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OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
I understand that we are trying to do this manually, but I have AI tuner open and in there I do see OFFSET VOLTAGE, I also see adaptive and user.
This is what I do not understand. The core ratio is set at 52, but whilst a cinebench is being performed cpu-z shows me 49? My voltages now in AI suite are :
50 =1.296
49 =1.394v
51.96 =1.403
52.02 =1.403

50 =1.412
52 = 1.430

these guys keep changing??
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
so I put AI suite as a multiplier 50 (i forced it to adopt 50) I put the voltage offset to 1.35v USER.
I did a cinebench at 5. my temps got all the way up to 84c and my score was very low 1730.

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Now i put back ADAPTIVE VOLTAGE in ai suite. I set the core manually to 50. The score is 1848, so it went up somewhat from 1730. My temperatures (with adaptive voltage on) were MUCH MUCH LOWER 75c or so.
 

connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Are you doing at least 2-3 runs of benchmark per settings? Since 100 points is not huge you could get that discrepancy between runs because of other things, background process or whatever. Always do 2-3 runs and average them out or pick best one, otherwise you might be chasing your own tail.
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Thank you, that explains a lot.
WOW! that article on overclocking is SO WELL WRITTEN. It's so much to the point. Liquid nitrogen??????? wow, The last time i Used that was in 2002 on an Audi RS4 @500 hp, with dual modified inter coolers. Did not know you could use NOS on pc's...does make sense though
 

connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
LOL, no.

Nitrous oxide (NO2) is not the same as liquid nitrogen (LN2) and it would not make any sense to use them interchangeably. :D
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
For starters that article describes a i9-10900K which starts at 4.9? My puny little i7 starts at 3.8...it's like comparing a mini to a Porsche turbo. I need to research this. I also need to research the LN2 (thanks for explaining the difference.)

It also seems like all serious computer and overclocking people have the 3 fan AIO coolers, and not these cheap 2 fan coolers. I shall also research those

So the i9-10900K starts at 4.9 stock? So it's already overclocked? The guy is going from 4.9 to 5.2?
If the i7 10700k starts at 3.8 and goes to 5.2, Then the i9-10900K should start at 4.9 and go to 6.3?
 
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connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
LOL, no.

There is no "should", Intel is making the spec and whatever they decide goes, no "should". Also 6Ghz has been broken (think even 7Ghz was reached) but not commercially and definitely not with standard cooling methods.

There is this thing called TDP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power) and that will determine "base clock" which is mostly irrelevant, never will you see any modern processor doing only base clock unless it is cooled way way poorly. Base clocks are only in the spec so they could say a processor does so and so TDP and those are guaranteed specs but all processors will boost to their "all core boost" spec if cooled properly (any decent aftermarket cooler will do for this) so basically for our perspective "all core boost" is actually "base clock".

Also, you are reding it wrong (infographic), 10700k has base clock (spec base) of 3.8 and 10900k 3.7 since it has 2 more cores it has to lower the clock to keep the same TDP as 10700k, you are reading your base clock (spec base) and their boost clock (real base). Its confusing if youre not into it, I recently got myself 10600k and had to look up a lil how the damn boosts play with TDP ratings etc. even tho im in IT and OC for 20+ yrs., things are always changing.

View attachment 211396

My advice really is to read, read, read. And then read some more. Dont just go for the guides, they assume a lot of background knowledge most of the time, i would sugest manually finding forums and threads about OC that are similar to yours, usually there will be friendly explanations at your level of knowledge.
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
LOL, no.

There is no "should", Intel is making the spec and whatever they decide goes, no "should". Also 6Ghz has been broken (think even 7Ghz was reached) but not commercially and definitely not with standard cooling methods.

There is this thing called TDP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power) and that will determine "base clock" which is mostly irrelevant, never will you see any modern processor doing only base clock unless it is cooled way way poorly. Base clocks are only in the spec so they could say a processor does so and so TDP and those are guaranteed specs but all processors will boost to their "all core boost" spec if cooled properly (any decent aftermarket cooler will do for this) so basically for our perspective "all core boost" is actually "base clock".

Also, you are reding it wrong (infographic), 10700k has base clock (spec base) of 3.8 and 10900k 3.7 since it has 2 more cores it has to lower the clock to keep the same TDP as 10700k, you are reading your base clock (spec base) and their boost clock (real base). Its confusing if youre not into it, I recently got myself 10600k and had to look up a lil how the damn boosts play with TDP ratings etc. even tho im in IT and OC for 20+ yrs., things are always changing.

View attachment 211396

My advice really is to read, read, read. And then read some more. Dont just go for the guides, they assume a lot of background knowledge most of the time, i would sugest manually finding forums and threads about OC that are similar to yours, usually there will be friendly explanations at your level of knowledge.

Yes I will read.
Notwithstanding. There are some things that do not make sense to me.
Ai tuner is set to 5.1 with a 34% overclock. However every time I use cinebench it does the test and the clock is at 4.9 and not 5.1. I can see the real clock with cpu-z. Basically Ai tuner is full of shiat, to tell me it's at 5.1?
Ai tuner also turns off my XMP2 profile, this massively irritates me.
Cinebench keeps giving me different scores with the same settings. This makes no sense.
If i try to force a real 5 or 5.1 my temps are higher and my cinebech score is even worse.
If I try to increase voltages in Ai tuner (offset) cinebench punishes me even more by lowering the score 400 points.
I trieed to force a 5 manually with sync all cores, and got the same bad results
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Ai tuner is set to 5.1 with a 34% overclock. However every time I use cinebench it does the test and the clock is at 4.9 and not 5.1. I can see the real clock with cpu-z. Basically Ai tuner is full of shiat, to tell me it's at 5.1?
It might be set there... but what about an AVX offset? Or... is that with only two cores, that clock and all core is lower?

Ai tuner also turns off my XMP2 profile, this massively irritates me.
I think you mentioned this earlier. Did enabling it AFTER you ran the Ai Tuner allow it (and the overclock) to stay?

Cinebench keeps giving me different scores with the same settings. This makes no sense.
Again, is is throttling? What does Intel XTU say?

If i try to force a real 5 or 5.1 my temps are higher and my cinebech score is even worse.
With voltages on auto, that makes sense..... auto will auto adjust voltages too. You need to look at the details. ;)

If I try to increase voltages in Ai tuner (offset) cinebench punishes me even more by lowering the score 400 points.
I trieed to force a 5 manually with sync all cores, and got the same bad results
Is it throttling at all? What does Intel XTU say? Sorry to sound like a broken record, but, this is critical for you to look at and I think it was mentioned much earlier to check. Apologies if I missed a direct reply to that. :)
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
XTU

It might be set there... but what about an AVX offset? Or... is that with only two cores, that clock and all core is lower?

I think you mentioned this earlier. Did enabling it AFTER you ran the Ai Tuner allow it (and the overclock) to stay?

Again, is is throttling? What does Intel XTU say?

With voltages on auto, that makes sense..... auto will auto adjust voltages too. You need to look at the details. ;)

Is it throttling at all? What does Intel XTU say? Sorry to sound like a broken record, but, this is critical for you to look at and I think it was mentioned much earlier to check. Apologies if I missed a direct reply to that. :)

i just opened xtu and on the first page it says cores are set to 4.8. However if you go to advanced tuning they are set to 5.1?
I did a 5 minute stress test on 4.8 and it passed. I kept looking for power limit throttling and temp throttling but they were not present. The problem is that we are not at 5.1 at all as AI tuner claims. XTU is reading 48.

It might be set there... but what about an AVX offset? Or... is that with only two cores, that clock and all core is lower?

I do not understand AVX xtu or Ai do not have this AVX. Ai tuner does have Adaptive or user voltage, then offset voltage and OC voltage. Under that there's a whole bunch of voltage regulators but none of them are VX.

I think you mentioned this earlier. Did enabling it AFTER you ran the Ai Tuner allow it (and the overclock) to stay?
Yes I have to go back into bios and reset XMP2, then it stays.

Again, is is throttling? What does Intel XTU say?
DOES NOT THROTTLE on 4.8 or 4.9, does throttle at 5 or higher

With voltages on auto, that makes sense..... auto will auto adjust voltages too. You need to look at the details.
Do i have to go up or down? Which voltage? oFFSET or Oc voltage?

Is it throttling at all? What does Intel XTU say? Sorry to sound like a broken record, but, this is critical for you to look at and I think it was mentioned much earlier to check. Apologies if I missed a direct reply to that.
No not at 4.8-4.9
 

connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Lets make this simple, your way of giving us information will not work.

1. reset BIOS by entering it and hitting F6 which will prompt you for confirmation, confirm it and the computer will reset, dont touch BIOS any more
2. uninstall both XTU and AI suite and clear all their data then install only one you wanna use, considering your level of knowledge there might be conflicts and you setting different things in different applications which would explain a lot
3. when you pick one, make your changes and then screenshot basically every panel that application has that you touched or didnt, screenshot it and post it
4. download HWiNFO, keep it on all the time, it will give you max, low and avg values of every single parameter, you gotta watch most of them
5. with your new parameters set, HWiNFO open, run cinebench and screenshot it at near the end of the test (dont let it finish) so we see full HWiNFO (as much as you can fit on the screen
6. ????
7. profit :)D)
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Lets make this simple, your way of giving us information will not work.

1. reset BIOS by entering it and hitting F6 which will prompt you for confirmation, confirm it and the computer will reset, dont touch BIOS any more
2. uninstall both XTU and AI suite and clear all their data then install only one you wanna use, considering your level of knowledge there might be conflicts and you setting different things in different applications which would explain a lot
3. when you pick one, make your changes and then screenshot basically every panel that application has that you touched or didnt, screenshot it and post it
4. download HWiNFO, keep it on all the time, it will give you max, low and avg values of every single parameter, you gotta watch most of them
5. with your new parameters set, HWiNFO open, run cinebench and screenshot it at near the end of the test (dont let it finish) so we see full HWiNFO (as much as you can fit on the screen
6. ????
7. profit :)D)

Yes I will do the above
Just to let you know I set XTU at 49 and did a stress test and it passed HOWEVER...AI SUITE says the voltage at 49=1.332 and XTU says it's 1.326.. so they are not telling me the same.
I will uninstall them both and do the above
 

connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
This exactly is the problem, 1.332 and 1.326 are basically identical, you are hardly going to gain or lose anything with 0.006, you will get those differences all the time, they are normal and expected. Just as smaller differences in benchmarks are absolutely expected on same settings, thats why you do multiple runs. Ok, 400 points diference in cinebench should not happen but +-50 happens all the time.
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
first set of instructions
1. Reset bios f5. Took a screenshot f12
2. Uninstalled both XTU and Ai with revo uninstaller (nothing left in the registry)

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OMG how to add a screenshot? I tried attach, I tried dragging bmp file?

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when i try to upload a jpg or bmp nothing happens, just opens a page in my browser with the picture.
I tried choose file, I tried drag and drop
I tried manage attachments below?

When i upload the manager is empty?

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File Upload Manager - Manage all files that you have uploaded ?? I can't load a simple jpeg in here. I choose the file from the computer it shows in the manager, when I click upload nothing happens?

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View attachment 211398

test

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Omg. I have to upload the image in firefox because google chrome does not work in the attachment manager. Then i have to use chrome to post the pic...

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hwinfo
shows it's not 3.8 stock? How is this possible? I did an F5 and killed all the software.View attachment 211400

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cinebench @ 4.7View attachment 211402
cinebench @4.7

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It was pop up blocker that was blocking attachment manager in my chrome...GAWD...

I have an idea
how about I re-install XTU and force a 3.8 stock?
My pc is simply overclocked and it will not go away...other than that there is a round battery on my mother board. Will pulling that and replacing it make the overclock go away?

So
1. Reinstalled XTU and forced a 3.8
2. Uninstalled XTU
3. took screenshots of XTU with a forced 3.8 + Hwinfo+ cinebench +hwinfoView attachment 211403View attachment 211404View attachment 211405View attachment 211406View attachment 211407

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next steps??
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
5.1 turbo boost vs 3.8 stock

I'm late to this party but I think you are confusing your "base clock speed" of 3.8gHz with your "max or turbo speed". That chip will 'autoclock' up to 5.1gHz if conditions are met. Your chip is not stuck on an overclock. It is factory spec'ed to do this. Please forgive me if I missed something along the way.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/processors/core/i7-processors/i7-10700k.html

Z

I agree that the base clock speed is 3.8. But even after doing a bios F5 and a reboot, the clock is a fixed 4.8, so it's stuck (look at the second picture).
I removed all the software and after an f5 in bios, and the overclock still does not go away.
So I forced a 3.8 stock with XTU. So XTU overwrote whatever was making it stick at 4.8. Now I'm back at 3.8. I know there's other ways of resetting the Bios, with those jumper cables, but i'm trying to stay away from jumper cables. I do not trust myself.
By the way, REFLASHING the bios does not make the overclock go away. I tried that, and it's always stuck at 4.8 minimum with a 5.1 boost.
Got any better ideas?
 

Zuzzz

Premium Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
first set of instructions
1. Reset bios f5. Took a screenshot f12
2. Uninstalled both XTU and Ai with revo uninstaller (nothing left in the registry)

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

OMG how to add a screenshot? I tried attach, I tried dragging bmp file?

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

when i try to upload a jpg or bmp nothing happens, just opens a page in my browser with the picture.
I tried choose file, I tried drag and drop
I tried manage attachments below?

When i upload the manager is empty?

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

File Upload Manager - Manage all files that you have uploaded ?? I can't load a simple jpeg in here. I choose the file from the computer it shows in the manager, when I click upload nothing happens?

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

View attachment 211398

test

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Omg. I have to upload the image in firefox because google chrome does not work in the attachment manager. Then i have to use chrome to post the pic...

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

hwinfo
shows it's not 3.8 stock? How is this possible? I did an F5 and killed all the software.View attachment 211400

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

cinebench @ 4.7View attachment 211402
cinebench @4.7

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It was pop up blocker that was blocking attachment manager in my chrome...GAWD...

In your post your HWinfo clearly shows the chip downclocking as far as 800mHz. It was doing its job corrently. The fact it didnt always get to 5.1 is because certain criteria were not met. i.e temp work load etc. . . It seems ED was telling you the same thing. Thank you kindly

Z
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Sorry I'm a total newbie. First time building a pc and overclocking. I have not been able to perform a manual overclock in bios yet. Only used AI suite + XTU.
The whole mission here is to give me a step-by-step approach on how to do this manually without any of the Asus bloatware.
You can see the chip down clocking to 800mhz.?? I have never used Hwinfo before, all i see is that the core ratio multiplier is 4.8 (those yellow lines on the top right?).
Oh? are you saying it's not overclocked? Then why does Gpu-z tell me 4.8 also? Should it not be 3.8?
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
I just re flashed the bios to make absolutely sure I'm back to normal. NOW it's ready for a manual OC