New cooling system.

[Knufire]

Several temp trading programs haven't been updated for Vishera, and with Bulldozer I believe AMD changed the way temps were reported. Finding the actual core temp isn't as easy as reading a sensor value.

 

[manu2b]

^+1

 

[Kylesims]

Alright. So, there's been a revision to the computer - Thanks to Conundrum, JackBauer, and Knufire for knocking the sense into me I should have had to begin with. I was being lazy, and I'll admit that.

The new build is looking like this, atleast so far as important for the cooling, all parts from Newegg thus far - I've dealt with them, and like their customer service.

The Coolermaster HAF-X case
A Gigabyte GA-990FX-UD7 AM3+ board
An XFX Double D HD-7870 GHz edition (subject to change, if the full cover waterblock doesn't fit. Will look into that shortly.)
And, still, the FX-8320.

I've read through a good portion of the listed 'Watercooling for beginners' links posted in the stickies, but they mostly tell me what I already found out three or four years ago when I was looking... What I need to know, are brands.

Who makes the better quality CPU/VGA blocks, radiators (I still like the RS360), and pumps? I've read reviews on individual components, but nothing that definitively says "This one is better."

I guess what I'm asking is one of two things. Either someone to build me a system based on the few criteria I have, or someone to say "Go look at X brands for X components."

Thanks in advance.

..And yes. I'm still being a little lazy. I'm ok with that. ^.^

 

[Conumdrum]

CPU block? Swiftech or Koolance 380
GPU Block? Can be tricky unless you have a reference GPU. Reference? Then Koolance.
Pump? Just one. Swiftech 35x.

AMD CPU? Okay....

 

[kyfire]

Mmmm... 33 years...

How could your CPU temp be lower than the room temp?

As evryone above stated, 1K+ for such a config is around 25% more than what you would have paid building it yourself.

You could have gotten a 8350 with a 670/7950 for this price.

Yup...33 years of involvement with computers...which makes me an old fart

And honestly I agree CPU temp shouldn't be lower than room temp....the temps I posted are those shown in Hardware monitor, Core Temp, AMD Overdrive and in my BIOS.

And again I most likely did pay more than I would have by building myself, but that was the choice I made (my money...my choice). What I got suits my current needs and gives room for future upgrades as my needs change. Unlike some I'm not worried about high bench marks or record breaking OCs, nor am I a hard core gamer but I do still play games. I needed a system that offered more punch than my old Athlon 64x system.

 

[dtrunk]

@Kylesims; i understand you're lazy, but the effort you exert right now will pay for itself in the end. I read through these post and there is more back and forth bickering then actual info from you.

what is your budget? main use for the PC? why AMD for the CPU?

I personally would not buy a $210 AM3+ board and match it with a $180 CPU. I would buy the Asrock Z77 Extreme4 or extreme6 (~$120-$140) and match that with the i5-3570k (@~$220); end price is about the same and as far as i know the i5 smokes the FX chips in everything except multitasking.

the HAF-X is huge and probably unnecessary. you could save another $50-100 here. unless you're planning multiple GPU or multiple 240/360 radiators, then you really don't need this case. I have a haf-x and you can see it in my build pictures. it now has 1x 360 rad and 2x 140 rads, but i haven't updated the pics. Overall a decent case, however the coolermaster fans are WEAK.

with the money saved and better design of your system, you might be able to afford a better GPU. plus, since planning for an AMD GPU, i think i read that the tahiti based LE cards out perform the GHZ ed cards. you should read up on this, and also be ready to OC the card and increase fan speeds/cooling.

as for water cooling, since you're of the lazy type, i'd simply buy the new swiftech all-in-one that was on display at CES and features on OC.c front page. have this mounted to the CPU and call it a day. this process (watercooling) is not something you want to be lazy about. you don't have to spend $800, but picking the right pieces and knowledge is essential. so what happens when you take this system home and have an issue, send it back, ruin the system with a drop of water? what happens if you want to expand? either way, you need to understand/know what is going on or it is simply not worth it. Sure, you can learn on the fly but at what expense? even the simple things like knowing how to bump the pump on and off and bleed a system is something you want to read about but will need patience and hands on experience to fully understand. see what i mean?

 

[EarthDog]

Just a note, he has a thread on system builds... this is for cooling, no?

 

[Kylesims]

I'm not a huge fan of Intel - Never have been. It's not something I can get over, and I've always done fine with AMD, which is the main reason I'm sticking with the 8350. According to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html, the 8350 rates up with several of the i7's.

I prefer the look of the HAF-X compared to a lot of the others. Size isn't an issue, andthe possibility of crossfiring two 7950's exists. I also expect the tower to last me several builds, as my current Antec 900 has. I find it to be a bit tight to work in, though.

I probably misspoke, when I admitted to being lazy. I'm aware of how to maintain the system.. And if/when something comes up (As I'm sure it does), I know there're a dozen stickies here that probably have the info on how to fix said issue.. Reading it all now though, will probably only confuse me and I'll have forgotten it when the issue arises anyways.

I'm not a fan of the AiO cooling systems, for the simple fact that I will want to upgrade. I'm starting with one card now, but I do plan on getting a second - When that happens, I'll end up making a second loop for the two cards, or add a second radiator to the main loop - Something I'll look into when it comes closer to getting the second card.


As far as use, it boils down to gaming. There is a lot of multitasking, in that I've been known to multibox with different games running at the same time (An example being GW2 running on one monitor, SWTOR running on another.) Or, multiboxing in the same game. I'm also an avid believer of buying more than you need, so you can grow into it. Buying for what you need now, limits you.

Other than that, I'm not sure what else info you need.... Seems to me that, one way or the other, I'm going to end up doing a watercooled system - I'm just here to get the assistance to make sure I do it right for what I want, regardless of what I need...

And yes, EarthDog is right. This thread's to focus ont he watercooling side of the build - I've got the build stuff up in the general forums, looking for advice on the hardware there.. But I've think I've pretty much settled on what I'm getting. Just need to go look up the blocks and such to fit everything.

 

[dtrunk]

then get the new Swiftech All-in-one; read up on it on the main page. conclusion; first all in one to be built from the ground up, simple, powerful, easy to expand/customize and the pump is strong enough to handle more radiator. can't beat that for $120(ish.) even if you went two gpu/blocks and more radiator, you could easily add a MCP-350/355/35x pump and more radiator; and be happy with flow rate. i personally have a 350 powering everything, some would call that underkill.

on that note, the haf-x will take a 60-65mm (ish) thick radiator up top, but usually doesn't leave enough room for (push) fans unless you go with 20mm thick 120mm fans. if you stack the 120mm fans between the case/radiator as PULL fans, you can run in to the same issue. The haf-x has the options for 120mm pull fans in place of the 200mm up top; personally i like the 120mm push and 200mm pull setup, but like i said the coolermaster fans are weak. I'd suggest upgrading the coolermaster fans to bitfenix spectre pro series.

 

[dtrunk]

ohh, and you asked about radiator options for the haf-x; this is generally what i found.

a thick 360 up top limits access to rear grommet ports and might require thinner 120mm fans. i personally don't like the layout for adding PULL fans on top (in place of the 200mm fans) as it leaves a gap between the fans/radiator. you can mod the case for a 420 to fit up top, think i even saw a 480 modded up top too.
140mm can be mounted to the rear fan, but depending on the 140mm radiator and what is mounted up top, you can run in to space issues when dealing with tubing or with the top mounted radiator.
a 240 or 280 can be laid down up front if you remove the lower drive bay and possibly the front 230mm fan. if opting for the 280, the power supply depth can be an issue.
you can mount a 180mm or 200mm upright in front by modding the lower drive bay, the 200mm usually sticks into the upper drive bay area.
you can mount a 180/200 to the side fan, usually have to move the fan outside the case; and this creates issues opening the case.
of course you can mount something out back of the 140mm exhaust fan (with a koolance style mount) or even on top the HAF-X with standoffs; but i feel that this is ugly.

I opted for a thick 360 up top, and two 140mm upright in the lower front drive bay area. the two 140mm are staggered and not an ideal setup; they provide a little extra cooling but I need to replace the crappy 230mm fan up front to get more air through them; i can furnish pictures if you need. If I could redo something, I'd buy higher speed fans and use my fan controller to lower then a little; and i'd replace all the coolermaster fans.

hope that helps.

 

[Kylesims]

Quick question, to add in to the rest.

Looking at the Swiftech Apogee HD/35x pump and block.. Seperate like that, they're about 175 direct from Swiftech. I haven't priced around yet, but that price will serve for now.

Swiftech also has a combo, called the Apogee Drive II, which is that same setup but the pump is built into the block, and it's 138, direct from Swiftech.

What kind of complications could arise from that? Is it an issue to have the res in one of the 5.25" bays, so far from the pump?

Edit: Also - Say I switched to a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146089 NZXT Switch 810 case... Am I correct in reading that that particular case will accept the RS360? It mentions having 'top 360/420mm' space for a radiator.

 

[dtrunk]

the Switch 810 appears to have > 90mm < of radiator space up top... wow, so you could ditch the smaller RS and upgrade to an RX; assuming just pull or push; assuming you can not mount the pull fans on the outside of the case. otherwise the RS would be fine with push/pull. I haven't really looked at many 810 water cooling setups so I'm not sure what is available. (I've heard a lot of good stuff about the 810 from owners.)

i believe the idea is thin radiator is for lower speed and offers decent cooling, thicker radiator would need more fan speed or push/pull but will out perform the thinner radiator when you increase fan speeds.

the kits you're looking at are a starting place for a custom system and meant to be added on to (more or less.) VS the all-in-one sort of systems which are NOT meant to be expanded (except for the new swiftech unit which was built around easy modifications.) One kit is build around a pump/cpu block combo and the other kit is built around a pump/res/radiator combo.

 

[Kylesims]

Aha. I saw where it mentioned the 90mm space up top, but wasn't sure if that meant a 90mm thick-360/420 radiator, or just a 90mm fan.

 

[Conumdrum]

Well, kinda. FIN spacing (FPI) is more of a concern. Take for example the old king of cooling, the Black Ice Xtreme (BIX). It has 30 FPI. That is a lot of fins in a small space. Takes a LOT of pressure to get it to perform well. Meaning high speed fans. It also is pretty thin. So, this rad is thin but has a very high FPI. It you dig into Martins old stuff (http://martinsliquidlab.petrastech.com/), He tests it and at the 2000++ 38mm thick delta fans (meaning LOTS AND LOTS of airflow) it can remove a LOT of heat. EDIT: I know it's 30 FPI but can't find any old data. Good link though.

Conversely, there is the PA 120.3 rad. An almost holy grail of early rad design by Marcie. (http://martinsliquidlab.petrastech.com/Thermochill-PA-120_3-Review.html

It's thicker and only 10-11 FPI. So it is good at low/medium speeds (1000-2000). More fannage than that and it don't do a lot better.
EDIT: It can't dissipate as much heat as the 'ol BIX at ANY fan speed.

Thickness AND FPI is important for cooling, but FPI is more important for heat dissipation and what fans you choose.

EDIT: Good link to keep:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157540

 

[Kylesims]

So.. an RX360 with it's 8fpi http://www.xs-pc.com/products/radiators/rx-series/rx360-triple-fan-radiator/, Or...

Something like the newer Black Ice, the Stealth? http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4...ealth_360_Radiator_-_Black.html?tl=g30c95s161

It's still pushing a 30fpi, which I take means I'll have to have it running faster to do anything. Means it'll be louder.. But, will the slower RX360 compare in cooling?

If the Black Ice is -that- much better, I can always get a controller to turn it down when I don't need it to perform..

Think I'm gonna do the Black Ice. I can mount that in the top of the case, and should be able to get a controller to slow it down when I want it to be quieter, though I doubt it's louder then my Antec 900 case now, with its 6 fans.. thing sounds like a jet engine, idling.

 

[Kylesims]

I've got my watercooling system narrowed down to the parts I want, finally. Ordering them now, actually..

- An Apogee Drive II pump/cpu block,
the Komodo 7950 GPU block from Swiftech,
an Alphacool single bay res,
and a Black Ice GT Stealth rad.
3/8" hosing, and
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...oduct_info&cPath=59_346_341&products_id=34048 compression fittings.

 

[atclaeys]

Make sure you get some good fans for those rads as noted, and don't be an idiot like me and forget your kill coil or biocide and thermal paste the first time. (That was fun going through the box of parts and realizing I forgot to click to add them...)

 

[Conumdrum]

This rad? I know you got a larger one hopefully. You got the Gen TWO or the original?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_457_667_200&products_id=35106

If the original and not GEN two it's really outdated and needs LOTS of fannage to make it work. It's a VERY old design.

Even the GEN two is 30 FPI and only begins to work well at 1500+ and UP RPMs.

 

[Kylesims]

This rad? I know you got a larger one hopefully. You got the Gen TWO or the original?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&cPath=59_457_667_200&products_id=35106

If the original and not GEN two it's really outdated and needs LOTS of fannage to make it work. It's a VERY old design.

Even the GEN two is 30 FPI and only begins to work well at 1500+ and UP RPMs.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ct_info&cPath=59_457_667_200&products_id=4541

Is the rad I got.

I didn't add my thermal paste - But we have some antec paste at work I can pick up for pretty cheap.


FML, I forgot biocide. I might be able to get some of that from a local PC shop though.. I'll have to check.

 

[Kylesims]

Edit: As far as liquid goes.. I was thinking I'd pick up a jug or two of distilled water from the corner shop, and flush the system a few times like the watercooling for beginners guide explains.

Run tap through it to clean it several times, then run distilled to clean the tap out. As good an idea as any other?