Phil

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2001
Location
Bolton, UK
you put put as good a heatsink as you want and it would not be good enough, it just won't radiate enough heat, it's not like people loosing heat in space, people don't constantly generate heat the same as a processor would, you eventually cool down where as the processor will continue to heat up as it is operating and I much doubt that a heat sink could be designed to radiate heat well enough.
 
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yakko

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2001
Phil the average person constantly generates between 25 and 50
Watts, a processor constantly generates 50 to 100 Watts I don't
understand your arguement.
 

Shadow ÒÓ

Mod in Hiding
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Location
Pensacola, Florida USA
you NEED some type of convection for cooling. No question. If it's air or water or whatever. A vacuum has no (or almost no) type of "sweeping the heat away".

In air at cold temps, the body would retain heat better.

In water it would lose body heat faster (hence water cooling).

I a vacuum (such as space) there's not much to pull the heat away.
 

asmodean

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Location
Finland
About that watercooling... The water would have to be in a block, like in an atmosphere. Wouldn't the water freeze, as the block would be very cold? Just dump some water in space and it freezes to crystals, right?
I'm propably wrong on this one, though.

Possibly the best cooling solution so far has been attaching the chip to the space stations hull. You could attach some dual-palominos or 8-way SMP-P3's/P4's there a very huge amount.

The only problem I see with this whole idea is those high-speed particles & mini-meteors, as they would punch thru the mobo and other accessories like a hot knife thru butter. Propably some titanium-alloy shielding would take care of that.
 

Phil

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2001
Location
Bolton, UK
yakko (May 19, 2001 08:06 p.m.):
Phil the average person constantly generates between 25 and 50
Watts, a processor constantly generates 50 to 100 Watts I don't
understand your arguement.

all I am trying to get across here is that in space with radiation being the only way the cpu can loose heat it would not be enough, even if you could design a brilliant heatsink that somehow radiated enough of the heat off it would work better in an atmosphere where it could convect heat as well
 

speedy4500

Member
Joined
May 13, 2001
This is interesting....

To all who think that a human body would freeze in outer space: the opposite actually happens. The blood BOILS because a) the heat cannot escape, and b) the super low pressure allows liquid to boil easier. I don't know what this has to do with overclocking (maybe never use water cooling), but a Russian cosmonaut was exposed to outer space for a few seconds and this is how it is known.....stupid Russians :)
 

Phil

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2001
Location
Bolton, UK
well there you go as long as what speedy4500 is correct then humans don't loose heat for the same reason I have been stressing that a cpu wouldn't be able to keep cool
 

asmodean

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Location
Finland
Forgot that zero pressure, thanks! Ugh, you propably can't run a computer in pure space. Possibly in the outmost layers of our atmosphere?
How high is the ISS located, anyhow? Still in the atmosphere?
 

quiksilvr00

New Member
Joined
May 14, 2001
The Earth's atmosphere is quite big. The space shuttle and the ISS are both technically in the "atmosphere" of earth. Space also doesn't really have a temperature. It's both hot and cold. I believe that you need something like air to have a temperature. A medium of some sorts. Also, what happens when the orbit has you facing the sun. The chip probably would instantly be cooked. Phil Plait runs a good site, www.badastronomy.com and he's got some info about what the temperature is like in outer space and also we need to know the difference between heat and temperature. Temperature is how hot something is, and heat incorporates temperature and how well the tmperature can be transferred from one thing to another. So the actual temperature at which that chip is running doesn't matter so much as how well that temperature is tranferred off the chip to something else.
www.badastronomy.com/bitesize/heat.html

just my $.02
 
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Y

yakko

Registered
Joined
May 10, 2001
quiksilvr00 (May 22, 2001 05:15 p.m.):
.
doesn't really have a temperature. It's both hot and cold. I believe that you need something like air to have a temperature. A medium of some sorts. Also, what happens when the orbit has you facing the sun. The chip probably would instantly be cooked. Phil Plait runs a .
.
.


Hmmm, what about ether as a medium ;) To avoid cooking the chip
its always kept in the shade. I'm a little surprised no has
mentioned problems caused by ionized particles especially during
solar activity.

Phil, I'm still a little confused by your arguements. Specifically can u
explain why the cabin of Apollo 13 cooled down to near freezing,with
three astronauts in it generating a total of 100 - 150 watts, whilst
surrounded by a vacuum. Where did this 100 - 150 watts of heat
go ?